Yeah, about the same chance as me winning the lottery. I respect your ideals but you have to admit it is nothing but wishful thinking at this point in time.

It sounds like you don't know how the UN works.

The UN charter is basically it's agenda.

Of course the UN is only as strong or as willing as the member nations that it comprises of but make no mistake. The UN was established according to these principles and that many nations violate it makes the UN imperfect.

If you remember correctly I was only ever presenting my opinion on what the would be the right thing to do when I posted that and proposing how it might be carried out.

You're right... it is wishful thinking at this point.

It's part of the reason why I can't respect the government of China.

Ronin, let me summarised what is wrong with the way you argue.

You are saying in a perfect world how YOU want things to be.

We are just telling you what the REAL world is. Somehow you just can't accept it and counter with more ideals which doens't exist.

I mean in an ideal world, communism would actually work. Equality for all.

Oh no you don't.

Don't twist this around on me...

I've been consistent from the very beginning disagreeing with various people on moral and ideological grounds.

I've made no attempt to paint a picture of reality.

Anyway I'm getting tired of this...

How about we agree to disagree on this issue from here on out.

I've said all I've wanted to say regarding the issue.

And it seems that you've said all you've wanted to.

First you implied to one of your post that UN is necessarily positively functional.

Now you said the UN is imperfect.

Sadly a hypocrite you are?

What are you yoda?

"Sadly a hypocrite you are"

I never claimed the UN was anything. All I did was mention it in a role I would like to see it perform and mention it's charter with regard to self-determination in response to those who questioned the UN's intended mission.

But even if I did say that the UN was positively functional but imperfect at the same time, how is that hypocritical?

Ronin4hire this was not directed at you. I was making a general statement to those who like to continuously bash other countries for their own moral high ground without taking a good long look at other factors. Yes i have seen you defend your beliefs regardless of culture but many here are just incapable of doing so. That old saying think outside the box is impossible for some people no sweat of my back. But no i was not aiming the statement at you.

OK im going to make a suggestion that we get this topic back on track before a mod comes a long and just locks it. I know everyone is passionate about what they believe i am the same way and i have enjoyed reading everyones arguments but i would prefer not to see another thread go the way of the dinosaur.

Ah OK thanks. :)

And yes I agree.. let's get back on topic. Though I've said all I've wanted to I would be interested if someone else brought up something so don't want this thread to close either.

How about we try to discuss something positive instead of tearing each others heads off over opinions that none of us are going to change its like fighting a battle when the enemy has the high ground, cannons pointing down at you and youre down to one regiment and low on ammo.

Out of all the countries we have discussed i would like to hear some opinions on where you think China, Japan and the US will be in 2-5 years time.

Im not asking anyone to sugar coat anything but please try not to flame or this damn cycle will start all over again.