If my post was too "poetic", well, I am not going to apologize for that. The question struck me and I gave an empassioned and truthful answer.

Noodle, to say that presentation is not a vital part of Japanese cuisine is just plain silly.

Essential Japanese Cooking: Japanese Serving Dishes and Food Presentation in Japanese cuisine

Japanese Food MeSay

"Japanese Restaurants
In addition to being delicious and healthy, Japanese cuisine is also known for its beautiful presentation."

Japanese Cooking Utensils and Serving Dishes: ThingsAsian

"Remember that presentation is as important as preparation"

Japanese Cooking DVDs course syllabus Tsuji Culinary Institute

"Beautiful presentation is an essential ingredient in Japanese cooking."

I don't think you give Japanese people enough credit.

I don't know about your Chinese myths, but chopsticks in Japan are NEVER used to pierce food, unless to slice a large piece of tofu in half.

Why would you say "back in the day real people ate like pigs". What a silly thing to say. Sure, back in the caveman days.

Food being appealing to all the senses is hardly a western thing. Have you ever had a meal in England or Ireland?

Noodle, you need to check you facts a little better on this one. I would say the same to Tenchu, but I know he doesn't care.

MMM, i don't think you understood/read my post clearly...

first.. i didn't ask you to apologize for poetic replies, i just said that i agree a little with what tenchu said.

secondly.. I said that the reason people use chopsticks hasn't got anything to do with presentation... but that doesn't mean that they don't put a lot of effort into presentation... all good restaurants in the world go all out on presentation these days..

thirdly.. what does giving japanese people credit have anything to do with this? if i didn't appreciate the japanese culture, i wouldn't be on this website and i wouldn't be looking forward to living in japan next year.

fourthly.. that was my point with the chinese myth about chopsticks... as they NEVER stab or pierce, they believed this was the reason they used chopsticks.... i hope that makes sense. anyway, just read what i wrote previously more carefully!

fiftly.. back in the day people did eat like that in most countries in the world because 99.9% of people were poor at some point in their countries history. So many people actually ate using their hands or they shared their food in a big dish etc (hence the reason chinese food is still shared and is not seperated out into each plate in the way that western food is done)...

sixthly.. have you ever eaten a meal in a french restaurant???? french food is actually famous for the presentation and extravagence etc of it. not actaully taste... It is the westerners that first started presenting their food nicely (for the rich aristocrats usualy)

I`m going to jump in.
While I usually agree with MMM, and almost never agree with Tenchu (sorry :P ) I do have to say that MMM`s explanation is a bit too far removed from reality.
Like a romanticized version.

I think that people stick with chopsticks because it`s just easier to manipulate your food with them. You`re actually holding on to your food, and not balancing it (spoon) or stabbing it (fork).

It`s sort of like, say, a pen. Yes, there are pens that are truly works of art, which provide pleasure when you use them. But I think you`ll agree that 99.9% of the time, you`re not thinking about that while you use a pen. It`s an efficient writing implement - just as chopsticks are an efficient eating utensil. There is nothing particularly special about it, just as there isn`t anything special about using chopsticks to the average Japanese person. It`s only when it becomes something rare or ceremonial that all these meanings appear.

That`s why you`ll find tons of people in the US/elsewhere with all these deep interpretations. In modern Japan, chopsticks are the next step up from spoon and fork. Spoons and forks are easy to use, but sloppy. Children use them regularly.... Until they are old enough to manage chopsticks.
To go back to the pen idea - spoons and forks are crayons. Chopsticks are pens. Sure, you can write with a crayon... But except for special circumstances, once you can use a pen, would you *want* to?

I think you`ve totally missed the point.

So... The easiest way is always the best? Even if there is a slightly more difficult, but more efficient way to do something?
If we really want to get down to the point, wouldn`t it be easier to just scoop the food up with your hands? Or to eat out of the bowl like a dog? Why use utensils at all??

This is like saying that you can`t see the point of a bicycle because you have legs and walking is so much easier.

Let me clarify myself a little.

First let me say, ITADAKIMASU, don't be silly. If we always did what was easiest the world would be a crispy burnt marshmallow circling the sun right now. To say that ease of efficiency is better is nothing short of lazy.

I looked at the original question of "Where do chopsticks come from?" and answered it in the context of food and traditional Japanese culture. I didn't approach it as "Why does a modern Japanese person use chopsticks?" or maybe the question should have been "Why do Japanese STILL use chopsticks?"

Yes, my romantic answer doesn't go anywhere near the thought patterns of a modern salary-man or college student.

Nyororin, I wrote it that way to sort of make a point. I just wanted to introduce the idea that culture can be found in unexpected places, and to give a different idea than "it's fast and easy", because, as we see, most Westerners hear don't believe that argument.

Noodle, I have had French meals, and they are beautufully presented. You said that it satifying all the senses was a western conscept, and I disagreed.
Of course all restuarants make a nice presentation. But take it down a notch. Compare a Hokka-hokka bento to a McDonalds meal. The bento is arranged, albeit quickly, by the maker. The McDonands is thrown into a bag.

Tenchu, I agree with your last post...(except about the apology :eek: ) I doubt a Japanese person would describe it that way either. Again, I just wanted to introduce the idea of traditional culture being a possible factor, along with "easy to shovel it in".

Because the Japanese viewed forks and knives as violent wepons, and didn't see a reason in eating with them, But they do still have spoons. ^-^ Also you may think forks and knives are easier to use but to them there not, they are just as skilled with chopsticks as we are with forks, it's just what you have praticed to use and have grown up with. o( ≧∀≦)o

I can't disagree with that point because its true...but i don't think that has anything to do with the point i was making... plus, western Fast food shouldn't even be considerd as food anyway. Usually its healthier to eat dog food (this is actually true, there is more nutritional value in dog food than a kebab or a macdonalds meal).

EDIT: i just realised what you wrote.... umm, i didn't mean to say that ALL western food is made in the way that is satisfies senses, i have to read what i wrote again, but i didn't mean to say that if i did... because that certainly isn't true... BUT, it certainly does exist!!

I coulda used you yesterday, rnbwsnunacrns. ;)

Sometimes people can't explain why they do things when they were brought up like how they were.

many asians were brought up using chopsticks so, it just became incorporated into their daily life. It's unexplanatory, just like the way you wear slippers or a dressing gown after you wake up/shower. ITS A ROUTINE THING. asking why is just like asking a monkey why he likes bananas.

the answer: he likes them, deal with it.

Just because you can't explain it doesn't mean there isn't an explanation.

lol, its nothing like asking a monkey why he likes bannanas... its more like asking why is it in english we write from left to right, but in arabic we write from right to left... There is a history of about it, and there is a reason out there, though it might be hard to find!!!!

lol. i read it on the back of a chopstick package <.<;...

btw, y do you say that western food doesnt satisfy all sences? i mean yeah some food is crap (like mcdonalds) but what about the fancy places that do set up stuff with good presentation? ugh im and school and bored. =.=; and i have to go to pe in 2 mins.

"asking why is just like asking a monkey why he likes bananas.

the answer: he likes them, deal with it."


lol.

i personally like to use the choppsticks they r really fun!!!

Misunderstand it? You had a one word comment.

Is the easiest way always the best way?

You said "yes."



But I hope none of us are taking this thread TOO seriously.

I haven't had a lot of experience with chosticks but I rather enjoy them.

I dont think i've ever SEEN chopsticks where i live. Only in photo's o_O

What?!

So there are no Asian people? No Asian food?

What?

Asian restaraunts arent very common here..I've only seen like.. one Chinese restaraunt here. I've not seen any Japanese places.

Where in scotland are you?

Edinburgh.

(stupid 10 character thing, blah blah.)

:confused: :confused: :confused: my friend goes to edinburgh university and every saturday evening he eats at a chinese restaurant... he said there are lots of asian restaurants.....:confused: :confused:

I hardly see any. o_O

Theres probably just hardly any Asian restaraunts in the part of Edinburgh that I live in.

(I dont even know where Edinburgh university is. *o*)

I have no clue... But Forks and spoons weren't around them at the time when they ate with Chopsticks...

Where were you yesterday?!?

:vsign:

simple answer: try eating sushi w/ a fork or spoon.

next: chinese style, main courses at center and you're holding a bowl of rice. unless if you eat what you grab from the middle right away its really annoying having to remove food off your fork each time and before eating rice.

PLUS!! its cooler when ppl stab you with chopsticks in the movie than w/ forks. stabbing someone with a fork almost always serves as comedic purpose... forks hurt too man =/

My whole family eats rice with there hands...I'm the only one who likes using chopsticks. I think there easier then using forks and spoons.

They've had chopsticks forever because they probably never thought of making forks or spoons in ancient times.

I know that that was on the first page...but I agree with their point.

I used to hate chopsticks when I was little...but now I get annoyed trying to shovel stuff like rice in my mouth with a fork, versus picking up up with chopsticks. chopsticks aren't necessarily easier - in that, you have to actually learn how to use them...but once you take the time to do so, IMO it makes for a better way of eating.

now to answer directly the question "why do they?" ...probably b/c it's traditional. and...why not?

it's just a different culture. that's all.

Yay Chopsticks!!!
 

Personally I find them a lot easier to use. I feel they're more convenient and I eat with them 90% of the time. I'm not Asian either. :p I don't know, it probably does have to do with the fact that yes, most traditional Japanese food is made to be eaten more easily with chopsticks.

So when you said "Yes"...you were really saying "No".

Got it now.

I like to eat food with chopsticks, it's fun and i know how to eat rice with it now i'm going to trey to teach my little brother.:D

Think about it!
You have been brought up using KFS, and the Asian have been brought up using chopsticks. Thats why. Cuz its what they do :D
I actually prefer using chopsticks and i dont think ive ever strugled using them :]

Was Tenchu always such a troll?

I think he has been troll-free on this thread...

i don't know, i live in the U.S. and we always use knives and forks and spoons, but i love using chopsticks! even if im not eating chinese or japanesse(never had but i wanna try some)!