lol, here we go again with the rudeness and dismissing of my points on the grounds of me being an idiot!:rolleyes:

If you really wanna start calling what me and Kirakira are saying shit, then you should read up on your own shit too. E.G!!!

- China did NOT invade Tibet. Tibet as an independent state was NEVER recognised by China. So unless you have your own opinion after doing your own research rather than repeating what your TV channel said, please stop making a fool of yourself.

My patience has run out.

I am well aware and open about the fact that my stance is based on my ideology. And that I have a very liberal/idealist way of looking at things.

The fact that you are oblivious that your Chinese apologist stance is one based on what I'd label a nationalist/fascist ideology makes you an idiot.

FFS! Your China apologist stance is sickening.

It's still invasion whether they recognised Tibet as a nation-state or not. The Chinese in fact term it "peaceful liberation".

Bottom line is.... they went in and took control of a piece of land which was administered by another government. That is invasion.

A piece of land which the majority of identified themselves as Tibetan (we're coming back to that self-determination thing again...)

So in effect they "peacefully liberated" Tibet from themselves. You know how ridiculuous that sounds considering that now the Chinese with their authoritarian government are the ones in power in Tibet?

You can't argue with someone who thinks they are smarter than everyone else.

Well its been fun following both sides some good points were made on both sides and although i disagree with komitsuki on a shit load of issues we agreed to disagree over PM. I disagree with kirakira points on President Obama but about Tibet some of his views do have grounds for discussion though once again i may not agree with them but the truth is the truth no matter what kind of spin you put on it. These debates are very touchy and usually end up getting so emotional you get no where.

Ronin4hire feels very strongly about Tibet and has made several valid points in terms of Tibet and i will admit if China does not want to recognize Tibet it does not have too. There is a reason why many other nations have not stepped in and tried to pressure the Chinese on Tibet. I would like to see the relations stabilize and the standard of living raise there weather it be under Chinese rule or if the Tibetans were given a choice and voted for independence.

Do i believe any nation has the right to be rules by another no. But its a lot more complicated then just saying ok Tibet your on your own. I disagree with a shit load of policies from China a shit load from the states and some from Japan but do these countries have the will to improve. Right now China nor US deserves any glorification of any kind. If you think one country is better than the other you are only fueling the fire that will keep the status quo the same many more years.

No wonder why many members here avoid Ronin4hire. I see. :rolleyes:

Um... What's wrong with loving China and its government as a westerner?

again sorta not
 

kirakira nobody is forcing China too buy US Treasury notes? The simple fact is money talks and B.S. walks. As of 2009' through the financial meltdown and beyond - China plans on purchasing US Treasury notes. Hundreds of Billions of USD $ Treasury Notes. Go check the interest rate on a USD 3yr Treasury note and it's 3% thats 1% percent return per year. Who's your daddy?

Nothing wrong with being fascinated with Chinese culture, history etc.

But to be in love with it's government because of it and to try to justify every wrong action committed by the Chinese just makes you sad.

Not to mention that sounds a little bit obsessive.

I agree... kira does have grounds for discussion on some of his points. It's a shame that those points are irrelevant when it comes to my argument and probably belong in a thread all their own. I do disagree with those points off the bat though. (This thread itself, I think has strayed from the original broader topic of a change in dynamics and potential shifting of the balance of power in the Asia Pacific region... mods?)

Many states haven't stepped in because of China's power. But in saying that many states make an issue of it whenever officials meet. The US included. It is pretty safe to say that the West dissaproves of China's occupation of Tibet.

I suppose that's the next best thing to obtaining political will.... but why should we demand anything less if we morally believe the Tibetans have that right?

It is a lot more complicated than that you're right. If Tibet was declared independent, China's responsibility as former occupier would be to transition it to independence (like what the US is supposedly doing in Iraq i.e. fixing the mess they created). Failing that the International community (i.e. the UN) would hopefully step in like they did when Timor Leste broke away from Indonesia.

I hope that's somehow not directed at me... On this forum I constantly stand up for what I think is right regardless of my affection (or lack of) for a country's culture and history. In fact I have directed criticism at all the countries you list on this website. Most recent thing that springs to mind is the whaling thread in which I declare my disgust at Japanese whaling (please... if you want to pick that up and run with it then take it to that thread). I otherwise happen to be fascinated with Japan and it's culture and am studying the language at university.

Are you nuts? You do know the US treasury is printing money like no tomorrow and committed $54Ts in more spending promises. You think they got anything in the bank?

If China stops buying treasury notes and starts selling, what do you think will happen to the US dollar and the economy? China should have never bought the T-notes in the first place (they are dellusional if they think the US can actually pay it back). Now they are in a rock and a hardplace now because:
- If they buy more T-notes, they keep the value of their previous $700B T-note investment, while propping up US's phony economy for the past decade but how long can they do this for?
- As soon as they stop, the US dollar will fall through the floor, the US economy will practically implode and China can say bye bye to $700B US demoinated T-notes

The only hope for China is for US to get a clue, stop the national debt, stop consuming on credit and start saving, producing and investing and for the Chinese themselves to stop being such tight asses and start spending.

The only question is, when will the world realise none of them needs the US to consume like maniacs and stop throwing them a line of credit forever. They all forgot the US dollar is a fiat currency, it's not backed by gold or anything since the 70s.