for my view w/ japan its because it seems to hav both the people of modern day japan and from the past all living together in its super bright and colorful world. and *drools* amazing clothes!!

I was being a little facetious but the active listener point is not landing on deaf ears. I will take it to heart and feel it definitly will present a challenge to correctly infer the type of communication being sent back.

Thanks for the reply as I will try to bear this fact in mind at all times when I travel to Japan.

It' the quality, not just the quantity, that matters you know, we have the most powdery snow in the world :p

Wait, why I'm I defending Colorado:confused: Actually, so far, the best places I've been are in Swiss/French Alps to be honest. They were huge and snow was incredible. Colorado resorts are a bit small but snow is even better. I've been to a tiny Italian local resort and their food was SUPREME. Whistler places high on the fun factor but the snow was damp. I heard Bunff is better in terms of snow, but I've never been there. I've never been to Hokkaido either. I still have a lot of places to go I guess :o

cranks I've met heaps of Americans holidaying here from Colorado, Utah and numerous other mountain states in the US. I've personally spent a whole winter in Canada in one of the snowiest regions of BC working for a heli-ski company and I can assure you that from others observations and my own experiences of skiing overseas it's pretty hard to beat Hokkaido in terms of consistently good powder snow. Sure occassionaly Colorado or Utah may get slightly drier snow than here but we're only talking about at resorts with nose bleed altitudes like 3000m+. Here you can enjoy similar quality at altitudes of less than 1000m. I could go on and on about why the snow quality here is so good in terms of the average temperatures and the predominant type of snowflakes that fall but trust me, as someone whose greatest passion in life is skiing followed closely by meteorology (my major at university), you'd be hard pressed to find better average quality and quantity snow anywhere in the world than what can be found here in Hokkaido. It's truly an awesome place. And don't just believe all those American resorts claiming to have the best or most snow. Remember most Americans wouldn't even know that Japan has ski resorts! :p

Well, I'll be suffocated with too much oxygen if I go anything below 1500m. I thought snow sports are reserved to where no trees grow, i.e. 3000m+ :mtongue:

Actually, I have a Japanese friend who goes to Hokkaido every year and yeah to tell the truth, it sounds like a great place. He loved Colorado though. Of course, I took him to the best of the best places. We are going to Whistler this winter. We'll see how he'll like there. I liked that place, they have pretty exciting setup though the snow was pretty disappointing a couple of times I was there. I'm actually more into downhill mountain biking and Whistler is like the mecca of that so I've been there several times, summer and winter. You Aussies have some of the greatest downhill mountain bikers in the world. Unfortunately Japanese mountain biking scene, especially Downhill, isn't very active I heard... Anyway, it sounds like I can have fun in Japan, if I go back :) I just need to find a job that gives me enough time off so I can screw around, but oh well. I'll find something.

Well with good english and Japanese skills you'd likely find a position here in Niseko without too many problems. Good sized expat community with quite a few Americans around so you sort of get the best of both worlds. Pay here isn't huge generally but cost of living in Hokkaido is pretty cheap. Beautiful place to live as long as you don't mind being somewhat snowbound for over 5 months of the year.

Hi dogsbody,

It may just be I've had a lot of unfortunate experiences so far, and I see that the UK has some brilliant spots to live in, but Japan just seems to attract me more. I've seen loads of documentatries and read loads on the internet about Japan, and everything I've read doesn't bother me. You could throw negatives about Japan at me, and I wouldn't change my mind.

I'm planning to go after I finish university in 2013. By then, I should have a degree in some aspect of IT, and I'll be looking around at the N2 Japanese Proficiency Test. I am deadly serious about making this work. If I go, and it doesn't work, at least I've given it a shot. As one of my favourite video games says, "Risk = Reward". lol

good luck to those who fulfil their dreams and ambitions to go to Japan.

After all: If you don't try you would always regret. So especially when young and free of any ties-- Give it a go.


even moving to a new part of ones own country can be illuminating.

You have to do it to Know what it feels like. Be prepared for all eventualities.

We all can visit places-- doesn't mean we have to live in them unless we want to.

Have fun.


PS: Have any of you read the book by Peter Carey-- about the time he took his son to Japan especially to meet the animators of anime etc.


Amazon.com: Wrong About Japan: A Father's Journey with His Son (9781400043118): Peter Carey: Books: Reviews, Prices & more


I think some of you would enjoy and possibly learn a little more. I managed to get it from my library-- definitely recommend it to Manga/ anime fans.

PPS: I see the reviews are not good, nonetheless I believe some people would be interested. worth borrowing from a library at least for those interested in ANIME/Manga.

I might check that out. Thanks, dogsbody :vsign:

To be honest, I'm attracted by the ambiance of the setting... which is subsequently contributed by the culture and people thereof. I somewhat yearn to taste the aroma of authentic, hand-cooked ramen, sitting in some old restaurant humbly located in a shabby alleyway, sheltering a small group of friendly people, on a rainy day... [lol]. I had a brief chance to visit Japan before I could develop many delusions or misconceptions -- though I wouldn't be confident enough say I had none. There's definitely many aspects to any one country, and I certainly didn't get to explore all of them during my stay in Japan.

Some people seem to have a remarkably inaccurate view of the country, but with those people, generally, I would assume it wasn't an issue exclusive only to Japan; perhaps to various other facets of life, as well. To me, it is, to a degree, relative to a psychological matter -- not to imply one that is untypical, because I know I'm easily prone to it myself. A lack of maturity?

Seems there are some real "elitists" here that are judging who is fit to go to Japan and who is not.

Some of these "elitists" haven't even been to Japan yet!

Get over yourselves. If someone is interested in the culture then the best way that they can get a real dose of the culture and get rid of any "delusions" is to let them experience it first hand.

They might love it, feel so-so about it, or hate it but the question I believe was what attracts young people (young btw? My 82 year old grandpa calls 50 year olds "kids" so young is relative.) It wasn't who is acceptable to go to a new country and experience the culture and who cannot because anonymous people online in a Japanese forum deemed you a "poser".

:mtongue:

Well said, HikoSeijuro :)

Judging who is fit or discouraging anyone from going to Japan? I don`t think that is what anyone intended.

Visiting a country to experience it is the best way to dispel any misconceptions. The thing is, there are a LOT of people who don`t want to visit Japan. They want to LIVE there. This is where the judgement and discouragement comes into play.

I would not consider someone fit to decide to MOVE to another country if they have never even so much as visited it. I will actively continue to discourage people from making that huge life decision without so much as taking the simple first step of visiting the country first.

If someone has been in Japan for a significant amount of time to actually know what life would be like (as in more than a few weeks of tourism...), then there is no reason to say anything if they decide they want to move to Japan.

I would do the same for anyone who is saying that they would do anything to move to some foreign place they have had little or no real exposure to. It doesn`t matter whether I`ve been to that country or not. If someone tells me that they want to move to, say, Paris or Rome - my first reaction would be to ask if they`ve ever been there and if they`ve experienced real life there (not tourism). If they have not, I would strongly discourage them from trying to move - instead suggesting shorter term stays.

There is nothing elitist about it. It`s common sense, in my opinion.

I have to echo nyrorin's message. Its a case of needing to spend some time in the country before making life changing decisions to Move there without having some experience of practical every day life in any country.

So many have posted here that they love anime and manga and they want to move to Japan.


Sample the place first is the best way surely before literally Moving IN permanently.

sorry if the question appears to be elitist--Really its about practicalities.

The general vibe I'm getting off these forums, is people basically implying "Oh, Japan is a metropolice of hard, working people. Anyone trying to get in will fail. Don't bother trying. Here's the truth.... bla, bla, bla......". Now, I'm NOT saying everybody says that, but it just the feeling I get. I understand that some people need a reality check, but come on. I think if people go, and it turns out to be the worst experience ever, at least they'll then know. But for me, I will enjoy it, or find multiple elements I enjoy. Or else I've wasted my whole teenage life (and I'm 20 now). lol :mtongue:

*laughs* That's it! You kind of want to go to soak up the atmosphere and get inspired. It's like visiting France, whenever I'm in the middle of planning to go it's always one scene rattling around in my head a tiny town; the cafe tables out in the square in the early morning, drinking chocolat chaud and eating fresh croissant from the boulangerie, watching the stray cats slink out into the sunlight to bathe and old boys playing petanque.

Maybe we're just modern dumb romantics?

These kinds of topics make me rage, so I'm just going to third Nyororin and Dogsbody's opinion before I say something that gets me banned, cause that's no bueno.

I understand visiting is better first, to experience the country, but what about if you were to say, move cities in your own country. Do you have to visit the city first to see if you like it? And what if you can't afford to visit? You go, you like it, you want to live there, but can't afford to go back again. Loads of hypothetical scenario's can occur. I agree it is wrong to want to live there purely because of Anime and Manga. If anything, it is the other way round for me. Most people are drawn to Japan because of these. Whereas, I was drawn to these because of Japan.

I actually fully agree with you on this. It is better generally to visit a country before moving, but for some people it's just not practical or possible. I disagree with some of the other members so far who have said that one really must visit before living, because although it is admitedly a better option it isn't always for the best.

In regards to Japan in specific it's a very expensive country to visit! I know that most people I know would be using up all their savings to go for simply a holiday, and if they loved it and adored it then going back to live would then take at least an extra year or two to save back up again, and in the meantime they would then have to get a job, find a place to live in their own country, and the commitments and responsibilities as you try and save to go back just pile up, making it harder to leave as you've - by then - settled down where you are :P It's a lot easier to go straight from univerisity to Japan to live, and no it might not be the best option, but the visas don't last forever and neither do job contracts, if - at the end of a year - you did hate it then you could always go back home. Just because you move somewhere doesn't mean you have to live there forever.

nobody is saying anyone should not go to Japan or anywhere else for that matter.




I seem to have upset some of you with the question?

Maybe wings woul dlike to tell us why and how his love of Japan became a reality now that he is staying there.

Is he a student. just how easy is it to actually Move there permanently?

Many seem to go via the Jet programme. If that is a way to get to know the country that seems a start doesn't it.


Those who still live there after the initial Longing-- Is it the place you dreamed about.


why do you stay there? Is it the People-- because in the end it is PEOPLE who make a place.


some here have complained about their own hometown-- everything wrong with UK-- so they dream about living in Japan.

Yet how many also dream about going to UK or other countries that may prove to be a shangrila, UK is no shangrila yet constantly people from other countries are desperate to live here.

Surely one needs to travel and experience life in different places.

I say good luck to all those who long to live in Japan-- but surely not because they love the ANIME and Manga.

shouldn't anyone ask questions about motives? what is so wrong with asking WHY?


I was brought up in the care system and never had a choice of where I lived

I had no family to turn to at all.

Many children from UK were migrated abroad to places such as Australia, Rhodesia Canada etc. They had no choice whatsoever.

some of the children were only three years of age.

many had awful time with nobody to care about them at all.


Anyway if I have upset some of you I apologise-- but sometimes one needs to think about why?


If it only makes a person think seriously of their motives surely that is a good thing.

good luck to all of you.

Thanks for agreeing, RobinMask. I do see the point in visiting first, but as I said, and you put into beter words, sometimes it's just now possible. I'm planning to go after I've finished university. While at university, I'm hoping to rent out student accomodation. When I'm not living there, I'll be at home with my mum, where I am now. It would make more sense to jump straight in with both feet, as it's sort of a new start. A clean slate, so to speak. I have chosen to study IT, which is an area of employment expecting a boom in jobs in the next 3-7 years, so employment shouldn't be too much of an issue, as long as I pass the N2 Proficiency Test. lol. Most people, however, don't have a certain area of expertise, if you will. So what employment are they going to get? It is a difficult topic, in which areas you'll agree, yet others you'll disagree. If well planned out, living in Japan can work. If not, I reckon a lot of people are in for a tough time. I'm hoping, fingers and toes crossed, that it works out for me. It will mean my daydreaming of certain things, will not be wasted. :ywave:

(PS. Don't know where I was going with that. Just my own feelings to the subject :D)

EDIT: It was raining and windy this morning in Scotland. I said "Even the country's weather is s****". I think it's starting to get to me. lol

Dreams

* You see things and say, 'Why?", but I dream things and say, 'Why not?
George Bernard Shaw

I would just like to point out that I do not find travelling in Japan to be all that expensive at all. You think Japan is expensive? Then I wouldn't advise going to Australia anytime soon. I reckon Japan is cheap as chips compared to there. You can travel throughout Japan very cheaply if you want to and know how.

I'd also suggest that people should look at travelling to many places before deciding on a place to live, assuming that is you want to leave your own country. I travelled close to 15 other countries before finding my home here in Japan. One of the greatest benefits of my move to Japan was that everything is so cheap here. The big purchases in life like house and cars are just so much cheaper than in Australia. Sure I don't live in Tokyo (thank god!) which is more expensive than where I am but even Tokyo now isn't that expensive when compared to other major cities in the world. Remember Japan's economy has been deflating for most of the last 15 years. It may well have been expensive once, I don't consider it still is.

A year studying or working in a country is an extended visit. Long enough that it`s definitely better to have had a visit under your belt before committing to, but I do agree that if it`s only a year or so you can just go home at the end.

But that`s not really what I`m talking about when I refer to people who want to move to / live in Japan. There are plenty of people who want to work in / study in Japan for totally valid reasons. There is a huge difference from the type that confuse me, as there is a plan of sorts involving (at the very least) work or study - things that can lead to a legal stay in Japan. That`s fine. That`s a great way to experience the world.

When I talk about people who need to visit Japan before deciding to move there, I`m talking mostly about the nearly constant stream of users who want to find a way to live in Japan - ANY way - without going through the normal processes for immigration. Those who say they hate their home country and want to live in Japan forever, even if they have to live in a box on the street or hide from immigration doing under-the-table illegal work to survive. Or those who say they just want to move to Japan and will not accept anyone telling them that you will need a visa.

I find it absolutely stunning how many people seem to just think you can up and move to another country. That it`s along the lines of moving to another city.

It isn`t. You can`t just move. There are a lot of hoops you have to go through, a lot of red tape, a lot of requirements that have to be filled.

If you`re going to base your entire life around the expectation of moving to some other country ASAP - at the very least visit the place once... If you don`t and find that it isn`t what you expected, you`re not going to have much of a life to fall back on afterward.

It's funny, the EXACT same debates are often seen on Japanese forums for English learners.

I say, what's wrong with going to America just because you like Nirvana or Greenday or Jimi Hendrix? Yeah, some people aren't up to living in a foreign country. They may get disillusioned. But still, if they "tried" and "made effort" and at least got into the country and lived the dream, that's a million times better than not doing anything. I lived in the UK for 5 years and while I respect the culture and I often bash Japanese people who say bad things about her (what do they know?), it wasn't a place for me. But regardless, I think the time I spent there was invaluable.

This is so true. There seems to be an incredible amount of naivete by some of the younger peolple out there about what it takes to be able to live in another country. You can't just rock up at the airport with bright eyed wonder and tell immigration you love Japan and they'll be happy to let you stay! :mtongue:

Sorry for buttin in, but I'd like to show you my point of view.
I never liked Japan before, I wasn't interested in its culture either. It was like I knew of its existence, but It didn't attract me. Many people say that liking Japan because of dramas and animes is stupid, but for me, it was a way to get to know Japan closer. That's why i really appreciate them.
Of course, its my big dream to visit Japan someday, but I don't think that 'oh, I'm so excited, I'll move to Japan and finally see japanese life- like in dramas!'.
Not everyone thinks like that. For me, moving to another country is a very big deal and I'm aware of its consequences. I'm learning Japanese now, I live in a small town so I don't have a tutor, but I believe that when I'll go to university I'll find one. I read a lot about japanese culture and life there, and there are many nice blogs about it. Thus, having nly 15 yrs, I can know Japan little by little. I know that my fascination with this country can fade away someday, so I'll try hard not to let this happen.
btw-sorry for my english, i'm still learnin ;o

Pretty good for "just learning"

As another young adult from the UK I can totally relate with you on that. There's something inherently different about Asian culture and personality (and not just Japan, but Asia in general). I had this discussion with a few of my Asian friends when I went to China this summer. In Asia we've noticed people to be more friendly, generous, mindful of others and well-behaved. In the West everything seems to center around oneself. People tend to be selfish, bitchy (which we noticed even more with the Western friends who came with us to China when we could clearly see the contrast) and bratty.

You only need to compare an Asian classroom to a British classroom to see what I mean. Asian classrooms are generally full of attentive kids who at worst would be asleep, while Western classrooms it wouldn't be unusual to see a teacher crying and having a breakdown at least once in the year because the students are tormenting them.

Also simple differences in culture reflect this. In the UK, evening entertainment is getting absolutely paralytically drunk for 90% of students. In Asia, while drinking does form a part of fun, there's tons of other stuff they do too. We have a seriously strong drinking culture and it results in many of us having a very boorish attitude. The shouting, angry, drunk who will happily beat up a woman is not an uncommon sight; particularly in university towns (actually I have a whole house of them next door to me). Time I've spent in Asia has helped me to get away from all that. It was really relaxing for the soul (sounds cheesy but it's true).

And Jambo I'm sure you can agree with me on this one word that makes UK life and reputation a dreadful state....."Chavs". Enough said really!

I realise there's always going to be exceptions to these rules, but my comments are on overall differences in culture, personality and attitude.

As for why I'm interested in Japan? Well it just happened to be the first Asian country I started reading about. In this respect, I haven't just limited myself to Japan saying that I absolutely will move there. Instead I keep my options open and until I've fully explored most of the Asian countries, I don't intend to make a decision about where I'd want to move. But it does help Japan's case that Japanese is my strongest Asian language and that I have a few (some wealthy) contacts as well as family members (married in, not blood) that could help make a transition easier. Not to mention my uncle lived there for a few years so I have someone close that can give his two cents and advise me on the ins and outs.

@Saradus - Thanks for agreeing :) Yeah, I've not really studied it in depth, but I figured Asian people seem more 'civilised' than British people. Chavs (or Neds, as they're called in Scotland) are an absolute nightmare.

Probably the best example of that was this one:
"No, i don't need a visa, I'm American! I know because I went to Hawaii and they just put a stamp in my passport at the boarder. Japan must be the same!"

*laughs*

Hmm, that's pretty interesting. What sort of views of the UK have you come across?

excepting the hostile, crowd-barging cheats who spit in the street everywhere and hassle people? I met some lovely people in asia; I also met some really, staggeringly rude people. I could say the exact same about the UK.

Possibly because in some countries, misbehaving students get smacked (by teachers or parents when they get home). Or attend school as a privilege, not a right. And there are some run-down schools where the students are just as bad, or worse than in the UK. I'm not saying you're wrong or don't have a point or anything, but just...sweeping generalizations? There's parts of a country visitors don't get exposed to.

doesn't it boil down to people are just people wherever you go.


Here in UK no two towns are identical. A lot does depend where you live of course. In High rise flats or nice bungalow on estates-- in big cities or small ones. In the country which is different from towns or cities.


Certain areas gain certain reputations.

We have neighbours from hell- or wonderful neighbours. we cannot tar everybody with the same brush. So much depends on individual circumstances.


The Old testament tells us SPare the Rod, Spoil the child. I believe we are all wild animals when we are born and we have to quickly learn our boundaries.

We need discipline-- all of us do------ we have to obey certain rules.


Since parents have been told they must never smack their child-- and schools are not allowed to really discipline children-- where do we go? does anyone watch "SUPER NANNY"?

my goodness when I see the way some of those children behave-- they are often out of control-- why? because of very poor parenting-- parents who give in to a child every time it has a tantrum. can ruin that child for good. children need guidance and to know their own boundaries. Super Nanny uses the "Naughty Step" to teach a child it will have to stay there until they say sorry and realise what they have done wrong.

Drugs are a problem here. Alcohol is too easily available--


Times have definitely changed here----not always for the good either.

I believe children need to learn respect and to be encourraged in good positive ways when they are young so they have good self esteem and not feel the need to go out vandalising or even killing as happens now. So many things Have changed without a doubt. I often wonder what country I am living in now. But there are plenty of wonderful things about our country. I love England very much indeed. Its just the crazy laws that caused so many of the troubles and of course especially housing. we are a very small country, we are having to learn to assimilate people from around the world. They in their way also mean change to our cultures.

I am a war child and we jolly well appreciated every little thing we had.


Perhaps some psychologists could tell us how to put things right because we are in amess.But not everything is bad at all.

On the whole most people are decent people if they get a good start in life and love and a feeling of self worth.


It seems to me that the more we have the more we want. Never satisfied.


We should not generalise-- thinking all the people in one country are better than those in another countries.


Its not so.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to encapsulate an entire population into one description. However, from all the people I've met in this country, and all the people I've met in other countries; these are the overall personalities and attitudes I have formed.

Bear in mind, I am also referring solely to my generation. So my opinions aren't of the older generation, only people my age (early 20s) and younger. On the contrary, I feel that the young generation in Asia have precisely the qualities that our western older generation have and that our younger generation has lost. Discipline and respect.

My opinions aren't restricted to just one town either. This is country-wide experience. I've lived in small remote villages, large cities, council estates, cul-de-sacs and student towns. Everywhere I go, respectful youth are a rarity. Sure they exist, but they're in the minority these days...

When I think about it, there weren't many occasions where they specifically targeted British. It's usually more about the westerners and Anglo Saxons.

One thing I remember though is some people particularly mentioned Britain and said British were anti-Japanese in several occasions , and they usually had a pretty critical and sometimes one sided British newspaper article to back it up. My response was that British media criticize everyone and everything, not just Japanese.

I see 10 times more complaints about the culinary art but most of the time it's more of a jest.

Most people can barely run their own lives but have no problem helping to try to run yours.

Think how many people came to the United States without ever visiting first.

I do think it's great though that some people take the time and effort to really explain to someone who hasn't lived in another country (or visited) the possible negative and positive aspects of the culture.

If someone likes Japan for ANY reason and you don't agree with that reason..GET OVER IT! I like anime and that is the ONLY reason I like Japan .. I don't even like their cute little girls, those wooden things they eat with, or the temples were bubbuh is. I hope that last sentence really made some of you grind your little elitist teeths together. (heh....)

Point is: Their life is not your life to judge, to agree with, or to condemn.

We all live life differently. Our paths are different and that's good!
If we were all the same then what fun would that be.


Lastly a ponderous moment:
How many times have you given advice to someone who was passionate about something and the person said "OH ... you're right .. i am wrong .. i will listen to you! thanks a lot! I realize even though this is MY dream... and NOT yours..your complete and immediate denial of my dream really hit home and i'm going to go play checkers now."

British people criticize everyone and everything :P So do Japanese people. Of course this is a super duper generalization but I think it has a grain of truth in it.

I think all of us the world over like to do a little bit of criticism, it's in our nature I guess! :p

Very true. Although, it seems that the new world people like Americans and Australians are taught to be more optimistic. I had many run-ins with my old manager when I started working in the states. She didn't like me being so "negative" about things where I thought I was making some criticisms out of pure precaution. I've heard some American people complain how they were taught that the future would be rosy and they should be all positive about life but the reality turned out to be much much harsher and dismal. I have never heard of this type of complaints from a Japanese person before. I'm not sure about British people but personally haven't heard this from a British person either. I was taught that the future WILL BE harsh and I have the complete opposite complaint. They should have taught me that the world wouldn't be so bad.

Yeah we british really don't view things through rose-coloured glasses. If anything we are overly realist and cynical! :p It's a common thing in schools to be told things will only get harder when we leave education! :) Albeit sometimes half-heartedly by teachers with dark humour (one of my favourite teachers ALWAYS told us how things would get worse in his jokey way) :D