why is that Crap?

First off, technically he's just a prophet.
And secondly, if the only thing you can do is quoting your prophet, than your religion is crap. :P
In my opinion his just a 'clown', and I won't recite the 'king' to reply him...

Feil0 - you are brain damaged, right?
i hope so...so at least there would be an excuse.

which is the real brain damaged person on here?

Feil0. he is. ill give it that since you are in your 70's you can't see it just yet...

@evanny
Yes, if it suits you.
I think this is what they call demagogy in politics, and it's funny because he's obviously joking but to say if there was a God he would be yours :eek: ...
You should think about your excuses, not me...

we have different sense of humour---

I guess its satire.

suits some--not me though.

could someone give your opnion about this point:

what is the difference between kill a person and commit an abortion?

what about Humanity.

Have you seen pictures of aborted babies?

early stages is one thing but later-- its not like getting rid of a few cells.

A fully formed baby-- just evacuated and discarded.

So for you is wrong a woman go to a clinic and commit an abortion in the last stages of pregnancy, something like 7 months or more.

But the fetus isn't a life form in potential (it has great probabilities in develop in to a complete life form) ? So, in your point of view it's not something like kill but is a form to avoid this "incomplete" life form to live ?

Post Deleted.

At least here in Denmark it's HIGHLY illegal to get an abortion that late.. There are limitations to when it's "possible" to get an abortion at a clinic.
Carrying a child for 7 months (where it's grown to a pretty full size) and THEN realizing that you don't want it... oh please..

If you kill a person, you kill a living creature that probably already walked this earth for a while. An 'actual' person (don't get me wrong, babies aren't just pieces of meat) has developed a spine, organs, nervous system, personality, etc. - a baby inside a belly, who hasn't even taken its first breath has none of these things yet. Getting an abortion is pretty normal.. Nature ''commits'' abortions all the time, but you don't go knock over a hundred trees and call Mother Nature a murderer because of it.

I guess I didn't put it right. I was referring to mothers who DID NOT want their babies - I'm aware that many women do.. and that many women who DO want them, also may end up neglecting them at some point.

I got my information wrong then. I took psychology in high school (NOT an American high school, though!), and we discussed some of these topics along with Freud's theories and Bern's. A lot of birth depressions come down to the mother not feeling ''good enough'' already from the beginning, she begins to hear voices that tell her to do things to the child, because the baby would be much better off without her. Usually hormonal changes occur at early stages and it builds up a maturity level that'll prep the mother for giving birth and not ''fearing'' it the same way as I personally would.. Anyway, to me a birth depression is a lot like schizophrenia - it's just triggered by the whole ''expecting a baby'' drama.

Agreed! Though, I have yet to see a woman/girl use abortions as ''birth control''. Here it's considered a safety net. No one dares to use it 'regularly', because it carries high risks for the uterus and internal parts in general. Again, there are usually ''regulations'' for when you can get the abortion. The procedure is preferably done ASAP and I'm pretty sure (as mentioned) that there are strict rules for how long the baby is allowed to have been 'in there'.

hahahaha bad Mother Nature

So for you a abortion commited by Mother Nature is the same as an abortion commited by a normal woman...

I'm not defending pro-abortion neither anti-abortion. In most cases people defending anti-abortion or pro-abortion presents very weak arguments to prove what they believe, I just want to know in a deeper way the opnion of the people here.

And what about the abortion in the country of people here :
is it proibited?
If not, in what kind of case the mother can use this resource?
If is proibited, why is proibited?
what are the requirements to get an abortion according with your country law?

Anyone know a woman who decided to abort?
Why she decided to abort?

often when a woman has a miscarriage there is something wrong with the foetus or baby or she cannot contain it for some reason.


Nature is supposed to know best-- what about the babies that are born prematurely? Many can be kept alive from very early stages these days.


BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Q&A: Abortion law


BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Abortion result 'unpredictable'


Abortion Rights

All this talk about all life being sacred and such just really gets up my nose and generally reeks of hypocrasy. People get all worked up over abortion, how it's destroying life or potential life but then quite happily go about their nice 1st world lifestyles whilst near 10,000 children die each and every day around the world from completely preventable hunger related illnesses. If life is so incredibly precious are you willing to give up your 1st world privaledged lifestyle to save those in less fortunate countries?
These same people who claim life is so precious are also some of the same people who aren't too keen on allowing desperate refugees into their countries. You see this is where the hypocrasy comes into it. Life is all sooo precious to these people but only really in certain circumstances and only really as long as it doesn't affect their own lifestyles. It's all crap. One thing we should all know by now is that around the world life is not precious at all. In fact life is incredibly cheap. And we also know that life is much more precious if you're white rather than black, brown or some other shade. And we all allow by our inactions completely unnecessary deaths to occur all the time. To then get on your high horses and claim abortions are a waste of life is just so hypocritical it's ridiculous.

Hello? those country's are starveing because they are over run with warlords, slave traders ( who happen to be arbian or black, not white) pirates, gangs and tyranical dictators. There isn't Jack we can do about that, last time we tried, we got world condemnation and two blackhawks shot down. . Those nations are thier own worst enemies and have caused the majority of thier problems. So no, that isn't the US's fault.

I would also point out that US spends more on charity and food than the rest of the world combined. So no, our horse isn't that high.

Plus, that has nothing to do with the issue of wether I think human life begins at conception or not. Those are all unfortuanate situations and it's a horrible thing, but I can't do anything about that. Nor am I going to be lead on some guilt trip because I happen to live a decent lifestyle, the US earned what it has through hard work, blood, sweat and tears.

I am 100% pro-choice. If a woman wants to get an abortion, she should have every right to have one. Someone should not be forced to bring a child into this world if they believe they are not capable of having one nor if adoption not an option.

There's plenty that could be done to improve the lot of the 3rd world if 1st world countries (not just the almight US of bloody A) were prepared to reduce the quality of their own lifestyles (but of course they aren't). The incredible inequities we see between countries is only there because of greed. You value your life and those of Americans above those of other countries. Hence you can live your affluent lifestyle without much of a care for those that can't even feed themselves. This just proves the point that we don't value all human life equally. So to me to get all principled on things like abortion just reeks of hypocrasy.

Or there is something wrong with her. Or it`s just a total fluke. Or... The body figures that a baby could not survive the circumstances.
The body has mechanisms that can initiate a miscarriage (or prevent pregnancy to begin with...) when it feels that the baby has a low chance of survival. In first world countries this is pretty rare - bodies aren`t often put in serious long term situations of stress. But even if the body is perfectly cared for, emotional issues (just not wanting the baby) alone can sometimes be strong enough to trigger one.

Sure, they can be kept alive. But in the long term is that really best for them? Babies born very early are often born for similar reasons as a miscarriage would happen at earlier stages - something wrong with the baby, something wrong with the mother's body, etc.
Thinking of the babies themselves... Have you ever seen what they do to premature babies? They suffer through countless horrific procedures, know virtually nothing but endless pain, all in the slim hope that they`ll survive (most don`t)... And those who do survive end up more often than not with serious health and developmental issues.

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Anyway, I think that a lot of people confuse support for the choice to have an abortion with support for abortions (as in feeling they`re a positive thing), and support for later term abortions. I have never met anyone who approves of allowing abortions after it even looks like a tiny baby, let alone after viability. Come to think of it, I don`t really think I`ve ever encountered someone who even thought abortions were a positive thing at all. The opinion seems to be that they are a negative thing, but a better option that some others and a last resort choice that should be available.

OMG! Really? Me too!!! :eek: I mean, I feel that way about him too!!! He is the closest to being a God than a human being can get! Aside from Messi, of course. :cool: Bill Maher...? I'll check him out. ;)

Ahem... as for abortion... Guys, don't lose your grip over this, seriously, you'll never get to an agreement, so it's no use.

Very interesant GoNative. So did you born in Japan or only lives there?

thanks for the information about abortion in UK dogsbody.

Gonative, cold hard fact is this. The 3rd world is 3rd world becuase thier thought process is 3rd centruy. Those 3rd world nations will NEVER become 1st world or even 2cd world until they themselves choose to grow past thier own limitations. I could give all my money to charity and live in a hovel , hell all of the western nations could. That still wont make 3rd world nations any better than 3rd world, because 3rd world is where they Choose to live.

They will not advance past 3rd world until they have gone through thier own version of "reformation, enlightenment , industrialization and the rest of the steps the US and the other western 1st world nations had to undertake. Until they raise themselves out of the past, they will not have much of a future.

Fully Agreed, just like it takes One person to improve themselves and get themselves out of the ghetto or whatever hole they are in. All the help in the world could be dumped in their lap, but it'll just be wasted if they Themselves don't take the necessary steps to improve their situation.

This is one of the most ignorant posts I've ever read.

The "third world" (I hate that term.. it's outdated) isn't poor because they choose to be. It's poor because it is exploited by a mixture of corrupt governments (both indigenous and foreign), multi-national corporations and religion.

for once I agree with RONIN. Maybe another thread is appropriate for this discussion.

knowledge about geopolitcs 0%
knowledge about history 0%
knowledge about world economy 0%

probably this man never heard about BRIC ...

this man realy talked about 2nd world?! hahahaha.

limited vision of the world, what strange for a "superior being" from a "perfect 1st world" country!

A chance to save you from the ignorance about world economy: BRIC

and

BBC News - Viewpoint: Brazil's growing international presence

Better back to the central theme of the topic:

In my country abortion is only permitted when the child offers danger to the mother life or if the fetus is a result from sexual violence. The new president promissed to discuss better the theme.

For me the best way to solve the question here is in a plebiscite, asking the population if they want more abrangency in the abortion law, and I think the things are walking to this way. That is the kind of question that I don't want to let in the hands of the burocrats.

The point I was making wasn't to debate the reasons why some countries are less fortunate than others but was to point out in practice we do not value all human life. One of the big arguments by those against abortion is that all life is sacred. But demonstrably all life is not sacred. Those of us in developed, wealthy nations continue to allow extreme poverty to thrive around the world and in places like the US within their own countries. We all allow incredible amounts of suffering and death to occur purely because of poverty because we don't value all human life. So it's kind of ridiculous to put abortion on some sort of pedastal as though the act of giving birth is somehow more sacred than actually caring about those who are already alive. In reality in this world life is very, very cheap. No reason to get all precous about abortion when we allow so much other death to occur all the time.

You have your own child. Are you glad that he/she was not aborted?

Although ronin's post sums up the only worthy response to this little bit of ridiculousness I'll answer anyway. My wife and I planned to have our daughter. It took nearly 3 years of trying but we finally got pregnant and I couldn't be happier. But if it had have been 15 or so years ago when I wasn't married and the last thing in the world I would have wanted was a baby then I would have been overjoyed if whatever girl I got pregnant decided to have an abortion. I have no moral issues with abortion. This world is already full of neglected and unwanted children. No need to bring more into it.

If I accepted that life wasn't sacred because, you're right, there are so many unfairness in this world; that wouldn't make things better.
I mean: if life isn't sacred why should anyone bother with the situation of the orphans or the children living in poverty in any country.
My problem with abortion is not that women have a choice, so they can decide whether they want the child or not(it's actually a life-saving decision many times), but that in certain situations they are told to do abort the fetus. Just like in the other thread you said the girl, who by the way was not forcing the boy to do anything, was acting selfish and stupid because she wanted to keep the child. Can you tell me what makes her decision less worthy than those who decide to do the abortion? You say abortion is the better choice, even if the woman against it... where is the truth in your words? No offense, but what you say is just unfair, and you do not support free-choice at all.
The only thing which is missing, is the law which allows the father to make the decision whether he wants the child or not, males should have the same rights as females, and vice-versa, that's for sure...
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The fact that someone in a specific thread about abortion won't speak about every human life which suffer from poverty and injustice doesn't mean s/he doesn't understand or support those who suffer if can or the opportunity is given, or that s/he's acting hypocritically.
Life is sacred even if we don't have the power to protect everything and everyone and just by living we hurt and even kill many things around us. It is not decided or declared by ignorant human beings, it's a fact that exist, without life there is nothing, if life isn't sacred than the word 'sacred' is meaningless as it is. Or have you got something better than life to picture the meaning of 'sacred'?
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For those who cannot tell the difference between sperm and fetus: they should not speak at all, it's just ignorance and makes their argument really ridiculous.

@SCIFFIX
In my country women only allowed to do abortion if there is/are health or financial issues or the pregnancy is a cause of raping/ of any violent or illegal act. And even than, there is a time limit of it, which varies regarding of what the reason is - the longest time-limit is given when some kind of health issue occurs during the pregnancy, basically the mother's life is more valuable than the fetus and if there is a health problem with the child if it would born with an incurable disease the parents can decide not to keep it.

Some may think my words were cruel but whensomeone says thatlife is not sacred yet they have their own precious child. I do apologise though-- my comments were uncalled for.
when we look into a baby's face-- can we say to it-- oh I had thought it was best not to Keep you-- but Now I am so glad that I DID keep you.

ANd GN I am glad that after so long that you do have a beautifiul daughter. By rights I should have been aborted-- so I don't know why I wasn't-- except it never used to be legal. At least your daughter was really wanted.

I perhaps was harsher in tone than intended. The point I was makeing is that I'm not to blame for whatever happens in Somalia, nor will me liveing a certain lifestyle change the evil men that run Somalia.

As a counter Gonative; Perhaps the western world doesn't care much about the ten's of thusands of poverty striken children dieing in the world today, because Abortion has taught them that life is no more precious than last years car model. The western world has become jaded.

I'm not so sure it's because we have become jaded as that would imply that once we did care which I'd also argue is not true. In fact I'd argue that our affluent lifestyles have only been possible due to suffering. Our economies depend on it. The US for instance was only able to rise to such prominence so quickly because of slavery. It's easy to get rich when you don't have to pay workers. The class systems in many western nations like the UK also helped with this. For people to get really rich you generally need others to be remain really poor. To maintain our affluent lifestyles it's not in our best interests to help poor nations improve their lot too much. Anyway again my point is that as we accept so much poverty, needless death and suffering all the time it's just a bit hypocritical to then single out abortion as somehow a bigger issue than say actually helping those who already have been born and are struggling to survive. To me abortion is just such an incredibly minor issue that makes little difference to our societies one way or the other.

5 points to the clever one. As mentioned, it's VERY common for women to have a miscarriage the first time they're pregnant. However, they manage to pull through a completely normal pregnancy the second time - I don't think there's any particularly logical explanation to it, except maybe the body needs prepping time? My own mother lost her first baby, had my older brother, had me, lost her 4th baby and then had my younger brother.

I think you're applying common rules for dog breeding onto human beings - and those two don't really work the same way. Miscarriage for humans doesn't necessarily mean that there's anything wrong with the mother.

Nature DOES know best in my opinion. Many babies are born early. The earlier the child is born, the lower are its chances of survival. However, our technology is developed enough to keep a child born at 7 months alive - risks involved of course..


It's obviously not the same thing. But generally ''Mother Nature'' decides FOR the parents and baby that the baby is not capable of 'life' as it is. Be it a condition carried by the mother, a process of the whole meiosis thing. Sometimes the chemical processes that are active during the 'making' of the baby fuck up - it happens. There are various reasons as to why women lose their child naturally / cause of Mother Nature.

We have legal abortions here up to the 12th-15th week I believe.. I'm not quite sure. But there's definitely a limit.

The US didn't come to prominace because of Slavery, that's impossible. The South was an agrigarian culture that was no where near as industrialized as the North. Plus the US fought a devestateing civil war over it, wich left over 600,000 dead. The most Americans killed in any war they ever fought in.

While it's true we treated the local natives poorly, the US itself didn't become a world power until the Spanish American war in 1898, 30 years after slavery had been abolished. What made America powerful was the relentless drive and desire to live a better life than you were born with. The freedom to pursue those dreams, Plus the massive amounts of natural resources on a continant that we were able to unite.

The US was going to become rich and powerful reguardless of what the rest of the world did, just because of the basic cultural attitudes of American's in general and the abundance of resources available tied with the ability to unite a continant twice the size of Europe as one nation. Not to mention the US gives more to charity and world food bank than all other nations combined.

Many third world nations who were "taken advantage of" dureing the colonial period have been independant for over 60 years or longer...Japan built itself into an economic power after ww2 despite being devestated. What's the third worlds excuse for not matching Japan? Japan doesn't even have many natural resources compared with Africa.

You can't blame the western world for many of these 3rd world nations problems today, the blame lies with them. It isn't the west wipeing out millions in Durfar, not the West that killed 800,000 in Rawanda, not the west that let thier population starve in Somalia.


Abortion, in the US anyway, has claimed over 50 million. I would suggest that has made a huge difference on our cultural identity. That's 50 million people who never grew up, voted, got a job, discovered anything, invented anything or saved the third world from starvation. Wich perhaps they might have, had then been allowed to live.

nante ne

I object to you saying that I am comparing dog breeding to humans.


Nature does usually know best any way. There usually is a reason for miscarriages.


You seem to think you know best.

The influence we have in less developed nations would be better put to use if we just left them to thier own devices. Let them sink or swim on thier own. We need to stop helping them because it's just breeding resentment.

I would counter pro life being anti choice, with pro choice being pro death.