FACT: You cannot learn Japanese from Anime
 

I am well aware that you can learn a number of words in Japanese. However, for proper complete sentences, you just can't.

I'll put it bluntly, anime, manga, and J-Dramas in the original Japanese language is not meant for outsiders.

They are made for Japanese audiences who already understand the language. In other words, if you've studied Japanese outside of the three mediums, and you find that watching/reading anime, manga, J-Dramas, helps reinforce your understanding of the language, you don't count since you're learning from better resources already. Although, it would be harmful if you continue to learn from anime, manga, and J-Dramas. I know, I couldn't stop saying 'sorry' in informal Japanese in a test for Business Level Japanese.

Which brings me to my next point, the language used in anime, manga, and J-Dramas is usually informal, improper, and contains slang. If you talk to someone in Japanese with the language from those mediums, I can guarantee that people will look at you funny or take offense to what you said. If you don't understand what's wrong with informal or improper Japanese as well as slang, it's because daily conversation between people in Japan is supposed to be formal and polite. You wouldn't go up to your suit-and-tie-wearing boss while using a lazy tone now would you?

Fansub groups are not 100% reliable because they could be working from a script translated from another language aside from Japanese (Japanese -> Korean/Chinese -> English), the translator's comprehension of Japanese is sub par leading to faulty lines, or they'll "spice up" the dialogue with cursing when there is no cursing in that line, heck there's no cursing at all in Japanese, period.

If you really want to learn proper Japanese, take classes, hang around people that speak the language, and study from lesson books.

Still don't believe me?

Then translate these into Japanese using proper Japanese:

I work at the hospital every Wednesday from 12:30 pm to 5 pm.
It takes me about 15 minutes to walk to the ticket booth to buy a one-way ticket for an express train to Shinjuku.
It takes around 10 hours to get to Puerto Rico from New York by plane.
After school, I go work at Mrs. Suzuki's flower shop from 4:00 pm to 8:30 pm. It takes about 30 minutes to go by train and on foot to arrive at her store.
I'm going to drive to Tokyo to meet my friends and watch a movie at 7:00 PM.

If I were you, I wouldn't use babelfish or any other online translation site because they are ultimately flawed, and using them shows how incompetent you really are.

:ywave:

Well said my friend. We believe you. You'd have to be plain stupid to only rely on anime when speaking to a Japanese person.

Hmmm, I listened to a conversation tonight on this very same subject with the same conclusions.

The dialogue in the animes has helped me with one aspect of language. I am getting better at distinguishing the general tones - melody, rise and fall of inflections, etc. - of the various Asian languages from one another.

(Baka, if you heard that comment earlier, I'll know its not coincidence.)

I think it's a great way to train your listening for sure.

But in terms of speaking, impressions are all conversational and not formal.

For beginners, it is more important to learn the formal Japanese.

Don't reply on Anime or J Drama and think that's how everybody speaks.

I personally watched the Simpsons religiously when I was learning English at early stage and it worked really great.

i'm going to completely disagree with your use of the word "FACT"

first of all, i learn through studying and other methods and not solely through the above mentioned media, i'm only stating this to prove that you can't say it is fact.

I have met people who have learnt how to speak an entire language and have good vocabulary thanks to learning from regular exposure to tv programs in that language. granted this is not done in a year or two, but over many years of their life particularly starting from when they are very young and can pick up a language easier. You CAN learn a language without textbooks and studying, but you still need to be able to use the language.

I don't watch anime, i do enjoy j-dramas however. J-dramas do indeed include quite a bit of polite japanese and keigo, if you can't pick that up then you have issues with your japanese ability. i'm sure there would be certain anime that would also have such japanese used in it. you can learn all forms of japanese from anime, j-drama etc, I have one drama where a lot of the dialogue is very polite. if you are only watching school life dramas where the conversations are all between friends then you are not going to be exposed to much polite japanese but that is not the fault of the medium, it is your fault for only watching those types of programs.

i don't recommend this form of learning a language and it is going to be slow and perhaps frustrating in comparison to learning through study/classes etc. i would never rely on just one form of study when learning a language, it is never going to help you progress quickly. you should have a combination of as many ways to interact with the language as possible.

my issue is with you saying it is fact. to say it is a fact that you can't learn a language that way is a complete load of crap.

Late to the topic, but I've learned a bit through watching Naruto Shippuuden. Stuff I wasn't able to catch before, I do now, such as informal speech, whereas in the classroom, you usually learn polite for a long time before getting to it.

This past week's episode, I started noticing Naruto's casual speech and his using attachments like "nda".

Something else I will admit to have learned through anime is some vocabulary. In my class, my teacher might mention a word in English, and because of anime, I might know the word for it in Japanese right off. Now writing it is a whole other story. lol

Sometimes it can be helpful to learn some things through anime or Japanese dramas, but it shouldn't be heavily relied on, imo.

I disagree, Baka.
Although, generally, you may not be able to learn the entire language through anime, it may still provide some valuable insight into it.

*I do know a few people who have learned a great deal of Japanese through anime. Of course, they'd been watching them since they were very young.

It is known that you can learn a language easier when you hear it being spoken often.
What makes (undubbed) anime any different? The voices in anime, afterall, are usually spoken by real Japanese speakers; therefore, you are somewhat receiving "real life" exposure to the language.

This is also where jrock comes in handy. Even though that's singing, not speaking. It still helps with pronounciation.

The problem with learning Japanese from anime is the cultural clues in the language a non-native isn't going to get. People speak more innappropriately than appropriately, and I hear anime fans use words like ORE, OMAE, KISAMA, etc. in ways that are frankly offensive.

They really do that? How do they use those terms offensively?

Just using them in the improper times. Unless you are very close friends or relatives to someone, ORE from a gaijin mouth can sound rude, and OMAE and KISAMA are fighting words. Anime doesn't teach you what's appropriate or not, so I cringe when I hear people use these terms (and many others) at the completely wrong times.

Oh, ok.

Thank you for answering my question.

I've heard of ore, but don't really know what it means. I for sure don't know what omae or kisama means, though I've heard of those words too.

Ore is a very masculine way of saying "Me" and OMAE and KISAMA are two ways of saying "You".

Ah, ok. Well, it makes why Miyavi uses that term then.

So, omae and kisama are like insulting then or something?

"ore" is the very rough way a male would refer to himself, rather than "watashi". Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it comes off as arrogant?

Edit: One thing I will mention in this spot, some Japanese have differing opinions on this. I had two different Japanese males tell me to use "boku" and "ore" more, although it may have been in jest.

"omae" is the rough version of "anata"(you). I rarely even used 'anata' when I was in Japan. I tended to just use their names. It tends to be more polite to speak in the 3rd person than 1st/2nd. Once again, I may need correction.

"kisama" is a straight and pure insult.

Thank you both, Nathan and MMM, for your help with this.

That's totally true, you can't. :angryblob: Disappointing, no?

Watch this, eet's funnay:

YouTube - The Secret to Learning Japanese! Amazing! :cool:

This is a very interesting topic because I have gone through another medium to learn Japanese, quite frankly, 4 years of college and I still find it difficult to comprehend what they say in anime. I know my listening skills are slow but it could also be me trying to read the subs as well as listen. I'm still trying to find a way to improve my Japanese with a lack of native speakers over here.

I'm surprised to hear that people try to learn Japanese from a show or music because when you start off learning a language you have to learn sentence structure, tense, forms, all the works which usually won't be found in anime or music. I would have to agree though... 'You cannot learn Japanese from scratch from an anime' but you can use it to help you in certain ways...

It just depends on the situation, but anime is fantasy, so a student will say it to his pricipal in anime and that's a good laugh, but a foreigner watching wouldn't know that's totally innappropriate.

That's very normal. You, at least, have a foundation of knowing what is polite and what isn't, so anime is nothing but helpful for listening.

I have to agree to the OP if all anime use .
I dont think that all anime uses informal or improper and slang japanese so i have to partly disaggree

and i think some people knows what to absorb and what to ignore.
if they what to know formal japanese they would probably learn from formal anime/jdrama characters and not from characters that is regarded as idiot/stupid characters like naruto

i agree on the part that the best way to learn the language
i just think exposure to anime/jdramas do helps
and i think watching undubbed ones are better, since we learn our first native languange unsub

***i dont really speak japanese but when i was learning english, films and cartoons are great exposure for me

But unless you are studying properly as well, you will not know what is appropriate and polite compared to what is innapropriate and rude.

I think it is helpful for picking up accents and vocabulary, but most anime should not be imitated unless you really know what you are doing.

I remember hearing about a specific word, てめ -- "Teme"?
[I'm not exactly sure on the spelling]

From what I understand, there are many words - てめ being one of them - largely used in entertainment, but rarely used in real life situations. Is that accurate?

like i said
anyway where else can you hear japanese conversation that have a large scope of topics.

so, the vibe I'm getting from this topic is:
Pop media (anime, manga, j-pop, j-rock, ect.) can be a useful tool, especially if you don't know anyone who speaks japanese natively, but if you use them as your sole means of learning the language, you will start saying things that will either offend others, or make you sound stupid (or both). Your learning process will also move much more slowly. So the best thing is to have a more formal study, but if you like the japanese pop media, it can aid your learning.
Am I gathering the right info here?

You have more faith in non-formal language students than I do. Just the basic concepts of "formal speech" and "informal speech" are hard to comprehend for those that don't learn formally, as formal and informal isn't as black and white in English as it is in Japanese.

So I don't think people know what to absorb and not to absorb. When Saya in Blood+ speaks to David or Julia (people she isn't familiar with) she uses a different form of speech than she does with her friends at school. There aren't always "formal characters" and "informal characters" and, of course, that is never true in real life. You need to be able to speak both formally and informally to sound like a native speaker, but the most important thing is knowing when what speaking style is appropriate. Anime is helpful, sometimes, in learning that for people that are already studying Japanese, but for someone coming in knowing nothing, it can be a real hazard.


Dramas, live-action movies, variety shows are probably more accurate representations of how Japanese people really speak and include a variety of topics.

I would agree with that 100%. There is nothing wrong with soaking up J-media, that's a good thing, but it isn't intended to be a language tool, and therefore is sketchy.

i just made my samples anime since i have seen more animes than jdramas etc...
considering the OP said
i assume you know that i was talking about japanese media in a more broader sense and not only anime when i say
The OP's point is that anime,jdrama etc... is harmful for those who are trying to learn japanese language.
that is what i disagree. one because there are different type of learners, people like me with short attention span would probably have more success understanding anime conversation that a voice recording of japanese vocabulary. 2nd anime/drama etc... have a larger scope of conversation than any other source.
well it might be true that it would be hard or impossible to learn "proper" japanese from these media but i think its undoubtedly a helpful media.
i dont think its the anime/jdrama fault that you couldn't stop saying 'sorry' in informal Japanese in a test for Business Level Japanese.

That is not the OPs point.

The point is you cannot expect to learn Japanese from subbed anime.

There are people that think this is possible. They are wrong.

People with short attention spans are not good candidates for learning second languages.

I spent 6 hours a week in a classroom and probably double that doing homework for four years to get Japanese "fluency" but I didn't feel fluent until I had lived in Japan for a couple years.

i learnt a bit of japanese words and phrases from watching japanese TV shows (reality more than anime though)
but im pretty sure you cant learn the whole language from anime >_>

I disagree with the FACT thing... I've never had a proper course in French until last year... Yet, I managed to pick up french from Anime and TV when I was younger... And I'm sure, if I had listened to it in Japanese when I was younger, it'd be Japanese that I speak instead of French...

Another example, I have a chinese friend in my class here... he's never had a single lesson of Japanese all his life, yet he can have basic conversations and can understand A LOT of Japanese, simply from watching anime and Japanese shows for the past 10 years... One thing I will say though, don't count on your level to be surperiour, but saying that you cannot learn Japanes from it is ridiculous... How do babies learn any language without having a translation for it?????:rolleyes:

Are there realy nice dorama or anime for young girls to study Japanese?
 

:confused:

A few months ago, I had a friend who said she'd teach me Japanese...I asked her where she'd learned it and she said she'd taught herself through anime...a while later when I started proper lessons, I discovered half the stuff she'd taught me was wrong >.<

You should have never trusted someone who 'learned' another language by ear alone. As a native speaker of Japanese, I can guarantee you this with confidence:

We don't speak the way most anime characters do, especially the main characters! But, alas, those are who too many Japanese-learners on JF try to sound like!!

So that's why there is so many random, 'KAWAIIIIII DESSSSUUUUU' in a lot of places on here xD

I've never bothered to learn Japanese through anime. I downloaded audio lessons, which were pretty good. I only know very basic things to say. Because they were audio lessons, however, I couldn't write all of it in romaji. There is probably no way I'll be able to teach myself Japanese on top of everything else, I'll probably have to get formal lessons if I want to get anywhere really.

Well, in even the case you are working on books, you should know that can be mistakes and divergences between methods, so you have to analyse. For example, in my main method, cherry was:

さくらんぽ (sakuranpo, speak sakurampo)

but in fact it seems that it is:

さくらんぼ (sakurambo, speak sakurambo)

French internet sites aren't clear, it is maybe some frenchies are disliking Rambo ? :confused:

In another hand, if you want to make your voice (I don't say vocabulary or grammar, only good voice tone!), just watch movies with Toshirô Mifune or Tatsuya Nakadai, you would have a bit actor or theatral, but good pronunciation I believe - it is me as french I would advice to french learner to listen Jean Gabin, even if here the pronounciation has changed since the 30s/40s/50s, opposite to Japan as it seems to me.

I think JDramas/Gameshows might be a little more helpful than most Anime. However, yes you should have basis in the language first. I took Japanese senior year and had to try and continue on my own this year because my College doesn't have it. I still talk to my Sensei, however, and she corrects my mistakes. It's soooo important to have a native speaker helping you through the process, especially if you have trouble learning languages. I don't see being able to have a basic conversation about magical flying samurai and 'What did you have for dinner last night?' as having learned the language. It's a start. I just think people are mistaken when they think being able to recite lines from an anime makes them proficient in Japanese. :rolleyes:

Agan, media helps a lot with learning a language, especially live media. I listen to Japanese radio jockey's sometimes. Obviously because my Japanese is still very basic I can't understand 97% of what he's saying. But I'm really picky about pronunciation in any language so I feel it helps. Also, there's nothing wrong with just hearing it just to get used to it. My German teacher based many of our classes on watching podcasts, weather reports, tv shows, etc. in German. Again, we were all in advanced level, but it helped a lot to hear how the language is spoken in everyday life.

I guess my point here is that you can't actually learn Japanese ONLY from anime, but it could help you out along the way if you've already been getting formal lessons.

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1) If you want me to ever read your posts again, make your settings so your font isn't almost invisible.

2) Yes, anime gives insight into Japanese culture, but anime isn't created for lesson plans, it is created for it's Japnese audience. It's like saying "The Simpsons is a good source to learn English and American culture". Yes, it is a CERTAIN view of American life, but the first words you learn in English probably shouldn't be "Cowabunga" and "No way, dude." Totally accurate words that are dangerous (or uncomprehensible) if misused.

My point is that Japanese shouldn't learn English from Bart Simpson unless they want their ass kicked every day. And Westerners shouldn't learn their Japanese from Naruto, Yugi-oh, Crayon Shin-chan, or anything like that. As a SUPPLEMENT it is fine, as a source? No.

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Use anime as a source of listening practice. ^^