[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

Likewise, if a manager shows absolutely zero interest in anything beyond an "I'm sorry, I won't do it again," then just as you or MissMisa would question my sincerity based on my phrasing, I would question how much the manager cares about me as a person or how committed he or she is to building a team. Even if I recognise that my assumption may not indicate the manager's intent, I am much less likely to go to him or her for help in the future, and more likely to play "cover-my-arse" when I do make a mistake. A refusal to hear me out in full, when I am doing my best to be sincere, breeds resentment.

I really don`t think that demanding a detailed explanation and plan for the future is evidence of "caring". It would feel - to me - like the manager is overstepping the bounds of a professional relationship. My personal life isn`t really any of their business. A good business team doesn`t require a friendship, and wanting to know my personal situation is hopping into friendship territory.
You seem to think of a lack of personal interest as a lack of caring - I see it as a boundary. Personal issues don`t belong in a professional team... If someone does have incredible personal issues that make it impossible for them to fulfill their position... No matter how big of a tear jerker, or how incredibly wonderful a person they are - they should be removed from the team and either moved elsewhere or given time off to recover. It`s unfair to everyone else to have a personal relationship and accept the reasons behind someone screwing up because of a personal situation.
Whatever the reason may be, the end result is the same, and even if you say that it only sounds like you`re personally judging the reasons - it is in the end down to personal whim.

I learned a lot of my managerial skills dealing with adolescents, and then later, with sailors and midshipmen in the US Navy. Now, I am a teacher. I take my responsibilities seriously in all my jobs, and when my people make mistakes, it is my duty and obligation to to know what's going on behind those mistakes and help me people deal with them as best I can. Mitigating circumstances can cause mistakes to be made more frequently. Certain factors can be introduced that can make a person more liable to make mistakes. Is this person not at fault? Of course not. Personal responsibility is of paramount importance. And I am not suggesting it is my duty to do my subordinates jobs for them. It is my duty to make sure they have tools to do their jobs. A repeated failure of my crew, my sailors, or my students is as much my fault as theirs.

I think there is a huge difference between someone in a position of teaching and guidance, and someone simply in a business relationship. I have completely different expectations for someone I am simply working with, and for someone I am responsible for. A student needs life guidance. A new employee in training needs work guidance. Someone who just happens to be on the same team or who I just have a passing work connection to should not, and it is not my place to offer them guidance.

A good answer is the truth. A better answer is the truth with a plan of action. A bad answer is a lie.

So... A good lie with a fake plan of action would be okay too, right?

If it's the truth, and if you have a plan for avoiding this in the future, then it's more than valid. I will accept it at face value, until you show me you are making this a pattern, that you are not following through with your plan of action, and can no longer be trusted.

But there is no way to confirm whether it is the truth, and whether they honestly plan to go through with the plan. Sure, you can`t know whether an "I`m sorry" is honest - but if it was a fluke event it shouldn`t really matter. What matters - and you seem to agree with this - is that it doesn`t happen again. I would pretty much do the same as you are saying here - I would accept the apology at face value, and accept the promise that it won`t happen again. If it DOES happen again, and if there is some pattern, etc... Then I would look into the issue and care about what is causing this.

Forgiveness is a bit too much of a religious term for me. "Apology accepted" is as far as I would go. You would only be counseled if you lied. That's all I meant by an answer I wouldn't like. If a student or a sailor lies to me, they're getting counseled. I can usually tell.

But you can`t always tell. There are some very good liars out there, and they can be very convincing. This is probably one of the biggest reasons I personally prefer the apology style I do. There is very little room for lying other than one that would become obvious - if they aren`t sorry and aren`t going to make sure it doesn`t happen again, it will be pretty clear to me because it probably will happen again.

The truth is valid. A lie is not. An earnest and truthful, "I can't talk about it, it's personal" is fine. If it becomes a repeat answer, then we're going to have to go into details if you want me to try to help you out and be understanding about an ongoing issue.

That the issue is being repeated is a problem. I`m talking about a one off. Things change when the problem happens over and over. And I would expect someone to tell me something in detail if it is something that will prevent them from following the agreed schedule. (As saying that it won`t happen again would be a lie on their part, I would be upset that they didn`t tell me.)

I don't see why. Shouldn't you give the person the benefit of the doubt? Don't they deserve to be taken at their word until a pattern occurs? How would you suggest to help them if you don't know how they made the error in the first place?

Actually, this is pretty close to what I am saying. I am willing to take someone`s word and give them the benefit of a doubt on the first incident. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone deserves to learn from their mistakes. The key difference is that you want to know the reasons behind that first mistake, but I am happy to take their word that they are sorry and that they won`t happen again without knowing anything deeper.
If this does repeat, well, that is different and I would ask what is going on. But until them, I would be willing to accept an apology and believe that they do intend not to do it again - regardless of the details.

Really? I admit embarrassing things all the time when I make a mistake. I believe it to be the right thing to do. I do not lie. Just the other day I screwed up and admitted, "I read the wrong line on the schedule. I'm sorry. It won't happen again. I'm color coding my calendar to make sure it doesn't." To me that was the perfect apology. Sincere, with a reason, and a plan of action. And it took all of five seconds to say aloud. If someone turned around said, "I don't care why, and I don't care about your plan to fix it," I would be shocked and offended. Clearly this guy doesn't think of me as a person, I might as well be a machine.

I was thinking something more along the lines of something much more personal and embarrassing. Reading the wrong line on a schedule is a mistake, but it wouldn`t rank in the same territory as... say... having a sudden attack of diarrhea on the train and leaking, then running home to change. Or say, having a rare fight with the spouse and them getting mad and taking the car you needed for work. Or any of the other countless situations that really are not something you want to have to explain.
I would never say something like that - but it is indeed irrelevant to me. It`s not that I don`t care. It`s the details I don`t care about.
You know you`re in the wrong? Okay.
You plan to prevent the same thing from happening again? Okay.
The whys and hows aren`t the important part. I trust people to actually make a plan of action and follow it without telling me about it.

I'm not sure I understand this. Kindness is done without obligation. An apology, both sides, indicates some sort of act that requires one. I'm not sure I would see an apology as kindness, but rather as mandatory.

I meant it as a trust related thing. I guess "kindness" wasn`t the best wording.
I don`t want to intrude into anyone`s life. I don`t want to put them on the stand for a simple mistake or problem. If they do know they`re in the wrong, and they do intend to make sure it doesn`t happen again - how they do this is up to them.
I wouldn`t want anyone to intrude into my personal life and personal affairs for a simple mistake or problem. I feel a person who accepts my honest apology and my word that it won`t happen again is going to win a lot more points in my book than someone who wants to know exactly why and exactly how I plan to do that. I would feel that I am being put on the spot, and that if I don`t have the type of answer and plan they want to hear that it will negatively effect their view of me.
I can only imagine someone else would feel similarly if I asked the same thing of them.

I think that a lot of this is a cultural thing, and that I really have lived here long enough that the whole idea of being made to defend myself seems a lot more demeaning than just ending the issue with an apology.