I knew a few kids who didn't have swastika tattoos on their forehead and neck, but were still total 'dicks'. Where are they now?

I certainly hope you do not mean 'people with tattoos' when you are calling out 'people like you'. I don't really appreciate being told that I'm causing my country to fail, and you're naturally successful just because I happen to have a tattoo. I wasn't aware that by getting it I was signing a document declaring me doomed to failure.

Throwing around 'people like you' phrases don't make your points anymore valid than his. They just make you come off as a 'total dick'

I have a feeling he is talking about Tenchu's rather pointed and hateful comments towards Japan.

Nathan, as MMM points out, I am on Tenchu's tail on that post.

I don't have any issue with tattoo's but rather the people who go around pissing on Japan because they don't understand about Onsen rules.

I also hope that when I said "people like you" you were not putting yourself in the same line as Tenchu if you read his posts.
If you read his posts and agree with him then you can take it that the "people like you" reference is indeed aimed at you.

I have tried to remain neutral on this subject, but I feel its is time for me to say something. Tenchu, having tattoos, and being a practitioner of muay thai myself I completely agree with you that tattoos should be accepted everywhere and by everyone especially those of religious meaning. But, this argument isn't supposed to be about people that don't accept tattoos. This argument is about onsens that turn tattooed people away. Just because they turn you away doesnt mean that they don't accept you or your tattoos, what they dont accept is the said yakuza, and the only way to keep them out without causing trouble is to ban ALL people with tattoo's from the onsen, and is not meant as an insult or a way to discriminate people with tattoos. I hope that you can change your mind about the Japanese people because how can they accept our culture if we can't accept theirs, "do onto others as you wish others to do onto you".

That's a good point Redline. Outside of the onsen setting, those very people who said 'sorry, no entry' might well be very accommodating of a person and their tattoos. There's a further line of distinction between the rules of the business and personal preference. You never know, onsen owners who do allow in those with tattoos might get a lot of grief from communities surrounding them or their contemporaries, as owning a 'hotbed for yakuza' and 'bringing down the standards of the tradition' and so forth. Their personal preferences and opinions might be quite different.

I think the point about the celebs with tattoos is a good point as well, but at the same time, Onsen and V-kei are aimed at very different audiences. I'd met plenty of young Japanese who had never been to an onsen, or even to a temple, but listened to rock music, and the exact reverse amongst the older generations. In short, I don't think celebs with tattoos tend to be the staple of the grannies and salarymen who ARE the staple of onsen. As for the adult film actress, well, but no matter how successful you are in that profession, it's still surrounded by an air of sleaze and considered a bit 'dirty'. In fact, she could technically be damaging the general view of women with tattoo's by marking them as porn actresses and loose women.

Anyway, I think it's fair to say that opinions towards tattoos might be changing, but that might not be a wholly universal change in Japan; just certain demographics.

So....you're an ignorant, bigoted fool, aren't you? :ywave:


You should have thought about that before you chose to get tattoos, fool.


LOL! Is there any chance in the universe that you could make it in Sumo? I reckon the tats are the least of the reasons why you never would.


And you're the definition of an ignorant, racist asshole.

Way to be hypocritical man. All you did was insult him and made no effort at all to argue a point on why he is wrong. Also he didn't exactly have a choice with getting a tattoo. Tattoo's are religiously part of muay thai don't make fun of it.

All I intended to do was insult him. That is all a filthy racist merits. And he obviously had a choice in getting tattooed. I couldn't give less of a crap about his tattoos. He sounds like the kind of young dope who ends up getting inked up all over his neck and hands and all that at 22 and spends the rest of his days pretending he can't understand why no one takes him seriously. You know, an idiot.

to associate tattoos with criminal organizations is ridicoulous.

In Japan, it isn't. Traditionally, many yakuza get tattoos and very, very few Japanese that are not yakuza get tattoos. That may be changing nowadays, but Japan can still be a very traditional society in many ways, and tattoos are instinctual linked to criminals in many Japanese minds.

Tattoos = Criminal organizations in Japan. Ridiculous or not, that is reality.

yeah it really sucks. but having a tatto in japan shows that you are a criminal or worse Part of Yakuza. so i'd be warry

yeah I get what yall are saying. It's embedded in yalls ideology respectfully. But if you look at it without any culture or ideology affecting it, associating people who have tattoos with criminal organizations is to associate people who wear clothes with criminal organizations. There is always going to be bad and good in every type of group whether it be race, gender, type of work, etc.. and to stereotype a certain group into a morally wrong organization is prejudice.

There's good and bad Japanese people
There's good and bad Mexican people
There's good and bad females
There's good and bad doctors
There's good and bad priests
There's good and bad old people
and there's good and bad young people.

As I said before I know it is embedded in your ideology respectifully..
but it is good to think without any boundries, to have a free mind.
You will realize what life and people really have to offer.

We understand where you're coming from Jay, but this isn't about OUR personal views of tattoos. Personally I don't mind them, but in Japan, as has already been pointed out, there's a huge social stigma associated with tattoos.

Point in case; at the games festival in Tokyo this very week, a British game designer was reported in the Daily Telegraph talking about the difficulties foreign designers have breaking into the Japanese market and his exact point was that in the UK it's standard to have a protagonist with tattoos but that isn't allowed in Japan. Same with characters with missing fingers.

Jay until recently in Japan there really was only one kind of person who got tattoos: gangsters. So maybe it's not fair to stereotype, but the stereotype was reality.

Ok, you're a dick.

what about a foot tattoo? can you get away with something like that or it's all the same (in terms of getting into an onsen)?

The point is, if the people the onsen are trying to keep out catch wind that the onsen is letting certain people with tattoos in, then there will be hell to pay. So the answer would be "no entry".

Well, despite having to filter though all the bitching it's at least shead some light on the original point.

I have 1 tattoo, on my back. It has no meaning, it's simply something i designed myself which looks good on me.
I don't see the problem with being not allowed in. In all honesty from the 2 reasons given (yakuza and tattoos being a sign of a weak person) i would have to say the latter is the one which is stupid.

If tattoos are associated with gang culture in Japan then i'm more than happy to keep mine covered at all times. Which only stops me going anywhere with my top off in public.
However, to associate them with weak people due to cultural history is naive. However i very much doubt that many in modern Japan think that at all. Maybe only the oldest and most traditional.
Because at the end of the day they would surely know that in other cultures tattoos have a different meaning, and have nothing to do with how strong a person someone is.

Other cultures in my experience are never as bad as what western media makes them out to be.
I've recently been to a Muslim country, and visited a Mosque.
From what i've heard in our media then i expected everyone to be religeous and to be very very strict.
How wrong that view is...most Muslims are VERY lax in their religion, probably almost as relaxed about it as Christians are in the UK.
They might loosly follow the religion, but they rank family above all else, they rank having fun and earning a good living above religion.
They also didn't mind foreigners being of another religion, or even not being religeous at all like myself.

Every country has it's traditions and i think you should respect them. But most countries also don't follow their traditions as much as people think, especially in the modern towns and cities.
At the end of the day not many people want to sacrifice having a good life just to follow age old traditions which prohibit from doing so many fun and interesting things.


However i also firmly believe that if you visit another country as a tourist, you should at least make an effort to understand their ways and to speak the basics of their language out of respect.




1 more point...you know that most of these policies talked about are present in western society too. Sometimes it's just more relaxed view on it.

Muslims countries do not allow drinking in public, on the streets etc. Er, neither does the UK.

Japan won't allow tattoos in certain areas...neither does the UK.
(most pubs/bars won't allow tattoos on show as they are still associated with violence)


These rules are not as 'extreme' as people make them out to be.

It's all about give and take!

I never knew about that in the UK :confused:

Maybe it's localised to certain areas. But in Newcastle and places up here a lot of bars will not allow people in with tattoos showing on their lower arms.

I just got one on my back so nobody ever see's it.

Actually the Yakuza tattoo's are awesome and some of the designs are very ancient, from a time when tattoos were viewed in a different way.
Now though, they are bad.
Also some peoples idea of a great tattoo is downright offensive to other people.