(This was moved from another thread, and an almost unrelated post was quoted. I have removed the quote, but felt this was a good topic for discussion so have given it a thread all for itself. - Nyororin)


ACTUALLY-- reading the above makes me wonder of the attraction for youngsters for Japan.

Why do they want to go there? what illusions of the place do they have?

So much through the ANIME and manga---------what do they actually believe it is like to live in JAPAN. what is its charm, Mystery, Marvels that attracts them so?


The reality of living there surely would soon disillusion them.


I have been reading a lot of books but more to do with the society-- every day living. I love my japanese friend here in UK-- I became interested in Japan and its people because of HER. Trying to understand her ways.

I am keen to learn about its art and history and culture-- good and bad. It is doubtful that I can make it to Japan-- I would love to see its countryside most of all. I cannot walk well-- so uncertain if I could sightsee as I would like to.


I guess to many of us its a land of mystery-- and contradictions.


WHat really is the magnet that attracts people to want to live in Japan?

I personally think that a lot of it has to do with difference. A lot of people feel unhappy with their place in life (particularly when young and without real freedom to do what they want) and blame this on their surroundings... Surroundings move up to country and culture - and develops into a belief that the root of unhappiness lies in where they are instead of personal life experiences, life choices, etc.

Japan is immeasurably different, but yet still within a sort of "safety zone" - ie. it is not a dangerous place, it is a first world country with modern technology, it is well known, etc. Link this in to it being the home of something enjoyed - such as anime, manga, etc - and not only does it come to look like the solution to life`s woes, but also somewhere offering the freedom to do all those things that they find enjoyable.

I think a lot of this putters out when older not because of disillusionment about Japan, but more because of the addition of experience in real life. Living on your own can very quickly change your perspective on life. Instead of it being oppressive parents and figures of authority, it is your own abilities that shape your path in life. I think the realization that even in another country, you are still going to have to be the one to feed, clothe, and provide shelter for yourself cuts down on the desire to just up and move to an unknown place. When younger, even if those things do come to mind, it is nearly impossible to know the reality while being supported by someone else.

Quite a long time ago, I had several people (all high school age, and one at a time) come to stay with me because they wanted desperately to move to Japan. The shock of not suddenly being completely free to do anything they wanted, to not have freedom from any and all responsibilities, to still have the same stresses and worries, etc, seemed to come as a MUCH larger shock to them than anything to do with Japan itself. Japan had, somewhere along the line, turned into the embodiment of everything they didn`t have at home. The reality of it being another place with responsibilities and rules, and that just being here didn`t remove the stresses and unhappiness they felt for some aspect of life was the biggest shock.

Well....I think it's a lot!!
Germany and Japan are alike in some ways...for example...
...but there are still a lot of socio-cultural differences, that attract me!

The outward appearance might be another hint:

Those beautiful small eyes, just everything.
Religious differences..

aww....

Especially the artistic buildings I like, historical things, etc.
(samurai for example, shogun, etc..geisha!! ..etc.)
^--^
_________________________________________________________________
The Illusion:

Although some might really be caught in their own world of fiction, thinking you can cosplay everywhere in japan, and every japanese person LOVES manga and anime....

This is a REAL illusion.
There are certain places for cosplay, and regions where cosplay is definitely not allowed and unliked...

Anime/Manga....we all should know that "otaku" is meant in a negative way in japan. Not a title of honor and glory <3

I can fully understand people being fascinated with Japan. It's a fascinating place. I can fully understand people wanting to come on a holiday to see some of the wonderful places here. What I do struggle with is some of the passionate longing of some of the people on this forum to come live here when they have never been here previously and really have very little idea about what it's like to live in Japan. They seem to have some rather incredibly naive views that Japan is some sort utopian society. It's somewhat irrational and I can't help but think it stems from some serious unhappiness they have living in their own society. As though here they would magically find a happier existence. Well maybe they would....I don't know.

completely agree, should at least visit the country you claim to want to live in. As for me I currently want to visit japan but I'm learning japanese language to converse with japanese people all over the world...not just in japan but certainly I hope my studies take me there some day but not because I want to live there forever or anything just because there is alot of places I want to visit.

Suppose I'm 20 now...can I still be considered a teenager?

As a young person, perhaps some some opinion from the 'horse's mouth' might help. I want to live in Japan for many reasons. Now, before I begin, I make clear that not all young people will have the same reasons. But for me, the experience of living in the UK as a teen has been a frustrating one. I am easily annoyed by phone helplines, & their lack of help. I am annoyed at government schemes f***ing things up. I am annoyed by the British public. I am annoyed at the state that some residential area's are left in, & the amount of society's scum that wander about. I feel I don't fit here. My mind & personality is different from the norm here. Don't get me wrong, I will miss a number of things here, but I see too many negatives to stay after uni. Why Japan though? It's simple. I love Japan, & from what I've watched, seen, read etc., I feel I would fit well with the culture & customs. Its not all about being in 'the anime capital' or whatever. I feel it's deeper than that, & after uni, hope to make this happen :)

when I watch a japanese tv show (comedy based ones) I actually cry with laughter sometimes...I don't even do that with some of my favourite english comedy tv shows. Just love the sense of humour.

My opinion can be considered invalid though because I havn't decided if I want to make a move to japan

Eh, I'd just like to go overseas in general. Y'see both my parents were enlisted in the Air Force (active duty) and they got to go all over the U.S. before I was born -- California, Nevada (they even got married at The Elvis Wedding Chapel in Vegas), Texas, Florida etc. Anyway, my mom was in Panama (the South American one) when she discovered she was pregnant with me (and Panama was a dangerous place in 1990) and it wasn't until she was 8 months pregnant that she was transferred to a base in the US to rest and stuff. So, yeah, then I was born at the hospital at Maxwell AFB. You know where I live now? Maxwell AFB. I've lived in the same place my whole life while my fellow military brats got to move away and go to places like France, Germany and I personally know a few who've been to Japan.

The thing that kills me is a lot of these kids/people didn't even appreciate the culture and sights of the places they visited. I remember being 10 and hearing a girl (in her teens) tell me that she went to France (or Germany, I forget) and stayed on base the whole time. Another girl went to Japan and said she went a time or two off base with a translator and said the fish markets were disgusting, the food was weird so she mostly stayed on base and ate McDonald's D:

So, as a AF brat with never-been-anywhere (and jealous of culturally unappreciative youths) issues I'd love to go overseas, and as Japanese is the foreign language I know best, why not Japan? Moreover, I :rheart: seafood.

But I don't expect Japan will be the 'magical J-drama-come-to-life land'. I'm sure they'll be nice people and a few assholes; some hot people, some ugly people, good food and bad food. And I think that people need to keep that in mind. Nothing about an entire nation can be perfect. Think about where you live; I'm sure there are nice people and I'm sure there's a few hateful douche bags you know in your country (I know I do...) I think people are about the same wherever you go.

One last thing; "And remember, no matter where you go, there you are." -- Confucius
It's kind of a silly quote but it's a valid point; If you have a problem with yourself, moving to another country make not make you any happier. Food for thought.

I don't get that kind of mad longing either. I've lived there for a year, and I'm keen to go back, but all my plans to move there again are based on the premise that at the end of the day I might well need to, or want to return to the UK. That's partly why I've lingered after graduation; setting myself some foundations at home I can come back to. And actually, it's a move i'm kind of anxious about. Having been there I have a much bigger appreciation for how large an obstacle things like the language barrier can be when you live and work somewhere (and i'm upper intermediate at Japanese, so i'm no rookie either) full time, and I know how hard it can be to live alone and be responsible for every area of one's life- doing that on the other side of the world is a challenge. I like to think i'll manage it just fine, but who knows? I've only seen one area of Japan really, and things change. Perhaps living there again won't live up to the memory of it. Or perhaps it will be better.

I also have never been driven to want to go to Japan out of a dismissal of my own country. I love the UK. I'm British, and I don't think i'd ever give that up unless push came to shove (like I had kids and my whole life was in Japan, then I might consider it, as I don't think dual nationality is an option, right?). Honestly, I think that the UK has a lot of good points that Japan lacks, although conversely, Japan also has a lot of good points that the UK lacks. And to whoever said (non-verbatim) that British politics and advertising stinks, well basically, those things stink the world over.

So... why? Hard to pin-point really. My reasons have always been kind of hazy, and my reasons now are not the same as the ones I had starting out. I want to go to Japan to improve my Japanese, to get work experience in a field I that i couldn't easily get here. To temper myself, I guess? Prove I can do it, and have something I can say I've done when I'm 80- That I didn't just dream about it; I tried it. To eat more. I guess just to live to my fullest. I could move to London or America and it would be the same; I've just chosen Japan as it has more of that Thing about it. No idea what to call it. It's just that Thing People Look For. Last time I got a glimpse of it was in Japan, so... that's my road.

and that all sounds a lot less crazy in my head. :/

Whenever young people say "I want to live in Japan",Paris syndrome occurred to me.
Paris syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It seems that young people from the West are more naive than people from Asia.They know more realistic information.In other words,negative aspects of Japanese society.

Among western people,those who are interested in eastern philosophy and religion or Japanese martial arts (old school )are more mature.
Anime,Manga,Visual-kei fans from the West (new school,after spread of the Internet) tend to have most shallow and naive views　of Japan and REAL LIFE.

@ Columbine
That doesn't sound crazy to me at all. I think I feel pretty much the same :D
I don't hate living on a AFB, in fact, I totally love it (though I dislike my state and much of its people -- y'know, the racist, sexist, crazy-religious rednecks). But I'd still like to live in another country not as a 'tourist', but a functioning (semi) citizen. Something to be proud of in the chronicles of my life story and how I was able to appreciate and experience culture significantly different from my own. Best of luck in your conquests ;)

Thankyou so Much Nyrorin-- I realise I should have posted that on a new thread.-- forgive my carelessness.

I'm the same, although I do like some UK & American comedy/sitcoms. I find it hard not to laugh out loud during some Japanese comedy shows I've seen, especially 'Hard Gay'.

Hello Jambo-- all countries have governments and political decisions have to be made-- many that we object to-- especially these recent schemes and saving of money by the coalition govt. Universities losing out-- and students being in too much debt when they leave UNI-- and how many Unii students are unable to obtain good jobs?


From the way you talk-- you are unhappy in your present environment-- I don't know your circumstances of course-- but the whole of UK has good places to live.

Life is a struggle-- always has been always will be, No matter where you live in the end its up to the individual to make choices.


I hope that your dream of Japan will work out-- but how much do you really know about life there? what is your real ambition in life--?


The grass is always greener elsewhere-- but is it really?

Housing in this country is way too expensive-- I don' tknow about Japan but from what I have read it too is expensive.


WOuld you thinkof going as a student? seems as good a way to start and to explore and learn the realities of Japan.

we here have so many immigrants desperate to get to this country. Maybe they have fantasies about UK-- but are they true?

so much of what Nyrorin has written is so true-------------

She always talks a lot of sense.

ANyway I hope your dreams will come true but you know there are plenty of countries much worse than UK. I would not want to live elsewhere unless maybe australia.

"The grass is always greener on the other side..." Young American (and European) people don't know how well they have it. Their lives are so easy that they actually get bored with the wonderful lives they are lucky enough to have.

The lives of my students in Japan are much different than the lives of high school students elsewhere. Japanese students get to wear uniforms to school, but so what? They are not permitted to dye their hair, wear jewelry, or to offend the dress code in any way. They come to school at 8am, study until 3pm, have club activities for another two hours, and then go to juku (cram school) for another couple of hours. If they are lucky they will get home by 9:30 at night. And add the fact that many students attend school 6 or 7 days a week, and you can see that there isn't often time to spend doing anything else.

School is a tough grind to pass the university entrance exams, and even if you are lucky enough to pass these exams you will only end up qualifying to attend a sub-standard university where you won't learn anything more than it takes to be hired as an overworked and underpaid salaryman. Of the world's top 25 universities this year, none are in Japan, almost all are in America, with the remainder being in Europe.

Am I trying to burst anyone's bubble? Perhaps, but if you can't be happy where you are now, don't think that simply changing your location is going to make you feel any better. A great number of people come to Japan with high expectations and then find it to be nothing like they expected. Some do enjoy living here, while others come to hate it.

One of the interesting things regarding technology though is that I find the use of technology in Japan to be way behind many western countries. Very few of my Japanese friends have a computer with internet connected at home. Of course they use their keitais for internet access but mostly only for social networking stuff. Many of the Japanese staff I've worked with have not been very computer or internet savvy at all.
Banking here seems almost like 20 years behind in terms of using technology. Finding a Japanese bank that has good internet banking systems isn't overly easy. The use of credit and debit cards is still in it's infancy. ATM's still actually close on public holidays!
Japanese offices are often still mostly paper based offices. Many of the computer systems that are used are so old that many modern applications and software can't be used on them. I've still seen many places using DOS systems and dot matrix printers! I know of quite a few large hotels in my area still using written ledgers for reservations rather than any booking software. Many businesses I have had to deal with still require you send faxes rather than email. Hardly any government agencies are interlinked. You have to duplicate changes of any details with every agency.
Anyway point is that as much as Japan is often viewed as some high tech wonderland, in reality in many parts of the country they are barely at what we were back in Australia some 15-20 years ago.

The "Japan" you describe is very different from the one I see in Kansai. Most of the people I know (under the age of 50) have Internet. There are some that don't, but even if they don't have a computer at home, they are wired through their phones.

Credit cards in their infancy? I have been using credit cards for 20+ years in Japan. I can only remember one time I had trouble, and I think the problem was my CC company, not the store I was buying a game console at. That was in 1995, I think. Since then, no problems whatsoever.

I agree, Japan is a paper based business society, but things aren't that much better here in the US. They are getting better, here, and maybe at a faster rate. It's hard with the fax machines, because Japan was a culture where EVERYONE has a fax machine, even at home. In the US it is almost unheard of to have a fax machine at home. (20 years ago they thought we were behind the times in that respect, I bet).

You cannot pay bills, buy a meal or a can of soda using your cell phone in America. You cannot pay your bills at a convenience store here. I recently had a Japanese guest and he was surprised we didn't have a heated toilet seat.

So there are all kinds of different ways of looking at who is "ahead" and who is "behind".

Ha ha...ha? *quizzical look*

Obviously rural Hokkaido, or probably anywhere rural Japan, is going to be very different to major cities like Osaka and Tokyo. I can only comment from a rural Japan perspective as I've never lived in the big citites.
The credit card comment is based on my experience here that it's very difficult to find many places, including some of the large supermarkets, that accept credit cards (beyond maybe ones they distribute themselves). Before I left Australia it had basically turned into a society where few people carried cash anymore. Pretty much all money transactions could be done by credit or debit cards. All bills could be done by internet banking (I've only just recently managed to get some of our bills here paid by internet banking). People really just didn't carry much cash anymore. Here, as you know, it's hardly unusual to see people walking around with large amounts of cash. Many employers still pay in cash (something practically unheard of in Australia these days). Overall Japan is much more of a cash based society from my experience.

I know of places in the US where they don't even have cable television, and there are certainly rural places where no one uses credit cards, so I think it is hard to talk about the countries as a whole in such sweeping terms.

In terms of other tech, like public transportation, Japan is decades ahead of the US. We have been talking about bullet trains, but now interstate train travel shares lines with freight trains, and where in Japan schedules are reliable down to the minute, delays are common on American interstate trains, sometimes hours late.


Japan is surely a cash-based culture. People in Japan confidently walk around with the equivalent of thousands of US dollars, where I feel most Americans are nervous walking around with more than a couple hundred dollars. (I rarely take out more than 40 or 60 dollars from the ATM.)

This is an issue of the technology reflecting society, and isn't necessarily "behind".

A) "ACTUALLY-- reading the above makes me wonder of the attraction for youngsters for Japan."

B) "So much through the ANIME and manga..."

C) "I cannot walk well-- so uncertain if I could sightsee as I would like to."
____________________________________________________________

Hi everyone; This is my first post on Japan Forum.com! I'm still trying to understand this site (and the rules) so hopefully I don't offend too many.

A & B) What attracted me was the combination of having an asian roommate (Chinese) which introduced me to the Eastern culture and anime (Cartoon Network initially) which led me to going to college for a degree in computer animation.

I really enjoy the collectivistic society concept where even if people dislike you they won't tell you to your face. (Hey..hate me all you want baby but at least lie to me..THAT I can deal with.)

In the end, an indiviualistic society like the United States is good because you know where you stand but sometimes it becomes cumbersome shouldering people's negative energy that they carry (and love to unload).
I can also see the positive/negative aspects of a collectivistic society where people keep their negative feelings inside mostly but you never know quite how someone feels.

I'm going to Osaka, Japan in 65 days (not that i'm counting...) so I'll see first hand how much my talk actually walks.

C) Hope you can figure out a system that will allow you to go!

- Hiko

If you allow me to be so cocky to say this, I think MMM and GoNative both have a point. It's just different parts of an elephant imo. But...

In my experience, English speaking people who openly say Japan is backward or behind are always Antipoders. I don't think they mean ill, it's probably just how they simply felt, but people from other parts of the world usually think twice before saying that.

Internet, for example, is much faster in Japan than any other countries in the world and although the advent of i-phone turned the table, i-mode had been the most advanced mobile technology for a decade. It's just what you are used to and how you look at things. I've seen an Aussie lady on the web who was saying that Japan was backward because their houses didn't even have ovens. Well, yeah, Japanese are not really into ovens, but they are really into rice and knifes and all other things that SHE can't care less.

I like to-the-point people more than politically-correct-but-sneaky people though. It was really cool talking to her. It's just that kind of attitude can be prone to misunderstandings in an international setting.

As I say I live in a little town in Hokkaido. Most peoples experiences of Japan, including the foreigners who live here for a time, are from the big cities which I'm certain are very different to up here. It's not referred to inaka island for nothing! ;)

I think you are missing the point. The reason people are not overt in their opinions is because, for the most part, they don't have to be. You should be able to read what they are thinking without them saying it overtly. This is part of the art of communication in Japan. You must be a more ACTIVE LISTENER than you have to be in the West.

As for why people are attracted to Japan, Why not? You've never asked me why I speak English, Dogsbody :) Many Japanese people ask me why I'm in the states and what the attraction is. I guess I can make just as much money in Japan, but it's just more... um.. interesting here?

Some people want to go far, as far as they can go, to experience different cultures. I explored out of my own culture and now I'm talking to you in a language that is not my own. I think it's fascinating.

Yeah, Hokkaido can be the Australia of Japan. Or Colorado. The best part anyway.
The snow in Colorado is not damp like the one you guys have though :P

haha Hokkaido has some of the direst snow on the planet delivered directly from Siberia! :mtongue:

To sort of step back from the off topic discussion of Japanese technology and the like - What compels so many people to decide that they want to live in Japan permanently? I am not talking about people who have been in Japan for some amount of time, etc, but the younger set who has not even so much as set a foot in Japan. Often many of them have not even met a Japanese person.

It is not the interest in Japan that I find curious, but the leap from interest to wanting to live there forever without much in between. There seem to be considerably fewer people saying they want visit Japan than there are people saying they want to move there.

While I am very happy living in Japan, and can`t personally say I`d like to live anywhere else... I find it hard to imagine just wanting to up and move to a country I`d never even been to. Especially if it would be not only an unknown place, but the first attempt at living alone. (And no, having read a bunch about Japan, watched a bunch of anime/drama, etc, in no way can be compared to physically experiencing a place.)

^^ I too find it hard to imagine making such a big life decision when you have not even visited a place previously. It'd be something like wanting to marry someone purely after reading their bio on a dating site! ;)

em..i didnt read all the posts but...
why people seem to be unable to comprehend why young people want to go there? specially the author of topic...? is it really that this is SUCH a big mystery and deal to you ?
at this point ~1/10 of my fellow citizens work/have worked abroad. so its totally normal...well for countries with BS economy... :cool:

there is no reason why from social,economical aspects people shouldn't go and look for a job in japan. maybe you think its weird because it recently started since japan was more or less divided from rest of the world when in fact there still are only a few foreigners compared to London - capital of worlds races. since you are from uk you should understand better...

perhaps I should know better. The thing is that on this forum there seems to be some sort of fantasy about Living inJapan-- as though it is a kind of UTOPIA that will solve all their problems-- weave magic charms upon them.


the same as we have so many people wishing to live in UK-- the so called land of milk and honey or like the London streets that were supposed to be paved in gold.

Many seem to wish to go there because of there love of MANGA and Anime.

It is a question only. WHY.

Why do any of us believe that life in another country will be better than their own?

for many this could definitely be true.

its not why do they want to visit-- but why do some think they want to live there when they really have no true idea of what the country is like to live and work in.

My japanese friend is desperate to stay here (UK) for ever-- but she will not be allowed because of her age--so she studies.

thankyou Sangetsu for your knowledgeable post. Life for students does seem really hard. I wondered if it was changing now.

Are there as many companies willing to take on employees and more or less rule their lives-- support them? Can the COMPANIES afford to do so?


Here in the Uk so many people are being made redundant and too many trying to find fresh work. Its not easy here-- so what chances in Japan?

For me the attraction towards Japan is mostly based on the high tech part and evolution of this domain in the last 50 years all the way over there. I'm kinda intrigued and captivated about how and why in a such retracted world, there were so many inovations which the entire population of this planet are curently using as normal house appliances or electronics.

This, for me, worths an entire life of close up study.

But I don't want to lie, there is about 10% in this attraction towards the area, the girl population over there. You live longer surounded by beauty, at least that's what I say.

I think MisaMisa has it down.

At the very least living in the United States shares a ubiquitous syllogism with the rest of the country. A majority of the population have immigrated at one point or other into the makeshift culture that decorates much of the lifestyles of Americans. Especially places like Florida, California, New York, etc. There is no uniformity of culture between you and the person that lives down the block or even next to you. The lack of centralization in the sphere of the community is disparaging and many of those that have carved lives for themselves in America have accepted that fact and continued to dive deeper into their 9 to 5s or their tented families that represent the places they came from; with the hope of calling home, home un-hesitatingly. In my opinion, these existences spring out the bulk of the individuals that dream and attempt to go and live in Japan or anywhere else for that matter.


I also think that it's ok for people to have dreams. And I also think it's ok for those dreams to be crushed by reality. People having premeditated perspectives about Japan is necessary. Without having experienced it themselves what else can they have but misconceptions about the reality of what it means to live in Japan.

You can't really call it living if you stunt your approaches in life by fear, IMO. That which doesn't kill you.....etc etc.

Because we are alive we have a responsibility to improve the circumstances we find ourselves, no matter how unorthodox the vestige of that responsibility takes us. Because those actions will lead the ones that come after us.

I can't say I ever dreamed of living in Japan from a young age but I did dream of living in a snowy land and Australia just isn't all that snowy! So yes I dreamed all the time of living in far away lands like northern North America, The mountainous regions of Europe or Scandinavia, basically wherever it snowed lots. I didn't actually know at the time that Japan had such awesome snow and in my younger years hadn't even heard of Hokkaido.
I did travel to numerous places around the world in search of great snow and mountains but none were really quite as snowy as I was hoping for.
Then a girlfriend I had many years ago who had spent a year as an exchange student in Toyama told me stories about the incredible nearby mountains and the amounts of snow they received. I also read in an outdoor magazine an article about a guy who did a lot of backcountry skiing in Hokkaido. He talked about an island covered to sea level in snow and I knew I had to check this place out.
I first came here in '03 on a skiing holiday with my wife and knew immidiately that I'd found the place I'd been dreaming about all my life. And I've been here for most of the time since. Nothing wrong with dreaming and sometimes dreams do come true :vsign:

I know it's weird to be so passionate about something like snow but hey I also think it's a bit weird to really passionate about things like manga and anime. We're all weird in our own way :D

Passion is great--passion is desirable and if you find something that inspires that Passion-- go all out for it.

So glad that GONATIVE discovered and fulfilled his idea of heaven. fantastic!!

Not too many of us ever achieve that-- so simply go for that something that excites that Passion in your life.