Japanophile - and other open discussion

[ryuurui]

Originally Posted by godwine

3. Sales tax i 5% right?

going up to 10% very soon. Lifting tax on certain goods I would understand, but the same tax on everything seems like another air brain scheme for me.

Income tax is betweenn 10 - 50% depending on your, well, income. over 10 mln a year is 50%.

Corp tax - nfi.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ryuurui

oh sorry my bad, i thouhgt that honest social interactions were the usual way to go, but I guess I was wrong. I did not say that Japanese way of thinking is inferior, I simply do not agree with certain paterns. We all judge people - you did as well by saying that I think that Japanese people's way of thinking is inferior, did you not lol? Mind you, you even followed "my" way of thinking by being open and saying what you think of me. Ironic, innit.

Are you saying "my bad" because you honestly feel you did something wrong?

[ryuurui]

Originally Posted by MMM

Are you saying "my bad" because you honestly feel you did something wrong?

come on MMM....

[godwine]

Originally Posted by ryuurui

going up to 10% very soon. Lifting tax on certain goods I would understand, but the same tax on everything seems like another air brain scheme for me.

Income tax is betweenn 10 - 50% depending on your, well, income. over 10 mln a year is 50%.

Corp tax - nfi.

Ok, so income tax is similar to Canada then, i think ours go somewhere between 25-49%..first 10K is tax free, and I don't think its 49%if its beyond 100K, i think to get hit with 49% if for 150K plus.. that i am not sure (i don't make that kind of money)

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ryuurui

come on MMM....

Or are you employing sarcasm... a common form of communication that is difficult for native speakers of Japanese to understand?

[ryuurui]

I thought Nyororin was not Japanese.
And even if she is not a native speaker, her English is way too good for not catching this. I am surprised you didn't.

Yeah, man I was being sarcastic.

Aanyways, we have moved to taxes now.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ryuurui

I thought Nyororin was not Japanese.
And even if she is not a native speaker, her English is way too good for not catching this. I am surprised you didn't.

Yeah, man I was being sarcastic.

Aanyways, we have moved to taxes now.

So I guess my point was made clear. Westerners like to use honest and direct communication...except when they don't, for example when they use sarcasm. Sarcasm is saying the opposite of what you really mean (the opposite of honest and direct communication) but the LISTENER understands it is sarcasm and understands what you are trying to say.

Isn't this exactly what Nyororin was talking about with Japanese communication? Someone who understands the communication style will understand the truth behind indirect communication. Someone who doesn't won't. I have met many Japanese who struggled with sarcasm, as they can't understand the reasoning or humor behind saying the the opposite of what one means.

[ryuurui]

Well deducted. I am used to use sarcasm with people that get it, and, since we speak in English, I thought that what i said was straight forward enough (even though it was wrappe3d in sarcasm). But no matter, from now on, I will not be sarcastic, I will just barge in and split the head open with a blade of the post's axe. You are splitting hairs, you do know that? You would make a great accountant.

I must say you are right with what you are saying about Asians in general and them not getting sarcasm. When I met my wife, she did not understand the abstract humor at all (based on sarcasm). She actually thoght I am an idiot (still, there are days when i wonder if her original diagnosis wasn't correct, lol ). Took her years to get it, and now she loves it. Ironically, she is even more direct than me, hence the affection.

The Japanese people do understand it, but I think only those who actually lived abroad. Though I agree, that it is not easy for them to "feel it". It is a cultural thing and can't be helped.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by ryuurui

Well deducted. I am used to use sarcasm with people that get it, and, since we speak in English, I thought that what i said was straight forward enough (even though it was wrappe3d in sarcasm). But no matter, from now on, I will not be sarcastic, I will just barge in and split the head open with a blade of the post's axe. You are splitting hairs, you do know that? You would make a great accountant.

I still don`t think that you are getting the point he is trying to convey.

It isn`t about whether anyone here involved in this discussion would understand or not. It is that there are different ways of communicating. You expect people to understand the sarcasm because you`re speaking in English, and your audience is expected to have a cultural background to make it clear.
People communicating using an indirect Japanese style are also doing the exact same thing - they`re expecting the people they are communicating with will understand exactly what they want to say without writing it on the wall. Just because someone who does not have that background doesn`t "get it", it does not make it dishonest. Those who are accustomed to it will not have any trouble understanding. You cultural background makes you want to have it all said clearly - but that doesn`t mean that there is an actual problem with the Japanese style, especially when between people who both understand it.

The Japanese people do understand it, but I think only those who actually lived abroad. Though I agree, that it is not easy for them to "feel it". It is a cultural thing and can't be helped.

You`re contradicting yourself (unless you think of Japanese as something other than human, but I don`t think that`s your intent). They don`t understand it well unless they have been abroad and exposed to it - it simply isn`t present in the culture.

Indirect communication is also a cultural thing, which is not present in a lot of other cultures. How does this make it any more "wrong" than sarcasm?

[ryuurui]

This is becoming an academic sdiscussion that brings nothing new, so it is my last input. I do not think you guys really understand what i am talking about. Through indirect speach, even though you understand the message, you are not getting the full picture (you don not know why he is giving you indirect message that he wont come to your party, but you have no idea why, and sicne the culture forbids you to ask directly, all you are left with is rumors). That is the problem. Direct speach clears the air, indirect one creates fog. And it builds up.

And i really dont give as damn if you guys wanna talk in morse code, i don't do it and that is it.

I am an artist, I contradict myself while brushing my teeth. You don't understand the chemistry until you learn about it. Same thing here, lol...You do realise thsat sacrasm can be more direct than actually saying something directly. It has bigger impact.