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nobora 06-20-2009 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736121)
Yes, because China doesn't want to see North Korea collapsing or else it will face swarms of North Korean refugee, hypothetically the worst security breech in modern Chinese history.

No, because the current military policy made by Kim Jong Il is negatively confronting China (and Russia).

It's a Catch-22 situation for China.

And why are they fighting in the first place North and south Korea that is.

komitsuki 06-20-2009 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobora (Post 736124)
And why are they fighting in the first place North and south Korea that is.

A South Korean idiot (working for the US government secretly) killed the most important South Korean politician, Kim Gu who tries to negotiate with North Korea (that was pre-1960s when North Korea wasn't "evil").

Kim Gu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kim Gu's Assassin, Ahn Doo Whi, was an American Agent - alt.politics.korea | Google Groups

Then the Korean War happened afterwards.

Not many people know this, but even within the very short years of existence of South Korea before the Korean War, South Korea was a very huge ground for Communist activity. And today South Korea hoards closet left wing activists the most in Asia.

The South Korean government can't even reconcile with some of its own citizens. This is hardly a surprise.

nobora 06-20-2009 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736131)
A South Korean idiot (working for the US government secretly) killed the most important South Korean politician, Kim Gu who tries to negotiate with North Korea (that was pre-1960s when North Korea wasn't "evil").

Kim Gu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Kim Gu's Assassin, Ahn Doo Whi, was an American Agent - alt.politics.korea | Google Groups

Then the Korean War happened afterwards.

Not many people know this, but even within the very short years of existence of South Korea before the Korean War, South Korea was a very huge ground for Communist activity. And today South Korea hoards closet left wing activists the most in Asia.

The South Korean government can't even reconcile with some of its own citizens. This is hardly a surprise.

I see.That explains alot.

komitsuki 06-20-2009 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobora (Post 736134)
I see.That explains alot.

This is the problem. People hate North Korea too much despite they don't have any good insights on pre-Korean War North and South Koreas.

nobora 06-20-2009 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736145)
This is the problem. People hate North Korea too much despite they don't have any good insights on pre-Korean War North and South Koreas.

I see. I was confused and barley nknew anything aside from what I was reading but the book made no sense. So I decided to get help

komitsuki 06-20-2009 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobora (Post 736152)
I see. I was confused and barley nknew anything aside from what I was reading but the book made no sense. So I decided to get help

Here are more shocking facts that are mind-boggling.

Jeju Uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bodo League massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And surprisingly, it was a moderate left-wing ex-South Korean president who sincerely apologized to the South Korean citizens for the decades long massacre made by an anti-Communist first president.

nobora 06-20-2009 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736166)
Here are more shocking facts that are mind-boggling.

Jeju Uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bodo League massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And surprisingly, it was a moderate left-wing ex-South Korean president who sincerely apologized to the South Korean citizens for the decades long massacre made by an anti-Communist first president.

I see.Thank you for so much Information

rison 06-20-2009 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736166)
Here are more shocking facts that are mind-boggling.

Jeju Uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bodo League massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And surprisingly, it was a moderate left-wing ex-South Korean president who sincerely apologized to the South Korean citizens for the decades long massacre made by an anti-Communist first president.

brilliant komitsuki, didntnow about all ths before.

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736090)
You know, keep repeating the same argument at the same time being extremely angry is not going to help the flow of the argument.

You are just angry from what I wrote here and from my PM responses. How about calming down instead?

You were extremely angry at me in the first place. And I don't see any reasons to talk to you seriously if you keep doing like this.

Perhaps I shouldn't take you seriously if you keep doing like this that degrades yourself.

You are the one who is ignoring my arguments at first. I'm not surprised you are still mad at me for no reasons.

How is it, by saying I'm angry does that answer the questions that where directed at you? It SEEMS like your trying to dodge the questions now.

How about some transparency.
you sent these to me, I'll leave it here for others to see who is the one that has an problem.

But I like posting PMs.

Can't swallow any good advices? Or are you just cranky?

Lighten up, Francis. Don't make too many enemies like the ancient Romans did.


Don't panic in front of criticism that you really hate. It only blinds you from answering straight.

Remember, I was used to be a person who really despise North Korea like the rest of us around the world.
Forward Message
Here's my original question to you.

What? Why do you defend North Kore so much? AND Bash America so much?

In what way was that in anger?


Kim Gu's Assassin, Ahn Doo Whi, was an American Agent - alt.politics.korea | Google Groups

that article gives no sources for us to look up, so I'm going to ask you to provide more evidence to support that Ahn worked for the USA. That said in no way did the USA authorized him to assassinate kim Gu.

This is the problem. People hate North Korea too much despite they don't have any good insights on pre-Korean War North and South Koreas.

I'm sorry, but I don't understand why the past affects what they do NOW. Germany wasn't condemned because of the past, and today isn't condemned because of the past (they since put themselves on an "good" path). Nazi Germany was condemned, and this is where we are at with North Korea.

Jeju Uprising - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bodo League massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those events don't excuse South Korea, same as the suppression of Blacks in Past America. The simple question is, do they still do it now? Unlike North Korea witch continues to be an rogue nation. Also why do you use the terms mind-boggling?


nobora rison,
This is what North Korea does. It's not about what they have done but what they continue to do.

The hidden gulag | The San Diego Union-Tribune

Daimnation!: North Korean atrocities

Revealed: the gas chamber horror of North Korea's gulag | World news | The Observer

North Korean atrocities ignored

Auschwitz Under Our Noses (washingtonpost.com)

Yale Daily News - North Korean defector describes atrocities

komitsuki 06-21-2009 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736576)
How is it, by saying I'm angry does that answer the questions that where directed at you?

Like you said before to me: you could word it better.

Quote:

It SEEMS like your trying to dodge the questions now.
I accept the bad side of North Korea and never comment about them. That's because I don't have any problems with them. I'm saying this more than once now. Drill it into your brain or don't comment it again.

I'm criticizing more than two countries equally: North Korea, South Korea, and USA.

You are circling your own arguments now. How pity of you. I suggest drop it.

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 05:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736581)
Like you said before to me: you could word it better.



I accept the bad side of North Korea and never comment about them. That's because I don't have any problems with them. I'm saying this more than once now. Drill it into your brain or don't comment it again.

I'm criticizing more than two countries equally: North Korea, South Korea, and USA.

You are circling your own arguments now. How pity of you. I suggest drop it.

umm, point out in this thread where you criticized North Korea comparable to both South and America.

That said, you still have eluded my questions pointed at you like you just eluded this one.

that article gives no sources for us to look up, so I'm going to ask you to provide more evidence to support that Ahn worked for the USA. That said in no way did the USA authorized him to assassinate kim Gu.


So are you going to answer my questions or try to "downgrade" me?

komitsuki 06-21-2009 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736587)
That said, you still have eluded my questions pointed at you like you just eluded this one.

that article gives no sources for us to look up, so I'm going to ask you to provide more evidence to support that Ahn worked for the USA. That said in no way did the USA authorized him to assassinate kim Gu.


So are you going to answer my questions or try to "downgrade" me?

Can you read university level Korean? Note that machine translation is utterly terrible for Asian languages to English.

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736589)
Can you read university level Korean? Note that machine translation is utterly terrible for Asian languages to English.

why does that have anything to do with the current topic. Unless you trying to pull "the source is in another language" deal. You do know that if there are documents that relate to Ahn "working" for the US would be in English. No I can't either.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736590)
why does that have anything to do with the current topic. Unless you trying to pull "the source is in another language" deal. You do know that if there are documents that relate to Ahn "working" for the US would be in English. No I can't either.

Because the original information about Ahn Du Hwi is published in the Korean language.

Remember. Korean-American history researchers are catered for the South Korean academia and audience, not for the American academia and audience. Can't read it? Don't think about it.

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736591)
Because the original information about Ahn Du Hwi is published in the Korean language.

Remember. Korean-American history researchers are catered for the South Korean academia and audience, not for the American academia and audience. Can't read it? Don't think about it.

Did you get the part about him "working" for the US government? I'm certain that if you could validate that it would be in English. I mean it certainly has to do with documents relating to him would be in English for our officials.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736595)
Did you get the part about him "working" for the US government? I'm certain that if you could validate that it would be in English. I mean it certainly has to do with documents relating to him would be in English for our officials.

This news article in Korean http://www.munhwa.com/news/view.html...01013125040001

The problem is that the academic paper is indeed written first in Korean. Consider that Korean to Korean summarization is less of an error.

It says that Ahn Doo-Hwi was an American agent and the American writer who wrote the report of Kim Gu's assassination perfectly admitted that Ahn Doo-Hwi was an American agent. All in Korean.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 06:14 AM

What is more scary fact for a lot of people is that South Korea before the Korean War has unusually significant left wing or Communist activities.

This is very obvious consider how the union workers in South Korea still preserves this tradition before the Korean War. Not to mention the National Security Act (NSA).

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736600)
This news article in Korean http://www.munhwa.com/news/view.html...01013125040001

The problem is that the academic paper is indeed written first in Korean. Consider that Korean to Korean summarization is less of an error.

It says that Ahn Doo-Hwi was an American agent and the American writer who wrote the report of Kim Gu's assassination perfectly admitted that Ahn Doo-Hwi was an American agent. All in Korean.

What good does that do me, when I said I couldn't read Korean and I doubt a lot of people here can too. That said, give the name of the American writer you speak of. One thing strikes me though out of what you said here.

What position or authority does this writer have to "admit"?

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736606)
What is more scary fact for a lot of people is that South Korea before the Korean War has unusually significant left wing or Communist activities.

This is very obvious consider how the union workers in South Korea still preserves this tradition before the Korean War. Not to mention the National Security Act (NSA).

What point is it to post this? America had/has people who want an communist party.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736608)
What good does that do me, when I said I couldn't read Korean and I doubt a lot of people here can too. That said, give the name of the American writer you speak of. One thing strikes me though out of what you said here.

What position or authority does this writer have to "admit"?

Major George E. Cilley, an American officer.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736609)
What point is it to post this?

Historians today still undermine that South Korea before the Korean War was a Communist paradise.

Quote:

America had/has people who want an communist party.
But not during right after WWII.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 06:57 AM

Besides, solemnclockwork, we are talking about South Korea.

When you discuss about South Korea, think like a South Korean, not American.

My previous thread talks about South Korea and you just bluntly say that "America had/has people who want an communist party.America doe that too". That sounds awkward, isn't it?

It seems that you never really read my posts sincerely in the first place.

Of course, your first post in this thread is more like an shock of indignation than a sincere question.

I don't know whether you really care for discussion or just merely harping the thread around since your questionable first post.

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736611)
Major George E. Cilley

Historians today still undermine that South Korea before the Korean War was a Communist paradise.



But not during right after WWII.

> >>The problem seems that just about everybody in South Korea claims that
> he had worked for the US "intelligence" orgs. In fact Ahn Doo Whi
> claimed he was an OSS major!<<

The reason for these false claims is to make the claimant sound more
credible and to try to shift responsibility from the individual or
political organization to someone else, generally the U.S.

> >>The question is how much Nichols and his Korean pals were involved in
> the assassination business. As you know Nichols writes in his memoirs
> that he had quite few folks snubbed out and that he was having nightmares
> about his victims.<<

Hard to say how much Nichols was involved since he was a "loose cannon" and
a lot of what he, or his organization did, was not cleared with higher
headquarters. Also, he often did things to further his standing with Rhee
and others in the Korean government that had noting to do with the 6004th
AISS's mission. There also some question about some of his "successes"
although there is no question but that he did accomplish a number of
spectacular intelligence coups.

> >.Also, Kim In Ho writes in his memoirs that he worked for a Korean
> "agent" of the US CIC in 1948-1950.<<

The only CIC unit in South Korea after June 30, 1949, was the detachment
with KMAG Headquarters in Seoul. This detachment had one or two CIC agents
with KMAG detachments at Taejon, Kwang-ju, Kangnung and Pusan. It is
likely Kim In Ho was a CIC informant and continued as an informant when
ROKA CIC assumed control when the Americans left.

taken from

Re: Kim Gu's Assassin, Ahn Doo Whi, was an American Agent

Very interesting.

South Korea though was NOT communist. Subjective, At the time there was an thing called the "red scare". In which communism exploded worldwide. Your point is about it not being right after ww2?

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736615)
Besides, solemnclockwork, we are talking about South Korea.

When you discuss about South Korea, think like a South Korean, not American.

No, because I'm not South Korean, I was not raised in the culture. What are we talking about here?

Please stop editing your posts before giving me an chance to reply.

This is your words

What is more scary fact for a lot of people is that South Korea before the Korean War has unusually significant left wing or Communist activities.

This is very obvious consider how the union workers in South Korea still preserves this tradition before the Korean War. Not to mention the National Security Act (NSA).


To which I responded

What point is it to post this? America had/has people who want an communist party

Know why I responded that way? Because nations have groups of people who think differently then the others.

the first post was an question as to why i wanted to know why in every thread you defend North Korea so much.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736616)
South Korea though was NOT communist.

But the large number of average citizens (mostly farmers and printers) were Communist-sympathizers.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736617)
No, because I'm not South Korean, I was not raised in the culture. What are we talking about here?

If you don't have any background information about pre-Korean War South Korea, you don't know very much of what you want to know.

Quote:

Your point is about it not being right after ww2?
Can you read? I said it clearly. If you compare two very different post-WWII environments, it is very hard for you to understand.

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736620)
If you don't have any background information about pre-Korean War South Korea, you don't know very much of what you want to know.

Ugh, I'm TAKING about CURRENT events. Enlighten me on what I want to know. The whole point of my posts, is North Korea does not deserve to be defended, and that you attack south and America more then attacking the North for what it has/continues to do!

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736618)
But the large number of average citizens (mostly farmers and printers) were Communist-sympathizers.

Was the government communist?

komitsuki 06-21-2009 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736617)
the first post was an question as to why i wanted to know why in every thread you defend North Korea so much.

I don't defend North Korea in the first place. I didn't comment against the huge majority of negative remarks on North Korea because I agree with them.

You, however, had taken this simple misunderstanding to a whole new level and criticize me without any reasons.

It's because people have so much misconception about South Korea and North Korea.

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736620)

Can you read? I said it clearly. If you compare two very different post-WWII environments, it is very hard for you to understand.

My point is, it doesn't matter because EVERYONE was dealing with communism after ww2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736623)
I don't defend North Korea in the first place. I didn't comment against the huge majority of negative remarks on North Korea because I agree with them.

You, however, had taken this simple misunderstanding to a whole new level and criticize me without any reasons.

It's because people have so much misconception about South Korea and North Korea.

Really, Ok I'll give you that, but why do you find it necessary to give them praise when there is an negative spoken because of what they have done/do? My point is they rightfully deserve what they get because of what they do. It also strikes as odd why in the same topics you always put negative views on south and America.

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post734202

comparing the south and saying it's as "evil" as the North.

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post726067

Saying that South Korea will be an government dictatorship.

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post726313

Saying that there was an good reason for the starvation of it's people, while also saying south is doing the same thing.

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post722404

Saying you are natural towards North Korea, and saying you have no problems with the country.

My whole point it SEEMS like you support North Korea.

mizuki9san 06-21-2009 07:46 AM

ok...ok...ok.....let stop here right...there is no use continue on and on...right guys..

komitsuki 06-21-2009 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736628)
http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post734202

comparing the south and saying it's as "evil" as the North.

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post726067

Saying that South Korea will be an government dictatorship.

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post726313

Saying that there was an good reason for the starvation of it's people, while also saying south is doing the same thing.

http://www.japanforum.com/forum/gene...tml#post722404

Saying you are natural towards North Korea, and saying you have no problems with the country.

My whole point it SEEMS like you support North Korea.

This is a typical South Korean thing. We don't like our own government that much. We always criticize them.

However, the current president Lee Myeong-bak is doing a very huge disservice to the South Korean society that we will actually thinking of impeaching him with utmost grassroot pressure.

Sorry to say but the current president, Lee Myeong-bak is perhaps the worst president South Korea ever has as of today compare to other democratically elected presidents.

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736630)
This is a typical South Korean thing. We don't like our own government that much. We always criticize them.

However, the current president Lee Myeong-bak is doing a very huge disservice to the South Korean society that we will actually thinking of impeaching him.

Sorry to say but the current president, Lee Myeong-bak is perhaps the worst president South Korea ever has as of today compare to other democratically elected presidents.

That is so much better then what you posted in those posts. In that language it shows you care about your political process.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736631)
That is so much better then what you posted in those posts. In that language it shows you care about your political process.

I said the same thing like this two months ago and a lot of people misunderstood me with some sense of fear.

It is perhaps because not everybody's familiar what is going on in South Korea and they have some unintended prejudice about particular stuffs on North or South Korea.

mizuki9san 06-21-2009 08:01 AM

I Said Knock It Off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

komitsuki 06-21-2009 08:03 AM

No, I didn't say this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736632)
I said the same thing like this two months ago and a lot of people misunderstood me with some sense of fear.

It is perhaps because not everybody's familiar what is going on in South Korea and they have some unintended prejudice about particular stuffs on North or South Korea.

with anger.

I just feel hopeless of my existance here. Oh, whatever.

I'm not angry. Just empty and bitter because of the single piece of misconception two months ago has brought this huge series of argument today.

solemnclockwork 06-21-2009 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by komitsuki (Post 736632)
I said the same thing like this two months ago and a lot of people misunderstood me with some sense of fear.

It is perhaps because not everybody's familiar what is going on in South Korea and they have some unintended prejudice about particular stuffs on North or South Korea.

I just believe everyone has to be careful with what they write down. To add, I would say my problem is the government and the like Iran my problem is with the government. I would like nothing more for North to follow in Iran footsteps right now and try to reform there government. It's an nasty situation for both the people and world to be in to deal with, more so for the Asian countries.

komitsuki 06-21-2009 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork (Post 736635)
I just believe everyone has to be careful with what they write down.

And also read carefully, of course.

Ryzorian 06-21-2009 07:52 PM

Ironically, these two bantering back and forth present an example of why the various groups involved can't get along.

Personally, I can't see it from the North or South Korean perspective because I'm an American. Conversely, they can't see it from my perspective because they aren't American. Just as everyone has thier personal take on any given situation, so too, do nations.

I do admit that the USA does tend to meddle in other nations. Sometimes it is a help and sometimes not. However, one should consider this. Haveing power to change things in a positive manner and chooseing not to use that power is just as bad as doing something harmful. America means well more often than not, it just tends to blunder into things because we tend to be bull headed.

Should America use more care in considering the perspectives and cultures of other nations? Certainly, I also don't have any illusion than when the perverbial ---- hits the fan, it's the USA everyone will be turning to for help. We end up being the bad guys if we do something, or we end up the bad guys becuase we didn't. It's just how the world works.


As to wether North and South could get together..that's up to them.

xYinniex 06-22-2009 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobora (Post 735311)
Have you guys noticed whenever TV shows Korea they always show South Korea and never North.Whats wrong?Can we go to North Korea?

I've been to South Korea and I've also been near the border of North Korea.
From what i hear, North Korea is INCREDIBLY hard to get out of once you get in, and it's not particularly open and in many ways, in comparison to south korea, it's supposed to be pretty backwards.

[I hear you don't want to go out after 6 in NK, you could easily get shot]

ozkai 06-23-2009 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xYinniex (Post 736862)
I've been to South Korea and I've also been near the border of North Korea.
From what i hear, North Korea is INCREDIBLY hard to get out of once you get in, and it's not particularly open and in many ways, in comparison to south korea, it's supposed to be pretty backwards.

[I hear you don't want to go out after 6 in NK, you could easily get shot]

I think you are right, although I belive we can go to Korea, although you are restricted what you must say and look at.

A South Korean tourist not long back was shot dead inside North Korea after straying away from the walking path. I believe she was quite old and got a little disorientated.

Not a good country to take your skateboard!


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