[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I really don`t think that demanding a detailed explanation and plan for the future is evidence of "caring". It would feel - to me - like the manager is overstepping the bounds of a professional relationship. My personal life isn`t really any of their business. A good business team doesn`t require a friendship, and wanting to know my personal situation is hopping into friendship territory.

I would disagree as to what constitutes friendship territory. This certainly would not constitute friendship territory. In fact, I would be less likely to explain myself to a friend, because a friend would know I had a good reason, or I would be apologising for not having a good reason, too.

You seem to think of a lack of personal interest as a lack of caring - I see it as a boundary. Personal issues don`t belong in a professional team... If someone does have incredible personal issues that make it impossible for them to fulfill their position... No matter how big of a tear jerker, or how incredibly wonderful a person they are - they should be removed from the team and either moved elsewhere or given time off to recover. It`s unfair to everyone else to have a personal relationship and accept the reasons behind someone screwing up because of a personal situation.

Personal issues that cause mistakes become professional considerations. And I concur, that someone should be removed if the personal issues become a pattern. The goal is to find out how they can be prevented from becoming a pattern.

Whatever the reason may be, the end result is the same, and even if you say that it only sounds like you`re personally judging the reasons - it is in the end down to personal whim.

Eventually, I must make a decision on if to remove someone, as is mentioned above. I will do this only if I think the issue is unmanageable. My people deserve the chance to work it out before I fire them.

I think there is a huge difference between someone in a position of teaching and guidance, and someone simply in a business relationship. I have completely different expectations for someone I am simply working with, and for someone I am responsible for. A student needs life guidance. A new employee in training needs work guidance. Someone who just happens to be on the same team or who I just have a passing work connection to should not, and it is not my place to offer them guidance.

I agree. Yet I am not the one who needs an apology if I am merely a coworker or a passing connection. That's what managers (or officers) are for. The manager represents the team and can take an apology for me. I should not be involved in asking for one. It isn't my job, and I am not personally offended. If I was, I would spend an awful lot of my time angry at my coworkers. All of my recent comments, and my comments below, presume I am the one who heads the team. As a simple team member, I am not going to touch an administration issue (which an apology for behavior in the workplace falls under). It's not my job, and should rightly be considered meddling by both coworker and team leader.

So... A good lie with a fake plan of action would be okay too, right?

If you're total jerk, sure. But when I find out you lied to me, blatantly, there are going to be consequences. But yes, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Just be prepared to get disciplined. If I had the power, I would probably fire you. If you were a midshipman, the honor board would kick you out for that alone. Your mistakes would be immaterial next to your lie.

But there is no way to confirm whether it is the truth, and whether they honestly plan to go through with the plan. Sure, you can`t know whether an "I`m sorry" is honest - but if it was a fluke event it shouldn`t really matter. What matters - and you seem to agree with this - is that it doesn`t happen again. I would pretty much do the same as you are saying here - I would accept the apology at face value, and accept the promise that it won`t happen again. If it DOES happen again, and if there is some pattern, etc... Then I would look into the issue and care about what is causing this.

Oh, trust me, as I am sure you know, lies about performance unravel themselves rather quickly. Better to be truthful, because you may repeat the mistake six months later, and it may be as flukey as the first time. I quite disagree that a plan of action should not be discussed immediately. I think it's only fair to show commitment to your assertion that it will not happen again.

But you can`t always tell. There are some very good liars out there, and they can be very convincing. This is probably one of the biggest reasons I personally prefer the apology style I do. There is very little room for lying other than one that would become obvious - if they aren`t sorry and aren`t going to make sure it doesn`t happen again, it will be pretty clear to me because it probably will happen again.

Not always, but as previously stated, when it does happen again, and it becomes obvious I was lied to, the hammer will fall. I take that much, much more seriously than a good worker who is seriously trying to combat a personal problem and may repeat a mistake somewhere down the line.

That the issue is being repeated is a problem. I`m talking about a one off. Things change when the problem happens over and over. And I would expect someone to tell me something in detail if it is something that will prevent them from following the agreed schedule. (As saying that it won`t happen again would be a lie on their part, I would be upset that they didn`t tell me.

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You can sum up a reason and a plan of action in two sentences, maybe even one with a subordinate clause. No more than ten to fifteen words, tops. I see how you could see it as personally prying. I don't see how you can fail to see why I do not see it that way. And I certainly don't understand the unwillingness to allow a sincere apologiser to say it.

Actually, this is pretty close to what I am saying. I am willing to take someone`s word and give them the benefit of a doubt on the first incident. Everyone makes mistakes, and everyone deserves to learn from their mistakes. The key difference is that you want to know the reasons behind that first mistake, but I am happy to take their word that they are sorry and that they won`t happen again without knowing anything deeper.
If this does repeat, well, that is different and I would ask what is going on. But until them, I would be willing to accept an apology and believe that they do intend not to do it again - regardless of the details.

Yep, that's the difference. I think that information should be included in the first apology, and I think I've probably explained why a few times now as we trade posts.

I was thinking something more along the lines of something much more personal and embarrassing. Reading the wrong line on a schedule is a mistake, but it wouldn`t rank in the same territory as... say... having a sudden attack of diarrhea on the train and leaking, then running home to change. Or say, having a rare fight with the spouse and them getting mad and taking the car you needed for work. Or any of the other countless situations that really are not something you want to have to explain.

Oh, surely you don't expect I require that much information do you? That's a whole different level than the examples I gave or what I would expect. Simply saying you were ill and needed longer than usual to recover and that it was a freak occurrence that cannot be adequately planned for would cover my requirements. As for the spouse, that would be a "family emergency" and the same reason for no plan of action would be provided. Those are not lies; they are vague, but adequately reflect the level of detail I would require.