Animals Suffering in Japan
 

I have just read the following on PetaAsiaPacific.com (PETA Asia Pacific ) and find it very upsetting that the Japanese government is not taking action to help the farm animals which are inside the 20-kilometre no-go zone of the Fukushima power plant. Many farm animals are dying of starvation and dehydration due to the government not allowing the animals to be transferred to a safe place where they can be cared for. Please follow the link and urge the Japanese government to take immediate action to stop these poor animals suffering.

MM why have you threatened to ban thes posts if what they say is TRUE.

Clearly because the poster posted the same thing multiple times. I generously erased all but one of the several posts made saying the exact same thing.

I have not seen the other posts but it is worrying if these animals are abandoned and left to starve to death. Better to put them to sleep than to neglect them if they are still incarcerated in Pens etc.

if they're starving to death how are they still alive almost 2 months later? :eek:

clearly all farm-animals are completely incapable of eating the grass around them without the aid of people, specialized people no less

they're still alive 2 months later because a long long drawn out death is much more dramatic than simple starving after a few days... how else could the media, and people who love nothing more than to bitch about nonsense, make anything of it?

lets hope you are right and that they did die if they were not saved.

Cattle have a hard enough existence already--


I wonder how much is actually being done for all those farmers if they cannot return to their homes.

Will they be allocated somewhere else to set up again?

what if there Is no Grass or other fodder for the animals and also it would be contaminated.

I am afraid that starvation is also a way that many old people are encouraged to die, rather than give them an easy way out--I am not talking about Japan here either.

Nil by Mouth-- slow death. surely it should be illegal but it happens

James-- maybe it should be YOU who were penned up and left with nothing to eat-- then call it Nonsense.

That sounds entirely reasonable and perfectly sensible.

The animals immediately affected by the tsunami died in that moment as did the people around them.

Those that survived the event likely starved and died within a few days after the event.

Those which are still alive today are those which were not hit by the tsunami, had food the entire time, and still do have food.

There is no logical or reasonable argument for why any of these "poor" animals would have survived until today and suddenly now need our help.

The OP's kind of plea is a common call to a basic emotional response of protect those which can't protect themselves etc etc

You've fallen into it face first, stand up and think please.

Enormous amounts of relocation have already occurred.
I myself am teaching 2 students who had lived in Tohoku and were relocated to Kobe. They seem to be doing more than fine.

Sorry, but the Japanese government has its hands full with helping PEOPLE right now.

I know that this is probably something that is hard for you to accept, but most of the world puts human welfare above the welfare of animals (thank God).

so its okay to leave animals helpless and to starve.

farmers will need their stock replenished.

I take it that you think you are superior to animals God give me animals compared to some selfish people who think they are something special.

So if reseources are already extremely stretched and limited you think domesticated animals should be treated no differently to humans? Utterly ridiculous. I believe it is okay to leave domesticated animals to starve when human interests are just a pressing. We can always breed more animals without any problem at all. God didn't create domesticated cattle, sheep, etc (if you believe in such rubbish as gods). Humans did through selective breeding.

I watched on NHK Newsline a little while ago that they were sending crews out there to put down all the cattle and pets found in the exclusion zone.

Basically what Gonative said, but yes, when resources are stretched I do believe a little girl's livelihood (or whoever), takes precidence over cow's. I am sorry that such an idea seems so heartless to you, but I do value the lives of humans over animals that would feast on my rotting corpse no matter what I would do to help save them. Humans may be capable of horrible things, but I will take them over animals anyday. You wanna go live in the wild with the animals, be my guest, you can find out first hand how all those wonderful animals will treat you.

Imagine that you lost your house and everything in it. Maybe even members of your family. Imagine that you`re now living in a "shelter", which is really just a school gymnasium with a few partitions set up in it.
Imagine that the government is working hard to set up somewhere for you to go for the long term, but that it`s taking time because of the massive scale. They`re also still working to recover human remains - hopefully they will be able to find those of your family...

Now... Imagine that you hear that instead of trying to find the remains and to secure long term lodgings for the survivors - they have shifted their efforts over to finding and providing aid for livestock.

When they haven`t even found your missing relatives. When you`re still sleeping on a donated blanket on the floor, just getting by on donated food...

I think there would be a bit of outrage.

I don`t think it is so much that no one cares about the animals. It`s just that PEOPLE are still the priority. Tracking down the escaped cattle of farmer A who was swept away with his house comes pretty far AFTER finding long term shelter for his orphaned children and finding his remains to bring closure. Maybe after all that is taken care of, there will be enough resources to think about the animals too...

If you feel the animals should have priority in a disaster situation, I ask you to make that clear should you ever be involved in one. Please make sure to tell all the groups who would try to help you to STOP helping you and your family, and to shift their efforts to local livestock. To stop building a house for you to live in, and instead build a shed for the animals.
Somehow, I doubt this is how you would feel if you were truly in such a situation. Even farmers who rely on livestock to make a living are not going to choose to save their animals when they are unable to stay near them or care for themselves at the moment - let alone the animals.

There are multiple groups that are providing shelter for animals. There are a number of groups that are rescuing animals from inside the affected areas and finding places for them to go. The Japanese government isn`t stopping them, but isn`t helping either as there simply are not free resources to do so. They have their hands full with the huge number of displaced people and the cleanup.

Someone forwarded me this link last week:

:smokingbear: Against The Stream - A Contrarian's Blog: One Day in Fukushima

Of course I know that the people have to come first but it is the attitude that animals do not matter compared to human beings that angers me.


Many animals are treated badly and cruelly on a daily basis-- I am not talking Japan here-- I mean generally.


If animals could talk-- I think there would be different attitude. Many treat animals as mere commodities--Factory farming, Laborotories testing for US.

countries such as China where cats and dogs are skinned alive for their pelts.

Animals feel pain just as we do.



I sincerely hope that all the Japanese people do get the vital help that they need--that the money and aid goes where it should and that some are not left out.

It will take trillions of Yen to try to revive Japan.

I gather that there are so many volunteers being told to stay away because it is too hard to accommodate them.

Japan has a mammoth task ahead. I worry about those within the radiation dangers.

Yes I too am not totally stupid-- Of course the human beings come first-- its just that animals always suffer in these circumstances-- such as in wars.

Perhaps we should get rid of all the animals in ther world and all the fishes in the sea-- and live without the sustenance. Human beings are also animals.

If you have a problem with someone - contact a mod. If you have a problem with a mod (MMM), contact a DIFFERENT MOD (Me, for example).

I do not know what has happened between the two of you, but seriously, this is neither the time nor the place.
I have not seen anywhere on this board where MMM has been displaying a nasty attitude, but as I`ve been mostly away for the past week I cannot say I have been keeping up with everything. Enlighten me - via PM. If there is a need for action, I will take it up with him. Throwing random fits that are completely off topic will definitely not help your cause.

whoa how did this go from emotional to melodramatic in a heartbeat?
There are usually a few more pages of posts before that all begins...

For the record, I talk the same in person, to everyone, and luckily they don't misunderstand it as a nasty tone of voice ><

Beforehand, sorry for meddling.

I understand, that you are concerned about other living beings, but why do you need to spread anger and hate in here? I mean, there is a lot of hate in this world already, why do you need to create more? Do you really enjoy your feelings of frustration?

If someone dislikes your point of view, simply don't react to that, if it helps, think of them as not being worthy enough of your hatred, you save your time, and you save theirs.

If this was in someway too offtopic, please delete this post.

I thought this thread was about the suffering of animals--not that anyone seems to actually Care about that at all--

Dangauss it seems I have upset you too.

If someone comes on here giving English/ American lessons-- they should not be surprised if an English native might also have something to say or to offer.

You wanted to sell your book--

I objected to some of the language being taught-- also the fact that apparently only experts in teaching English are supposed to respond-- making someone like myself feel inadequate. Its like an elitist society.

like some secret version of the language that an English person cannot possibly convey.

Teachers of the English language seem to act as if they are superior to others.

I wonder what happens when foreigners meet ordinary English people-- .

You posted helpful advice-- which some people took to be wonderful.

But you still have to deal with someone like me who may object to certain

aspects.

Sorry if I have upset you but I am entitled to respond just as much as anyone else.

by the way-- I love animals---------.

I tried to hold myself back, but I really just have to get this off my chest.

I'm deeply touched by this, and I feel the animals should be treated just as urgently as people.

Heh... here comes the hate I bet.

I'd do anything to help an animal. I'd give years off my life to save even one cow. Depending on how badly it was suffering, maybe even my whole life.
Please, I know you probably think I'm really over-reacting, but I'm far from it.

One time, a big teenager kicked a pigeon in a town I was in. You know what I did. Without a SHRED of thought, I ran up behind him and planted him a punch right in the back of the head. It's instinct to me. I don't care he may have carried a knife or not, I don't care he could have beat me to a pulp. The ONLY thing I cared about was helping that pigeon.

I wouldn't even like to say which life I value more, an animal's or a human's, because by the looks of it no one here will like my answer.

I'd never donate an organ to a person because I could be giving it to a drugie or such. I'd NEVER take that risk. At least an animal couldn't abuse it.

I agree lots with what dogsbody is saying here too, of course as you can see.

Well, I'm sorry if I've offended anyone with my post. I just couldn't hold it back.
I hope that this won't change anyone's opinions towards me too badly, it's just who I am.

there is terrible animal cruelty-- even here in UK.

factory farming, really cruel. Laborotory Tests on animals.

we are supposed to be a nation of animal lovers--but there is abuse or neglect all around.


Wilful cruelty where cats are shot with airguns or set on fire-- there was a period where Horses were being attacked-- all around the country.

There has to be something sick with so called human beings who deliberately set out to abuse and torture animals.


This would be a sad world without animals. I just detest the attitude that they are just there for our convenience-- and we can do with them what we will.


Humans are not superior to animals. In fact in many ways Humans are so much worse.


Do animals set out to kill hundreds of people. Those that kill to survive-- do they go on to kill hundreds more just because they hate them.

This world would be dreadful without animals. They have evolved through the years for specific purposes.


If they could actually TALK-- I think many things would change. No, give me animals any day.

helping animals to me feels like such a strange topic because of the extent to which animal activists will go to save a dog or a cow etc and yet completely ignore or dismiss the people in the world who are in far more need of that help...

then there are the hypocrites who would help a cow with a burger in hand
if that example is too direct, then buying products from a company which supports or owns subsidiaries which in turn treat animals badly

animals do need help
people need it more

it's a simple question of priority

That's a totally excellent point. There was a famous case here a while back, animal rights activists dug up the remains of a man's grandma and kept them hostage until he freed the animals he had in his possession (drugs testing, I think - although forgetting that without testing on something/someone we'd have no drugs, thus a lot more deaths and suffering). I dislike how animal rights activists treat people as if they don't matter: threatening friends/family, digging up remains, vandalising houses . . .

Animals matter, but so do people.

On a slightly more on-topic note! I think in this circumstance the Japanese have the priority of helping their people, not the animals. There's people homeless, in shelters, starving, loved one's still officially missing . . . I love animals, adore them, and yeah people can suck, but I would rather get a population back on its feet than to save one cow. Let's face it, without people the animals would suffer all the more. You need farmers and vets and animal shelters, and for those you need people.

That was the guy from the Oxford medical labs. Not related to the Uni, but yeah, he had a lot of guinea pigs and small mammals for lab tests (all kinds, not necessarily medicines).

I can see WHY animal rights activists protest about the use of mice and things for research, but it really bothers me that you never hear a peep about, you know the several million pound budget London has per annum solely dedicated to poisoning mice across the capital, or that pigeons and grey squirrels are pretty much required to be euthanised if bought in for vet treatment. Or that they have men employed to go about smashing birds eggs. If they really cared that much about saving animals lives, I think you'd hear about this, but no.

This is a perfect example of why animal rights makes no sense. There is a reason all those mice are poisoned .. because they are pests. Animals are just animals, they are out for survival and they will do whatever it takes to achieve that goal. It is the law of the jungle and animals could give a crap about humans. Now humans being better than animals.. with that thing we call a sense of humanity, can make responsible choices in how animals are treated/slaughtered/euthanized. I think that it is what is important and what real animal rights should be about, not this foolishness of putting the lives of animals above human beings.

Huh? Do you even see the irony in what you write? You are saying others are rude in their attitudes then YOU are threatening REAL LIFE violence on them...Wow if you cannot see how wrong and ridiculous that is.

Reminds me of religious fanatics who attack others when confronted with a different ideology.

So anyways back to the animals... I don't think anyone here is for the suffering of animals, simply a lack of resources and triage. As Nyo stated the priority is people at the moment.

For the animals first people... Your house is burning down your mother and cat are trapped inside...you can only save one (lack of resources just as the Japanese Gov is experiencing) which do you save? Where is your humanity if you chose to save the cat?

Thanks for playing...Now if the stance of the Japanese government was all the people are fine and safe and everything is peachy...we just feel like watching the animals slowly die this would be a whole different story, but it's not and there still are people suffering.

Humans should be responsible for animals under their care.

I don't need the scenario that has already been expressed. I am not totally stupid.

I hate the attitude that animals don't matter.


Is it Buddhists that believe in reincarnation and we could return as some kind of insect or animal.They would not kill any animal-- Is that true?


I trust my dogs rather than trust most human beings.

I do agree with you, but I don't think anyone has expressed that animals don't matter, merely that the priority here is for the humans.

I mean, you seem to adore animals and you sound like a wonderful breeder (as I remember you mentioned a while back), but your dogs depend on you. They need you to feed them, look after them, discipline them and so forth. The thing is what would happen if something happened to you? If you were - God forbid - injured or on Death's door, who would look after your animals then? They'd starve and suffer and perhaps die, too, if no one found them in time.

Animals need humans to survive in many circumstances, so its surely our duty to prioritise the humans so that the animals stand a fighting chance. If we don't have people to correct the current situations involving environment, resources, and so forth then the animals are doomed regardless. It is because humans are responsible for the animals that we must look after ourselves first, in order to be in a position where we can look after the animals.

my family will take my dogs.

Yes humans are supposed to be responsible for the care of their livestock.

Sadly that is often abused-- especially with factory farming etc.

The recent disaster in Japan was shocking--------farmers losing their livestock when they relied on them for a living.

Japan has suffered a great deal--No doubt many of them are still suffering in various ways-- and with the problem of radiation--what is their future?

No I got cross with some attitudes on here-- talking as though animals suffering doesn't matter a toss. humans are so much more important and superior than any animal. I disagree with that. We need animals.

What if we had been born as a wild animal or any other animal apart from the human.Would we have had a choice. Did we have a choice that we would be born into a human shape? do the animals have a choice.

If we were born as some other animal where we had no choice at all- just a chance to survive-- how would we feel. Animals do have feelings-- they know pain and they do not usually kill for the sake of killing-- but what do humans do?

again I repeat-- if animals could talk-- things would be different.

I haven't heard of that case...
Please don't hate me for this... I'm not trying to spark an argument, but in my opinion a person who abuses so many animals for testing deserves every drop of pain he got by having the remains taken. Maybe then he may feel a little closer to the combined suffering of those animals.

And from what I learned back in biology class, there are many, many disadvantages of testing for human drugs that basically null animal testing, such as the different immune systems and bodies.

Attitudes like that are exactly what's wrong with the world, and treatment of animals today.
Humans are animals too, we just use our inteligence as a cheat sheet to 'survival.' If you were trapped in the jungle, assuming you had the skills, you'd do exactly the same as animals.

And about them just being pests. May be a well used comparison, but I'll bring it up again.
If aliens who were a LOT bigger and more intelligent than us came, and considered us pests, you would be okay with that? "We're just pests, so it's okay we all should die right? I bet the aliens have an awesome reason anyway."

And what about animals who are more intelligent than humans? For example, a rat that can complete a maze, a dolphin that has a full communication system, vs a human who's braindead, or severely mentally disabled, who can't do any of these things. Do you consider these people more of a pest than the animals in that case? Because if I read your logic correctly, that's what I'm getting from it.

kind of... yeah, actually...

So you think that humans have no moral compass? We are just like the animals? All instincts and survival...no compassion, love, critical reasoning?:rolleyes:


I am not going to answer to your aliens comparison because just writing it shows you missed the point. So here is the point:

Ever heard of oh.. let's say.. the bubonic plague? If so.. you would just be okay with rats running rampant carrying fleas that kill thousands of people with a deadly disease, sorry.. but once again I value the lives of people over animals. And I apologize to you that I would pick your life over that of a rats... will you ever forgive me??

Last time I checked brain dead people do not necessarily carry deadly diseases..

Your entire response to me tells me that you thought this through with your heart, not your head (how human of you), since you could not seem to comprehend what I meant by pests, and making responsible choices in how we treat animals.

If you want to believe that the lives of animals are just as or more important than humans, that is fine, but I will say again I am glad that most of the world does not think this way.. and I am sure the people in Tohoku right now are glad that the people in charge are focusing their attention on them and not a bunch of cows.

At the risk of a morality debate, are you seriously saying it's okay to hurt a person because they hurt someone/something else? If so, and you're okay with stooping to their level and being somewhat hypocritical regarding how inflicting pain is wrong, then how do you judge what level of retaliation is appropriate? Also - in this specific case - how do you justify causing pain to other family members, and disrespecting the remains of an eldery woman who is innocent?

On a less subjective note, I would rather test medicines initially on animals than on people. There's been many cases with humans being critically injured, disabled or killed for having volunteered to test drugs. I would rather test on animals, specifically vermin and pests, because - as mentioned - they harbour diseases and the like and are more of a plague to mankind than a benefit, and that way test on humans when I have a relative idea that it's safe to. Yes, I also value humans more than animals. Like RickOShay said, I would 99% of the time choose a human life over that of an animals, if your mother and your pet rat were both dying and you could only choose one, which would you pick? Final comment, yes, testing on rats alone would be stupid, but, as I said, surely it's better to test on them initially before moving onto humans?

I realise this is a very subjective, emotive argument, but I really think there's little else to be said that other members haven't already said, and much more eloquently too.

Which animal would save a human, care for him, feed him etc? NONE!
Which human would save an animal in distress, care for it, feed it? Almost anyone!
Stop comparing us to animals, thats just nonsense.

From what do you think the word humane comes? And who is more humane, the animals or the humans? A dog, a cat, even rats, kill the pups of another from the same race just to have its genes past on, which people do that?
Bad people will always exist, but they are not the majority. There will always be animal haters, rapists, serial killers, even bullies that would like to pick on someone. But that means we are not better than the animals? Come on.... WAKE UP!
This isn't about not wanting to save, it's exactly what anyone said, there aren't enough people to care even for the people in that area.