I picked ninja but both are amazing.

Personally...
 

I like ninjas better,but it dosen't really matter to me. :marusmile:

Hm... Okay, what you said before makes a little more sense. Now I have a new question:

Other than battle-philosophy, what's the real difference between you and me as humans?

Before you answer that: I think I see what you're trying to say, but I feel that I need to question it both for my own understanding and also to force you to think about it.

You say that not fearing death for a 'damn good reason' is inhuman. I tend to agree, but that doesn't make you less human or superhuman. Everyone has their quirks, no? A man died a few years ago, eaten by a grizzly bear. He'd lived with these creatures every summer for thirteen years, completely unafraid of them. That might seem inhuman to anyone, yeah? Or any soldier throughout history who met his physical limit and kept going, still strong, in a state that to any normal person might seem beyond the limits of human ability. They were all still human. You are no different. If I cut you, you would bleed. If I killed your family, you would cry (unless you really hate them, which happens <_<; ). If I handed you a cuddly little kitten, you would smile (or sneeze).

Learned behaviours are nothing special. I learned to read and write--I wasn't born doing those things.

Next...

This may not have any bearing on the conversation (actually, I'm more interested in the above issue than this one), so read at your discression.

Morphing in the face of the enemy. Taking advantage of his weaknesses. Giving him no chance, once he has initiated conflict, to defend himself. It has no bearing on my soul. In a most literal sense, it's nothing more than me waiting for my sparring partner to step to the left when he should have stepped to the right and then striking. In a larger sense, it's battlefield tactics: flanking maneuvers, ambushes, logistic disruption, etc. In politics, this can be seen as researching the opposing candidate and exposing his faults. In debate, keeping track of the little details your opponent "fails" to address and then pressing in on those. These things have no effect on me.

In trying to become like the enemy in order to anticipate him better, that's when things become compromising. It's well known that undercover cops tend to come out in a very sad state mind as opposed to their going in.

In cases of a combatant (in any sense of the word) trying to become his enemy to defeat his enemy, the real battle is no longer 'in the ring', but in the heart. It's not an impossible fight, either. Undercover cops do recover, eventually.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that every battle a person faces will leave some kind of mark, no matter how they face it. Like the willow and the oak previously mentioned. The willow might change its shape a bit, the oak might lose a lot of branches--in either case, both live on with the signs of the wind's passing.

Just don't try to imitate the wind, 'cause the wind always dies out, eventually. (^_^;; I know that was a lame extension of the analogy, forgive me!)

Samurai. Samurais are awesome.

Go Samurai Jack!! :D

Ninja's never existed. Plain and simple. If you called a Samurai which was anyone of the noble caste) a ninja then your insulting their honor and your own.
So I choose Samurai, because at least we know they existed...

I like both..dunno ninja..samurai..ninja..samurai? XD

Samurai. :)

ok, samurai :cool:

That… probably isn’t true. I have heard some rather interesting research (I’d have to look it up again :P ) about perception. It’s an hypothesis out of quantum physics, but the gist is that our being is “holographic”, in the sense that every tiny part is exactly like the whole. This is an oversimplification, sorry T_T . The idea goes on that our bodies, being holographic, are aware of everything that goes on within no matter where it happens. This is why if you put your hand on a burner, you feel the pain instantly, even if you don’t quite react that fast. By extension, our consciousness is completely aware of the universe immediately around it, making perception a real-time deal. Theoretically, there is absolutely no delay between reception of data and interpretation of data; I see the letters appear on the screen as they appear, not microseconds after they’ve appeared.

To my knowledge, one of the things that makes this hypothesis seem more plausible is the simple fact that for chemical messengers to reach the brain from the foot, as in the standard theory, takes too long for us to avoid damaging our bodies at every given opportunity.

But that’s just perception. What you say about the heart/spirit is a little harder to quantify ;) .

Lol, I like that…. At the onset of every martial arts class I’ve yet taken, we meditate with the goal of clearing our minds so that we can better absorb what we’re taught in class and to perform closer to our highest ability. Clear the mind, as in make it empty, create a void inside your head so that it may be filled with what is important, and then begin again. From this, I understand the concept, though I never thought of trying to apply it to every breathing moment of life.

Hmm… I don’t think I agree there. I know this isn’t everyone, but if it were me in that situation, my thoughts would be, at the point of being overwhelmed, “I’m about to lose this fight—it’s time for me to retreat, recover, replan, and retry.” So I begin to retreat with the intention of trying again, maybe with a different methodology, but still with the same goal/intent. Then I see the sword and realize I have an opportunity NOW to finish what I’ve started; I don’t have to go to the trouble of replanning, now, because I can now enact my original plan with the aid of a tool.

Through it all, my methods changed, but my intentions didn’t nor did my will to see the task through. Again, this is me—other people may of course be different.

Hm, but then you say “When a Warrior says he is going to do something, he does it, or dies trying.” To this I ask, “Is there something inherently wrong with trying multiple times, if such an option exists?” Key phrase: if such an option exists.

Lol, well said. Almost defeats the purpose of this whole conversation, doesn’t it? XD

Tenchu, how are you able to follow "Bushido" when the majority of texts have not been translated into english? Surely, you will not be able to understand the true way of a warrior by only a handfull of texts.

I'm asking you this, because I truely do not believe that you are following Bushido simply by how you talk about it and how you talk in general. The way you talk implies to me and many others that you are not honourable, respectful, honest NOR are you courageous. From what I know about bushido, these are very important.

:mad: I just wrote a load of stuff and it got deleted... DAMN, I'll write it another time. But I think you misunderstand bushido and from what you're telling us, I think its a load of crap. You're simply creating paradoxes... ie, you're asking rhetorical questions without even realising.

Tenchu, you know me. I did not mean for that to sound disrespectful or for it to surprise you in anyway. In fact, I believe that was said rather kindly compared to how you speak about my religion and "way of life".

As for the disrespectfulness. Here is a perfect example. Saying something like that about a subject you obviously don't know much about is extreemly disrespectful.


As for the Japanese customs, I wasn't talking about the japanese. I was talking about Bushido. I know that Bushido means "the way of the warrior". But which definition of warrior are you talking about? Studying martial arts every single day of your life doesn't neccesarily make you a warroir. Depending on the definition of this, I can call myself a warrior. I fight on a daily basis against my inner evil and the evil of others. I train myself in ways that do not need martial arts.

If you havn't lied, then what do you call it when someone says something that isn't true. You've said some things on here that you later denied.

As for courageous. I think you are linking this to fighting again. One doesn't need to be able to smile at death to be courageous. Simple example... Bullies (sp?) are cowards, yet sometimes you speak to people in a bullies tone. ie, you sometimes speak down to people to make yourself feel good... (I don't know if you get what I mean.)

At heart, you may very well be polite. But once again, the contrary is shown by your words (sometimes).

Why do I think you misunderstand bushido. Because I do not think that "the way of the warrior" you are talking about, applies to the situation you're in, nor is it the way of the warrior that is being taught in your texts.
You seem to be a very anxious person. Eager to do things too fast and too quickly. Sometimes, you can learn more simply by sitting there. You also seem anxious to prove yourself. From the texts you have shown me, I do not believe that a warrior should be anxious to do anything and he certainly should always have self-control in every situation possible.

You're right, I don't know much about bushido, and I don't believe someone that has not read all the "required" texts can understand it either. You once told me that Bushido took centuries to write and each "master"/samurai added to it. Yet you seem to be saying that you understand the "real" meaning of bushido after only a couple of years? If enlightenment is true and isn't just a state of mind where one is so confused that he believes to be seeing truth, then I do not think that you've figured out how to reach it so quickly.


A wake up call of what I think about you? Did you believe I thought you were a perfect human? A perfect human would follow all of those things that i mentioned to a T, but i do not believe such a person exists. Everyone makes mistakes, and I am simply pointing out that you ARE human. I think you took what I said in the wrong way. You shouldn't take what I said here the wrong way. In fact, you are one of the few people that I don't look down on, on this forum. It's full of, lets say, Idiots. You on the other hand, I enjoy greatly talking to you (well, debating with you), because you seem to have a brain even if we seem to have different moral values. In short, you seem like you want to be a philosopher or at least you think the same way as a philosophor does. This is interesting and I give you much credit for that because you don't seem to just accept what you're told. You seek your own truth. (hence why I want to read your book.)

Tenchu-senpai, I'm beginning to think that you're not actually hearing what I'm saying. It doesn't matter what I say or how, somehow I just "don't understand". This seems most apparent in you telling me that I don't understand in response to my interpretation of your scenario of changing intentions.

There is a simple truth to people: if they want something badly enough, they will work towards getting it by any means necessary. Just because the methods may change from time to time, that doesn't mean that they've changed their intentions, and as long as intentions are unwavering--by your own definition--the heart is not compromised.

Read that again to make sure you actually heard it this time.

....
....
....
Done? Moving on.

I don't quite get the Christian analogy, there. What does what I said have to do with going to heaven?



Ok, maybe I'm not so sure what you're defining void as. In the english language, it means "nothingness". So let me try again to interpret the old man himself:

Musashi: "When your spirit is not in the least clouded, when the clouds of bewilderment clear away, there is the true void. "

Translates to: When there is *nothing* in the way of your judgement(loose interpretation), when there is *nothing* left for you to wonder about, then you have reached your void.

First Derivitive: When you've cleared your mind of anything that may distract you, you are ready.




For perception: What I said was all hypothetical, but at the same time it makes sense. It explains why you can create a complete organism out of a single cell (cloning). Every cell has a complete copy of the whole, and every cell is part of the whole. It would stand to reason, then, that if anything happens to one part of the whole, the rest of it is aware instantly. Again, that's why you feel the pain of having your hand on the burner instantly, even if the act of pulling your hand away takes about 200 milliseconds (What's happening here, hypothetically, is that your brain recieved the data instantaneously, but it took it however long to process what the appropriate action would be with respect to that data).

Insofar as thought goes, don't mistake a reaction for a thought. When you yank your hand from the burner, you didn't think about it, you just did it. I suppose you could loosely call that reaction a thought from what I said in the last paragraph, but, again, don't mistake reaction for actual thought. A thought is you actively, consciously processing complex information and doing all the human things of rationalizing, justifying, reasoning, etc etc. A reaction requires no active participation by you--it just happens (but can be supressed, as masochists often do).

The traditional model of nerve impulse and chemical release is far too slow. For a nerve in your hand to sense pain, release a chemical to another nerve that is part of a trail of them to the brain, which then releases another chemical to activate the next one and so on all the way to your brain would take seconds, not microseconds. By they time your brain recieved the data that your hand was being damaged, you'd have 3rd degree burns on your palm. This has even been claimed by experts who are not part of the quantum physics community (where I got my other hypothesis). They said that they couldn't figure out how those nerves worked so damn fast if that was indeed the method they used for sending information to the brain.

Since I don't presently have the benefit of living my life inside of a muay thai boxing ring, your words and recommended readings are the best option I have. I know, it's hell, isn't it? XD ^_^;;;

And you'll notice I didn't quote you--not once.

Ninjas are way better :)

Well I dunno, there should be a both option. I chose Ninjas though cos I prefer the hand to hand combat kinda thing.

I agree with this... There can be a million different types of warriors... This is why I wanna know what kind of warrior "bushido" tries to make you... First thing one must think is that being a warrior like a Samurai is impossible because there are no more battlefields for samurai these days..

Ever see the movie "Soldier"? I've been getting the impression that Bushido's ultimate goal is the same:

Train a warrior who will follow his orders without question, without fail, who is not afraid to charge into a very dangerous situation with no method of retreat, who believes himself to be invincible anyway....

Kinda like U.S. Marines (Oorah!) ^_^ . I knew there was a reason I don't want to fuck with them... They would kill me~~~~ O: ! XD

Or you could even say terrorists... They do something that will end their lives without questioning it because they believe it would be for the greater good... :rolleyes:

And no, i haven't seen that film. I'll have to check it out!...

I Don't think thats true... It's not that our brains don't recognise it... Things like sound, light etc, our brain doesn't even recieve the signals because its our ears and eyes that can't pick it up. With what you said, it makes it seem like someone that has better hearing, must have a better working brain... It's not that... Our brain simply translates it for us to understand.

there is a valid point there - no matter what your opinion of terrorists kamikaze's etc. there is no doubt that they are the most lethal type of assasin - truly if you ever got one of them after you - RUN !! LMAO !!

btw - i belive Ninja is better - i tell u why - i love samurai i love the sword but i dont believe in all that dignity and honour bs. in war.

a while ago i watched a program in which a ninja master (old guy) was being interviwed somwhere out east and he was showing all these fantastic moves that could potentially kill someone and then all of a sudden he pulled a 9mm pistol out of his top and said...."WE ADAPT" - lmao - u gotta luv it ! :D :D

If I told you I knew the answer, then I'd be lying... I have no Idea how our brain works, but I believe it decifers it because we don't even know if what I see as blue is what you see as blue... Does that make sense? ie. The colour that I see as being blue, might not be the same colour as you see being blue, but even then we still call it the same colour... :confused:

NINJA ALL THE WAY. -vote vote-

You'll have to forgive the highly technical and brain-murdering quote here...

(All emphasis mine)

Translation: Every cell in your body is aware of every other cell on a quantum level. They're all aware of what the others are doing. Because they are constantly in such rapport, transmission of information is instantaneous. This of course makes more sense than having all your cells rely on chemical messengers and electrical signals to carry messages throughout the nervous system--such a process is simply too slow.

Interpretation: Since your whole being is talking to itself in an instantaneous fashion, the very microsecond that you put your hand on a burner and damage occurs, your nervous system knows it, even if you consciously don't. You jerk your hand away to stop the damage to your system, and THEN you think about it.

Again, don't mistake awareness for consiousness. I can be aware of being watched, even if I don't consciously know of anyone in the vicinity. Playing Halo, I can react to an enemy popping out in front of me and not realize that I had an appropriate reaction until seconds later. Sparring, I block a punch and throw a counter without actually thinking about it. This is all because I am aware of what's around me as it's happening. I don't have to think about it to be aware of it. That means I agree with you that thought takes time, but thought isn't the only thing your nervous system accomplishes.

The quote that I gave is a tiny tiny portion of that paper. The whole paper is really brainy and a little difficult to follow, but I recommend you read it. Apparently, the people that did the experiments and wrote the paper are all very highly credited and credible, so I wouldn't outright dispute what they say just because you heard it from me, if I were you.

Void sounds like a very confusing thing... Perhaps it is something like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.rialian.com/rnboyd/holographic-subquantum.htm I go on from this point to explain that, while the analogy of a “hard drive” is convenient, we are not dealing with an actual physical construct, as the sub-quantum realm exists outside of space-time. I ask them to think of their individual “storage space” as “whirlpools in the river”; i.e., they have their own individual characteristics, but are “composed” of the same “substance” (again, I make clear that we are using analogy, and not speaking literally — many of these people tend to be VERY literal, as you might imagine from their professions!) as the rest of the sub-quantum realm. In other words, their own “personal” holographic storage space, rather than being “partitioned off” from the rest of the sub-quantum realm, is actually part-and-parcel of the holographic “fabric” of the sub-quantum realm. They are able to access their “data” and “programs” strictly by virtue of their physical/energetic resonant signature

In that article, he also talks about "bioelectric fields" as being the same thing as "Chi energy" or an "aura". You can read it, this one's not very long nor is it as brainy as the first article.

Some food for thought. It's still making me do mental gymnastics, so have fun XD ^_^; .

Hmm, see it sounded to me like we were talking about perception. All that stuff about how it takes time for information to go from your eyes to your brain, then to be interpreted by your brain, then for you to think about what to do about it, etc.

What you said was that our consciousness is about a second behind reality because it takes time for our consciousness to percieve, and so we can never truly experience "reality". That's incorrect. Perception is instant. We live in reality. Our minds know reality. What they do with respect to reality is what takes time.

So, yes, ordered process is necessary. Here it is: perception, reaction, analysis, reasoning, decision-making. Perceptiong being instantaneous, reaction very fast, and the rest proceeding relatively slowly.

All cells were included in his statements. Basically because you can take one cell from anywhere in the body and make a carbon-copy of the original (cloning)."Instant" means just that--the instant that something happens within your perceptive "area", you percieve it in the same instant, even if you haven't consciously noticed it. This is how those tv magic tricks where you pick a face out of a bunch of faces and the guy says which face you're thinking about work. They have a person, whose face appears in the choices, standing in the camera background where you don't really notice him, but you percieve that he's there and your consciouss mind selects the face from all the others that seems most... "near", I guess. Anyway, instant is a literal term in this instance.

And I said that I agree with you that consiouss thought takes time, but that's about all that takes time.

If you were talking about the process of analyzing, reasoning, and sorting something in your head (consciouss thought), then you should have made that more clear.

The notion that our every experience is only lived because of memory, or every perception experience because we remember experiencing it before, is ludicrous. That creates a chicken/egg paradox! "Wait, you have to have memory to have experience, but you have to have experience to have memory?!" You said something about the process of recording experiences begins in the womb. This is possible, but in the womb, you can't see anything, you don't understand what's happening in the outside world (you don't know you're in a car or that your mother is watching tv and not talking to another person).

Maybe it's just the concept is both hard to explain and hard to grasp, but so far what you've said about consciousness makes no sense....

None of what I've said or what the experts said invalidates what you're always trying so hard to explain to me. All it does is force you to reevaluate and revise. Philosophy is supposed to be self-correcting, just like science. Not that I'm saying that any of the data I presented is true--it's theoretical right now, heavily substantiated etc., but not guarenteed to be truth. So you can discard it if you wish, though I myself would not.

*sigh*

I know I'm frustrating you, Tenchu-senpai. Honestly, I don't mean to!!! I'm trying to understand what you're telling me, but I'm also trying to make sure it fits with what I understand of the world. So if you're really sick of this discussion, you may end it if you wish, but I'll be left hanging ^_^; .

Tenchu, you know, I forgot to write this earlier... If you wanna be philosophical about this... Then nothing is instantaneous anyway... Even if our brain realised things instantaneously, it didn't happen just then... It also takes time for light to bounce off objects and then to reach your eyes, it also takes time for sound to travel to your ears etc.

What I don't understand is why this is important? You do realise that things in our body and cells happen at the speed of light right? Once we touch something cold, the message gets sent to our brains at the speed of light also... So there is nothing closer to a instantaneous than something travelling at the speed of light...

Can you explain why this is relevant to Bushido. To me, this is just being philosophical and means nothing.

i would have to say ninja is based more on tactis like speed and stealth and have short equipment for easier killing and already have strategy for what

they do and since samurai would be basically a front to front fighters and are weighed down by all the clothes and armor and have swords for long

distance and in this situtation i would say ninja . Since they are both different types of groups with different skills and i guess it would depend on the type of situation they are in .

Yeah, I get it now... So it's basically saying, your body is a tool (weapon), and that you are never really living in true reality so you death should not scare you because you're never actually alive (in reality).

Lol, I like the last couple of lines... you had to add that didn't yya :mtongue:

I get what you're saying now apart from the heart/spirit thing... I don't think I could understand that unless I think of the heart and the brain having different "thoughts" per se...

Actually, I decided, I'd be a ninja .

Ninja
 

Yeah, i'd say ninja





*Ninjas Rule*

Ninja!, i like ninja, i like shuriken, and ninja’s outfit is awesome! Hehe..

:O i love the samurai clothes better
and there katana ! :rheart: :vsign:

Oh damn. So you will stab me from behind?

T_T

No, of course not

Ninja!!!!:pompoms:

...ninja of course! while samurai are skilled in swordsmanship, ninja can seriously pwn them with their jutsu & secret arts! <thinks about naruto> XD