I guess I'd fall slightly in the arrogant category by some of the standards here. I don't really get the "gaijin nod" that I've heard of and experienced. I'm just not into it. Same goes for a random Japanese guy though, if I get a random nod at a random moment, chances are I won't acknowledge it. If I'm approached at a more appropriate moment, then I might have a conversation.

I'm sure I'm missing out on some very interesting conversations, but the ones that I've had (which were incidentally mostly unavoidable) left something more to be desired. As a matter of fact, one man that I got stuck into a World War I trench-like conversation with gave me a lecture not too unlike the "Does anyone else notice these things about Japanese women" thread. Except I had the pleasure of listening to his nonsense with my then fiance (now wife) next to me.

Here's typically how it goes:
Him: "and they do this.... and don't you hate it when... have you ever had ... doesn't it make you want to throw up?"
Me: "Yea... uh huh... ya, right... ummm ok, ya."
Him: "you know Japanese TV, have you ever noticed that..." "... is so fucking expensive" "you know how every time they..."
Me: (5 minutes later) "I've gotta go man" (approximately 20 steps ahead of you for the rest of this tour). "Have a good one, maybe I'll see you again" (the next time I'm on a trip 200 miles away from my home and you just happen to be there).
Him: "Yea, let's grab a beer or something next time"
Me: "Yea, for sure- catch you later bra" (If I should be so unfortunate)

I don't think they're enjoying the conversation either though. At any rate, I've had good experiences too but those were the exceptions and wouldn't be as entertaining to talk about. I think I've just had a few too many sour grapes to keep on pickin' though.

As for the OP, I don't really agree with his views on things, but he obviously brings up some interesting if not controversial topics.

Sitron is barely more than a troll - particularly in this thread - so first reflex was to roll my eyes and delete the thing... But since it has gone into a lengthy discussion I`ll add my bit.

When it comes to encountering other foreigners, I don`t really care unless they are doing something that I do not want to be associated with.

If I am on the train and another non-Asian foreigner hops on, my internal response is more like "Oh, hey, another foreigner. I wonder what type... (ie. Tourist? Teacher? Student? Long-termer? Rich business expat? Married to Japanese?)"
But, let us say that an obvious teacher hops on with two or three high school girl students, starts talking big and loud in English, and then clumsily tries to "jokingly" feel one of them up... I can do little but look down and pray that no one associates me with them.
Same with the tourists who will hop on, talk loudly, look like idiots, and treat the train (and Japan in general) as a playground.

I would feel the same way about these people even if they weren`t foreigners, but there wouldn`t be any particular worry of being associated with them due to appearance. But when it`s another foreigner doing something awful, someone who hops on to the train next is likely to figure we`re all together - especially if they sit close to me.

I have had experiences at large tourist sites where there have been non-Asian foreigners acting like idiots, doing stupid crap, being a total nuisance, etc. I`ve seen a group of drunk 20-something English teachers play "splash everyone!" with the purifying water at shrines - I`ve also seen foreigners complain and ignore signs and directions to take their shoes off going into temples, saying loudly to eachother "What are they gonna do? They`re all littler than us anyway! Harharhar!"
It all makes me cringe and really hope that these people`s actions don`t make people think ALL foreigners are like this.

I kind of get a kick out of helping people, so if I spot lost tourists in stations I will go out of my way to say hello and ask if they are having trouble navigating, etc. But normally I just mind my own business. I don`t think I`ve ever randomly said hello to anyone just because they were not Japanese.

You are a better person than me for sure. Unless I saw a really worried look on someone's face I don't think I could go out of my way to say hello to someone in case they needed help. If asked, I'll do my part... but that's about it.

By the way, it sounds like you've had some terrifying experiences Nyororin! I'd imagine that some of that behavior stems from the "Jackass" mentality. For the record, I do (or did back when I was a little younger) enjoy Jackass quite a bit... but I couldn't handle that stuff in real life. I wonder if the average foreigner who does that stuff in Japan would have the guts to pull those kinds of stunts in their home countries?

I am talking families/groups with maps pulled out, squinting at the station boards, looking around desperately, one of them with a guidebook - mumbling things about having no clue where they are... Possibly with added looks of desperation searching for help from someone, anyone. That level of obvious lostness. If they just look vaguely confused, I`m not going to say anything.

Not all that many, really, when you consider that I`ve been here for more than 10 years... But commonly enough that I sort of cringe and wait for it when I see that kind of group.

Who knows. Most likely not. I think that with a lot of the eikaiwa-"teacher" groups, there is an attitude of Japan being a playground, and of there being "gaijin-power". They seem to get a kick out of people cringing at their behavior, and the fact that no one will step up to stop them. Not to mention that no matter what they do, they can just "go home" and not ever think of it again.
Combine this with the power of a group, and you get a lot of people who would be decent alone and out of that situation who act like complete and total idiots.

Most of the foreigners who live up this way I know at least pretty well. In the area there are about 250 of us living here year round. Do I like all of them? Nope I don't but I'll always give a nod or a wave whenever I see them. Many I would consider my friends and when we meet we always stop and have a chat about how things are going. There's a pretty close group of about 30 of us who regularly get together for numerous social activities. In summer we spend a number of weekends away camping either on the coast or one of the nearby lakes. We have rugby and football teams and many people get together for bike riding and there's a weekly poker night. It all goes on hold for the few months of winter when we're all busy as hell with winter guests at the ski resort although a big group get together for a darts night once a week and we try and get out now and again and have a ski together.

When I'm in Kutchan and see some tourists I'm always happy to lend a hand if they need directions or advice. I love this region, I love promoting it and I really love helping others to enjoy it as much as I do. It's one of the great things about my job here. I get to assist people in having what is for many the greatest ski holiday they've ever had. It's great to be a part of that.

We do get a few tourists each winter who take having a good time a little too far and there has been the occassional fight or two in bars at ski village but overall most people just have a good time without causing any trouble.

I never came to Japan to lose myself in it's culture or to be the only gaijin in the village! I'm very happy to live around and meet other foreigners.

I did, a few times. Where and when I was living in Japan there were very few foreigners. The small town I lived in had no hotels, because there were no tourist sites to see there, it was a place you pass through to get somewhere else. Anyway, a fellow JET and I were on the last train coming back from Osaka when we were shocked to see another foreign get off the train with us! He looked somewhat lost and distraught, so we asked him if we could help. It turnout out he had gotten on the wrong train, and there were no more trains heading back to Osaka until the morning. The other JET offered to let him stay at his apartment overnight, since the only other choice was sleeping in the train station, and it was a cold night. He was very grateful.

Another time, I was traveling in Kyushu by myself at Christmas time and felling kind of sad and lonely to not spend the holidays with anyone. I was in Nagasaki when I saw a fellow foreigner, so I struck up a conversation with him. Turned out he was an English teacher teaching in Korea, and had come to Japan for a vacation. We decided to hang out for the next couple days since our itinerary was nearly identical. It was good to have someone to talk to in English and help relieve the loneliness of my first Christmas in Japan by myself.

I don't get the "I want to be the only foreigner in Japan" concept. For me, living there long term in a small town and not speaking any of the language when I arrived (and only picking up simple q&a over my 2 years there), I was always very happy to talk with people in English.

So what? Are you saying that someone wearing Japanese style clothing is trying to 'be' Japanese.

That would mean that Japanese who learn English and wear English style clothing are trying to be westerners? How far up your ass is your head.

How about not try to chase *****, women don't respect men unless men respect them. In no way is trying to hunt down a girl ahead of time for your own pleasure respect.

Your nothing but a self hating gaijin.

And a sex maniac who fantasize Japanese women for all the wrong reasons....

hardly
 

No. Just a plain troll.

I love that description of the teacher. Perhaps a minor goal for myself, minus the big, loud English. I agree, however, with all of your points

Having spent so many years in a predominantly caucasian (redneck) town, I found it nice to see the rare gaijin while in Japan.

I found myself giving the "gaijin nod" but was disappointed not to get one in return.

I eventually came to realize that both of my parents are Japanese and that I look like a typical Japanese citizen. Hahaha!

LOL! I get the gaijin nod sometimes from Japanese people and wonder if they think all gaijin nod at each other all the time abroad because they see us do it now and then in Japan, and so they do it too haha ><

Honestly, I just thought that "Nod" thing was a "Universal" guy thing, not strickly limited to caucasians. For instance,Two guys walk by each other on the street and nod knowingly, cause everything is communicated in just that nod.

lol now I feel like I'm missing out on some telepathic skills!

unless it's the "yeah, my gf is hot, I know, so is yours by the way" kind of nod

Nah I allways thought it was the "Hi, how you doing" nod. Where you acknowledge each other and move on. That hot GF nod, that's a different nod there. :cool:

haha yeah that's the normal one.
Yeah Japanese guys don't do either of those.
If you nod you get the "what the hell, why am I getting nodded at?" look from them

So when I get a nod from a Japanese guy I feel like ... hmm ... am I missing something?

Ryzorian, it's one thing if it's someone I know and am friends with... it's another thing if it's just like some random guy in a crowded street I Tokyo or some other big city.

I'm kinda straying off topic, but I find it funny that it's like something that is almost strictly a white thing. My white nod ratio is much higher than my non-white non ratio by a lot. I do find it slightly funny, which I know isn't right.

When I happen upon foreigners in a kind of foreigner only situation-- like when I got my license, there's like no rules though. I've met people from all over the world who end up talking their heads off to me. I personally never considered it myself, but some of my Japanese friends tell me 'you've got a face that's easy to talk to'. Which is hilarious to me. Apparently having タレ目 is the cause of my symptoms. At least in these situations a conversation-- an exchange happens. 'Something that can't really be said about 'the nod', which I see as terribly hollow- especially in the context of a big city.

Their's like a reverse 'nod' in Japan though-- I'm sure you know what I mean if you have any colleagues here. It's like the informal bow. Instead of scooping up, you kind of put more emphasis on the downstroke.

Which brings up something entirely unrelated to this thread-- things like that are interesting to me. The American 'come here' gesture vs. the Japanese 'come here' gesture. The Japanese nod (if you can call it that) vs the American nod. I'm sure there are tons of others-- so pardon this last one- the Japanese use of a scrub plane, and the American use of a scrub plane. I've heard American/European luthiers will scrape/carve (don't know the word) away from themselves while Japanese luthiers will do it towards themselves. Interesting!

lol I just asked my buddy to tell me to come over using his head, you're dead on! it's the total opposite! I wonder how many other things like that there are o.O

Looks like something else in Japan I'll have to get used to. You try to communicate with random people on the street here, usually, they'll look at you like you've pulled your 'gentleman's sausage' out. (Bit of a Jeremy Clarkson term there)

I think it's more of an acknowledgement. Much like Corvette, Harley and convertible drivers/riders give each other the wave on the street.

Yeah that's the hot girlfriend nod. :vsign:

I feel a bit left out as I have never experienced this mysterious "nod" and wouldn`t know how to do one if my life depended on it.

Are you caucasian?

Yes.
But I didn`t come to Japan as an English teacher, and have been here from high school... So have no real adult life experience outside of the country.

So.... others know about the nod. -Nod- I've come across this nod but. Well. It's more of a jolt up rather than lowering the head down. The head down is with adults or respected persons and the jolt up is more for with friends. {At least that's what I've seen. It's kind of awkward to do it.}

*plooka plooka*

I'm an American that is based in Singapore and I travel around Asia a lot for my job, including Japan (mostly just Osaka and Tokyo). I read this forum occasionally but rarely comment. However, this time...

Isn't this called "My Japan Syndrome"? I've heard that term before and really noticed it with foreigners in Japan when I'm there, whereas in Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Indonesia, mainland China, Korea, etc I've not.

It really does seem to be the case that a lot of white people, for lack or a more precise term, want to have some kind of personal and exclusive relationship with the country and its people and anyone else intruding on that illusion is a problem.

It's cool if you've learned the language and live here and all that but jeez, you're whitey #5,212,745 to have done that, congrats. I'm just here for a two day business trip and I'm trying to meet someone at that damn little dog statue which I know is right around here somewhere, can you just kindly point which direction? Thanks. :)

That sounds interesting-- I'll have to look that up.

I guess it has a better ring than the Commodore Matthew Perry syndrome. ;)

Maybe it's possessiveness, like when a child finds a box of Candies and another child walks by lol

Japan is a lot more like a pot of gold to me than Korea, HK or Thailand (my experiences) ^^b

I had to check out a few things written about that "my japan syndrome". It was quite an interesting read. It's funny, though-- in all of the things I read there was a hint of jealousy. They all mentioned things like "just because I don't speak the language..." or "just because you have more Japanese friends...". One of them even closed it up with something along the lines of "come on down to -so and so- gaijin bar and chill out." I thought that was interesting.

From the way it seems, there are people going out of their way to hang out with only foreigners and there are people who go out of their way to avoid foreigners. I don't think that difference justifies elitism from either side involved, but I get the sense that it is there anyways (yes, on both sides).

Something that I noticed was missing in all arguments was the idea that a lot of foreigners (English speaking ones in particular) are not permanent. That is something that carries a lot of implications. It's like, "let's be friends, but just for a few months". In a sense, it's like getting into a relationship that you know can't possibly last. Ya, you can do it a few times and then find someone else and do it over and over again... But when it comes down to it, it was really empty and meaningless- with a hint of being detrimental in the long run.

Which takes me back to "the nod". "The nod", to me at least, reeks of this concept. It's uncomfortable. I don't know you and you don't know me. If we were to hang out, it'd only be once and we'd never see each other again-- then again, why would we hang out? So what's the point? Why the acknowledgment? Are these the people who go out and talk about how they hate people with the so-called "my japan syndrome"?

I know I'm not sin-free when it comes to "elitism" so maybe I shouldn't be finger-pointin', but what's the difference between the people who have "my japan syndrome" and the people bitching about it?

I've met plenty of interesting foreigners who I loved hanging out with. Finding a group that I could really talk to was a realization for me at the time-- I think I was kind of a "my japan syndrome" type for a period before that. Unfortunately, they have since moved away. I'm sure I could meet some really intelligent people who I could click with again, but why do that when I can spend time with good friends-- ones that I know are here to stay?

That's my take on it, anyways.

Well said MMM
 

Hear, hear! You know it's easy to get a feel for someone based on first impressions. Don't you go through weeks in Australia where you just get one person after another asking directions (it must be a vibe thing) And then you go for weeks when there are no directions requested. Whatever the filter, who cares.

I've had foreign and local lifesavers. Sometimes the interaction is very brief, but it is still appreciated. For someone who isn't fluent in Japanese, the sight of a gaijin can be welcome. There are other times where the behaviour is embarrassing. Not everyone is observant enough to assimilate (at least to a basic extent). Though eventually, Japan seems to rub off on people.

People is people. Whether they nod, smile or wink at each other, who cares? (Okay, so sometimes winking is a little creepy) No one knows anyone else's story at a glance, but you get a feel for whether you might have something in common. No one is marrying anyone, not bound in eternal friendship and certainly - as far as I know - there is no stealing of souls involved in human courteous acknowledgement (if the moment presents itself).

Honestly, I have had the most heart wrenching experiences in Japan, where the simplest of assistance has made me realise what being human is, more than anywhere else on earth. This from a place where I always thought "the nail that sticks out must be hammered in" What better place to learn how to be humble than Japan?

It's surely more about how people carry themselves, and how well founded they are in who they are. Those with a solid sense of self surely see people as people that little bit more.

I have to say that I agree with the general feel of what Steven is saying.

I don`t really associate with foreigners in Japan. I have one real "foreign" friend, associate regularly with one other... And know a handful but have no real relationships with them. I am a member of a couple foreign wife associations, but that is all passive and requires no real activity on my part. Direct contact with me is usually initiated when somebody needs something translated, or they need someone to go along with them to get an apartment, loan, etc etc. I think it would be a HUGE stretch to call any of those friendships, especially as I charge for the service.

I see no reason to be friends with someone JUST because we both weren`t born in this country. It`s silly, and reeks of elitism. We should be friends because we are "different"! Umm... No thank you. I wouldn`t have associated with you in *insert other country name*, why should I do so here? I think that is what it really comes down to.

It seems to me that to those who seek out other foreigners, not doing the same is "avoiding" other foreigners.

In my opinion, it`s no different than any other friend-making scenario. Those with something in common tend to end up in the same place. For me, simply being "not-Japanese" is not what I would consider something "in common" enough to start a friendship. And in my experience so far, those who do seek out friendships based on that one point are generally not the type of people I would have enough in common with to want to go out of my way to befriend.
There is generally something else driving that seeking, and it has yet to be something I have in common with them. For example - not speaking Japanese, not liking Japan, being an English teacher, wanting to pick up girls, etc.

I`m not so desperate for friendship that I would make an exception just because we`re both not Japanese.
If me having other options because I DO speak the language, do live here permanently, etc, would be considered "elitism" - then toss me in with the "elite". Seriously.

I don`t really give a crap about other foreigners being here. I don`t cringe or direct disgust in their direction should I run into any. I don`t care at all unless they`re doing something I don`t want to be associated with.
None of that is any different to how I feel about anyone I run into. If anything, I am probably one of the most balanced and fair people around when it comes to how I treat / respond to other foreigners. No differently than anyone else.
If not getting a special magical nod or not seeing me down at the local gaijin-bar hangout is me rejecting other foreigners, or having some weird possessiveness of Japan... Wow. Just more justification for not going out of my way to contact them. Obviously they`re not someone I want to waste my precious time on a friendship with.

Doesn't bother me either, but curiousity will usually take over. If they are a tourist/there for a limited time, fine. Let them get on with it. If they are living and working there, perhaps its a chance to make a non-Japanese friend, not that most people want that. I'd rather have more Japanese friends tbh. At least, your more likely to see the culture with people brought up there, and probably enjoy it much better. I've seen days where I wander about in a Glasgow Celtic football shirt, and I've seen people say "Good choice. You know the team to support" but I've also had (for Rangers fans mainly) negative comments thrown at me. Before I continue, I'd like to state that I ignore the comments, and they don't bother me. Most of the time its friendly banter. But surely, the same would be true of seeing another non-Japanese in Japan, the tendancy to comminicate and show appreciation for somebody the same (i.e.non-Japanese)

i love to see strangers, we get masses of foreign students in brighton i think one reason my japanese friend enjoys college is because of the international students that she meets there.

i will always say hi to anyone i meet in my own smallish town. a friendly smile can always light up some ones day.

When I was in Japan for my 3 weeks or so I was approached by foreigners or gaijins as well as Japanese people. I was also nodded at by several people and I just nodded back. But I'm used to the nod. I'm black and we do that a lot. One day in particular I was approached by a few dreadlocked men who I assumed were Jamaican. They asked me if everything was ok and if I needed any help while I was walking with my tour guide! I have been told that I have a very approachable look though. It's my big eyes!

I just didn't like to see the gaijin who acted like jerks since they were far from home. Most were really nice and I met people from places I might never have since we were all in the same boat in Japan.

Hmm, for starters it's gaijin, not "gaijins." There is no plural form in Japanese, leading me to believe you don't speak Japanese, meaning one thing: YOU'RE gaijin!

Even though I am part Japanese from a biological perspective, culturally I am 100% American. I don't speak a lick of Japanese and know nothing about their culture. That means I'm gaijin as well. (But then again, even if I spoke Japanese fluently and was born and raised there, I'd still be seen as gaijin because I am only 3/8 Jap.)

So you're asking if I get annoyed seeing someone else basically? No, unless I know them to be annoying. Haters gonna hate. That is all.

So many posts stating that it isn't that 'you are hating on foreigners, but more that you wouldn't be friends or extend yourself over the simple concept of just both being or living in a foreign land together' are ironic.

You are posting on a centralized subject matter message board to STRANGERS. Some of you with thousands of posts. You extend yourself here, but have some issue with most likely a lot of the same type of people that you might come across in Japan? I don't entirely buy the logic.

Eh, personally I post here cause I just like yapping.