Western bodies in japanese anime
 

:confused: Hi. I was wondering if non-Japanese anime viewers feel that most female characters (especially girls) are characterised to have 'western' bodies? I mean, to me as a native Japanese, Bishoujo (cute girls) in anime, rarely look like 'Japanese' (with big eyes, big boobs, long legs, long nose, colored hair). But they are still recognised as the Japanese since they speak japanese and have mostly japanese names. If you agree, how do you feel about Japanese-created western bodies in anime? I'm particular interested in female viewers' perspectives about female characters. But male viewers are also welcome. Yoroshiku onegai shimasu!

I can see what you are saying with some anime and manga and it's an interesting subject.

Do you know how far back the trend goes in Japanese anime and manga? I wonder if it's related to Hollywood (Los Angeles) having a big influence on the idea of the "ideal woman" worldwide. Is the "western body style" in manga only a post WWII phenomenon?

Well western bodies ain't like that, anime girl's are put to the extrem.
My perspectives... well I have nothing against it, boys also have looooong legs and it's not like every occidental men is that tall (they wish!) lol

Hmm, can't say that i have anything against cute girls with big boob, eyes and long legs.

But it is quite interesting and i would guess on the same thing as Sanchome.
But also all men is attracted to big boobs, thats just natural.

It's not, you perver. :mad:

hehe...

I actually read a notice about it a couple of years ago.
It said that men believes that men think that women with big boobs will be better mothers.

I think it was quite interesting and i will try to find it

I see you're not a feminist then? ^^

they're only drawings really, but yes I suppose they have more resemblance to westerners...

It all depends on the artist and the style of drawing he or she does. There are many Japanese characters with long legs and big breasts, as well. Often the body-type is a reflection of what kind of character she is. OUtgoing and adventurous tend to have more jiggly bodies, and the quiet and shy types might be more petite.

And the eyes cause they're not oval and ain't set closer together.

I see you're being sarcastic. Well I just think that women are more than a pretty face and a big pair of boobs, but I can understand men being attracted to them the same us girls focus on your ass. :mtongue:

pffffft. hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Anime characters don't have Western bodies.

I agree. No one has those bodies or those facial features.

barbie does???

yeah but who in their right mind wants to be barbie....
^_^

...
 

I think anime characters look kinnda like a HUGE exageration of western looking people, but I dont think thats necasarily on purpose.

I dont think its a self hating thing...Its just that anime and manga (when it first started out) was highly influenced by disney which showed characters with big eyes and western looking features. The Japanese just did they are famouse for doing...taking in things from other cultures and moderating it for there own culture. As anime and manga developed they just kept the look.

The big boobs dont bother me so much...whoever said "its only natural for guys to be attracted to large boobs" is right. Which isnt a bad thing. You can be attracted to certaint features on a female body, without disrespecting females. Its not sexcist at all.

The eyes arent big to be western looking, they are suposed to show inocense or femininty. Its like drawing a little bunny with huge eyes. Notice how in anime, woman and children ussualy have large eyes, but men ussualy have regular size eyes.

The hair dosent look western at all. Most anime characters have blue or pink or red hair. No one has hair like that, neither westerners or asians. Although I find that if the characters do have normal colored hair its usualy black.

Some people also think the REALLY strong looking guys with LOTS of muscels is from a desire to look more western...but no one looks like that either, no matter what race they are. Again I gotta say it is only natural for guys to want to look strong.

The only thing that bothers me (and I cant beleive no one has said this yet) is the fact that almost all anime characters are white and not asian...The only explenation I can think of is that in Asia lighter skin is (or used to be) a sign of being wealthy, because people with light skin are like that because work in an office all day and dont get tan, while people with darker are like that because they were working out in the feild all day. That is an explination I have heard before, but it seems like kinnda a strech to me.

Although (I dont mean to offend anyone by saying this) I do think that many Japanese and asians in general have a little bit of a complex about there asian features (probably because of hollywood, and the rest of the world's deffinition of buety). I notice that geisha's paint there face white, and they do that in Kabuki theater too (although I dont think that has anything to do with looking western because these things have been around long before western inluences made there way to Japan). Stuff like that is even done in a modern way. Notice how all over harajuku, kids have there faces painted white, some people even paint anime sized eyes around there regular eyes. Also all over asia many people get there eyes widend with surgery. I dont think this is why anime characters look western...I think it just developed that way...and I dont think asians are self hating...but I think some do have a bit of a complex about there looks. Which is just normal. People everywhere have comlex's about there looks. The media (especialy in the U.S., which is probably the most influential around the world) mainly shows young white people with big eyes, so its there fault that people feel a little bad about themselves (which they shouldnt) but even young white people with big eyes feel bad about themselves. So I dont think its self hating (in a racial way).

Wow
 

I just realize I wrote that in the form of an essay...thats almost creepy...

haha, a very good essay might i add.

^_^

Thanks :) I wish more people would reply to it...It took me a while to think about what I was gonna say and then write it out. Maybe people want to avoid this topic because I touched on to many sensative issues?

During the Pre-war period, in manga aka akahon, what I meant 'western style bodies' were rare. It's partly because female protagonists were rare, but main reasons were probably the formats most manga artists used were not like so-called story-manga. And I agree that western respresentations of female bodies influenced Japanese manga/anime artists in terms of gromourous body,long legs etc., but I kinda believe that the way in which the mixture of childishness (big eyes, cute outfits, child-like gestures) and matureness (adult body) is expressed is quite differently. For instance, characters in Miyazaki.....

Dear ILOVE JAPAN

I also think your ideas are so intriguing. Especially when you said,

>The only thing that bothers me (and I cant beleive no one has said this yet) is the fact that almost all anime characters are white and not asian...The only explenation I can think of is that in Asia lighter skin is (or used to be) a sign of being wealthy, because people with light skin are like that because work in an office all day and dont get tan, while people with darker are like that because they were working out in the feild all day. That is an explination I have heard before, but it seems like kinnda a strech to me.

I'm so interested in this because I (an average japanese) also internarised 'whiteness' by viewing 'white' characters as Japanese. As I said in my first post, as long as they speak Japanese or/and Japanese names, the characters are often recognised as 'japanese'. Yes, in reality, 'to be white' by using cosmetics was a fad in Japan. I don't want to say it's good or bad. What I am mostly concerned is how whiteness or west-ness? with racial remarks have influenced viewers perspectives and consciousness about their identity.

I'd like to hear more about your ideas and responces to my idea from other members are also more than welcome.
Thank you!

Waitasechere...Just because they have "big eyes, big boobs, long legs, long nose, colored hair" makes them western looking?

I have never noticed the comparison apart from the coloured hair and eyes, although nowadays you can dye it/get contacts etc.

Ok, i'll give you the boobs part XD, but you get quite a lot of Japanese folk with big eyes and long legs...It's just like in the west tbh, you get people over here with small eyes and short legs... Also westerners don;t naturally have blue hair or whatever. D:

Or maybe i'm missing something here? D:

Well I gotta say, it does depress me a little that many Japanese try to reject there looks. I think Japanese are a very buetiffull race of people. But I dont want to judge anyone. Whatever people need to do to make themseleves feel comfterable is fine with me.

While I dont think that its sexcist to find certain things attractive, I do think its sexcist to value how a woman looks over other things. Although, I deffinatly cant say that anime is sexcist, they do show lots of woman who are very strong, and kick ass:vsign:

I do think there are some western features that some Japanese have more then others. It just depends on a lot of things. I think all kinds of people are buetifull.

ILOVEJAPAN

you are saying a lot of things here.

First, I don't think Japanese women are generally upset that they don't have the bodies of Western women, or anime women.


To be honest, what you are trying to say in your comments isn't always clear to me...but we can talk it out.

We can't say "anime is sexist"...that's too general. There is sexist and misogynistic anime out there, but that is true with movies, TV, music, etc....

Im a westerner, and dangit I still have to meet the first woman here that is both 6ft+ and has cup-E :rolleyes:

I think they do it to attract men to watch/read their stuff, as I cannot think of any story-related-necessity for them to look that way. I doubt that it's a way for japanese to express anxiety over their own body. It's a bit like how most movies show only beautifull people? It's a fantasy world, as the artist/director you can "idealise" or shape your characters the way you want them to look...

I agree with you, girls in anime hardly ever look Japanese. I don't have a problem with it. Even some manga girls don't look Japanese.

...
 

Ok well I agree about anime being used as a fantasy world. I think the whole point is to escape reality.

Also Im not trying to make any specific points...Im just jumbeling a lot of Idea's into lots of diffrent paragraphs. I dont think this really has to do with sexcism...Im not even sure if its relevant...I just thought I should throw a few Ideas about that in somwhere. I think you would see sexcism in anime VERY rarley. I cant think of ever seeing anything sexcist in anime except hentai...and hentai is just weird like that...its a WHOLE diffrent story.

Anyway, the main point I am trying to make is that a lot of factors just came together and made anime the way it is...thats all.

Im sorry if my Idea's are a little jumbeld and confusing I will try to orginize them and make them connect in the future.

Yes, I think you got the point. I agree that characters in anime/manga (I mean fictional or not 'real' medium) tend to be represented as 'ideal' others. It's true to both male and female characters, but maybe female characters tend to be used more to embody 'ideals'. But what interested me most is that ideal bodies or features are represented as non-Japanese, non-Asian-like looking characters...... Some said, no one in anime/manga look like real people. Yes, it's true. But I'm interested more in the way the characters are constructed by borrowing features which have more western representations (double-edged eyelid, western-like profile (long nose etc.)), which still are not what average japanese have, although there are many young people who have such eyes and long nose etc. :)

what the heck is a double edged eyelid? 0_0 I was wondering, is Nordic a more appropriate description of their looks, as opposed to westerner?

No one has eyes like that o.O


Or hair like this... although, it is kinda neat ^.^

Yah ur right the hair color, i havent seen any japanese with blonde hair (only if he dyed it) i only saw japanese with black hair, now cloud from final fantasy has this blonde hair he doesn't look japanese.

I've seen a guy that looks like Hercule from DBZ

I always wondered about this topic! In my opinion, anime girls don't look Japanese. And they DO look more like a western girls. I even read in a anime magezine that the creator of Naruto purppesly made Naruto with blond hair and blue eyes to appeal to the western culture.

I always wanted to look like an anime girl, and I'm American!

And ichigoichie, I always wanted to know a Japanese girls opinion about this topic!:p

interseting
 

Its interesting to me that everyone notices anime characters have western hair and/or eyes, but no one pays attention to the the fact that they are all white! Hair/eyes cant be more noticable then skin. Im sure im not the only one who notices this! Or is that people want to avoid talking about race? Maybe its a sensative isue (?) even if it is, Im sure everyone here is mature and respectfull enough to talk about it.

the skin color isn't white on anime, on japanese people or on western people.

The "whitest" people i know are people from northern europe. and even those aren't totally white.

Of course there are Japanese people with a more tanned look but all in all their skin color is the same as most western and southeuropean people though :X

It's an interesting point though. But it also depends on the mangaka, most anime characters have a more western look. But not all manga/anime characters have big boobs and are really tall... when the mangaka puts that character next to a westerner, you can really tell the difference between the japanese and the westerner character :D

Also one of the girls I went to the beach with looks like Tolho-chan from Eureka 7

I do agree that some mangaka draw very Japanese looking characters, but you see less of that in anime.

When I say white I donr mean litteraly white like paper, only albino (sp?) people look like that. I mean cocasian.

When you said Japanese have the same color skin as western people, I gotta disagree. There is deffinataly I diffence between asian skin and western skin. Im not even sure how you couldnt see the diffence. Yes there are some white people who have tan enough skin to look asian, and some asian people who look light enough to look western, but there is deffinatly a diffrence. I know alot of Japanese celebrity's have light enough skin to look white, but they are either wearing a lot of make up, or they just pick really light skinned people to be celebritys.

hmm... asian people from thailand, indonesia, vietnam and such places have a darker tone of skin than those in japan in my oppinion.
Even so not everyone is pure white caucasian here in europe so the skin tone tends to get a bit darker, even though it isn't much.

I have a few japanese friends and their skin is about the same color as mine... only the hair is darker, of course :P

And from my time in japan pretty much everyone i saw there was about the same skin color as people here in europe, except for those overly tanned chicks that walked around with barely no clothes at all :D

(it could be that maybe i'm colorblind though ´^_^)

I couldn't care less about boobs. I don't dislike them but I never saw the interest. I much prefer a girls legs or other parts. I think it's a misconception that all men are into big tits. I don't think a lot are.

I think that while many of the girls in Japanese anime and manga have a more Western body type that not all western girls are look like that. There are very few girls who like that the ones portrayed in anime and manga. We don't all have big boobs, long legs, ect.



Alot of the girls in anime/manga are very exaggerated.
It's really hard to find a girl who looks like that.

Agreed. Manga characters are based on simplified versions of real people, although over time they may have changed a bit. IE - if you compare an older and a newer piece of manga you can see that the art style has changed also. Everyone has a different style, but manga as an art has also evolve or whatever. (Christ why am I being so tongue tied today? D: )

And haha, I have a friend who is acutally WHITE white, like zombie white. XD So she can't wear foundation or whatever because there isn;t any in her skin colour hahaha.

And about the skin thing. I think it's more to do with tone than light/darkness? Like if you compare a pale asian and a pale caucasian(sp?) asians kind of look more...Green? and Caucasians more...Pink? (Not trying to be racist here) Also the same if you look at a tanned Asian+Caucasian, the tone's are also different.

Yea...well im caucasian but I dont exactly look like it. Im really tan. One o my freinds says I look a little green, and when I thought about it I actualy kinnda agree with her. I think I see a little yellow in my comlection too.

Odviously white people arent actualy white...they are more pink/peach/white/red small amounts of all those colors mixed together.
If you said white people were white that would be like saying black people are black....odviously they arent pure black...I would say more like a dark brown colour (with some other colors mixed in)