sentence order when using kara (because)??

[risarisa]

What is the basic sentence structure when using kara (because) with sentence A being reason, and sentence B being the result. . .is kara before or after the reason?. . .I was told from someone that in conversational Japanese, kara can come before or after the reason, that the order doesn't matter. in what cases does this apply? Can someone please give an example??? Thanks in advance ^__^

[SHAD0W]

田中さん）　どうしてパーティーに行きませんでしたか 。- Why didn't you go to the party?
山田さん）　時間がなかったからです。- It's because I didn't have time.

　時間がなかったからパーティーに行きませんでした　 －There was no time so I didn't go to the party.

[KyleGoetz]

REASONからEFFECT/EVENT.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of crap.

Think of it like this: から is a particle meaning "from."

You could translate as "From reason X, Y occurred." XからYだ。

I wouldn't be surprised if natives don't think of から in that manner, but it's a useful mnemonic when first learning から usage.

[Lucas89]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

REASONからEFFECT/EVENT.

Anyone who tells you otherwise is full of crap.

Think of it like this: から is a particle meaning "from."

You could translate as "From reason X, Y occurred." XからYだ。

I wouldn't be surprised if natives don't think of から in that manner, but it's a useful mnemonic when first learning から usage.

What about if it was split into what would essentially be two sentences?
I ask this because of things like それは何？being shortened to 何それ？ etc. in more casual conversation.

I don't know how common or even correct it would be but from SHAD0W's example could you also say something like:

パーティーに行かなかった。時間がなかったから。

I mainly ask this question because I've said it like that only a couple of times but have never been corrected, and your post would lead me to believe that I am wrong....
Unless of course I misunderstood and you're talking about keeping in one sentence?

[darksyndrem]

Originally Posted by Lucas89

What about if it was split into what would essentially be two sentences?
I ask this because of things like それは何？being shortened to 何それ？ etc. in more casual conversation.

I don't know how common or even correct it would be but from SHAD0W's example could you also say something like:

パーティーに行かなかった。時間がないんだから。

I mainly ask this question because I've said it like that only a couple of times but have never been corrected, and your post would lead me to believe that I am wrong....
Unless of course I misunderstood and you're talking about keeping in one sentence?

From what I read, think he was talking about keeping it all in one sentence, but I could be wrong.

[chryuop]

I had asked the same question a couple of weeks ago. Look at the answer a native speaker gave me...
because question

[risarisa]

Originally Posted by darksyndrem

From what I read, think he was talking about keeping it all in one sentence, but I could be wrong.

exactly that ^^^
i do have a basic understanding of how to use kara. . .but i came across the sentence:
私は悲しいですから雨が振っています。which was translated as 'because it is raining, i am sad'.

but i always thought that the reason was before kara, which would actually give the reverse of the statement: 'because i am sad, it is raining'. . .which obviously doesn't make sense. hence the confusion ?__?
when i pointed it out, i was told that in conversational japanese, the order of the reasoning/resultign sentences is unimportant.

apparently order doesn't matter, or does it??? anyone care to explain for me???

[chryuop]

In my opinion that phrase is wrong (but I am just a student as well, so I might be wrong). It seems that wherever you read it, it was printed on the contrary. In that phrase から is referring to the subordinate clause "I am sad" so the reason becomes "I am sad". Moreover, as far as I know, unless the subject is the same you will not have the topic marker は in the subordinate clause, but in the main claus. Thus at most the phrase in my opinion should have been 私が悲しいですから雨は降っています...which if you ask me sounds pretty weird and unnutural.
I guess the phrase originally was 雨が降っていますから私は悲しいです。

Just my opinion tho...

[risarisa]

Originally Posted by chryuop

In my opinion that phrase is wrong (but I am just a student as well, so I might be wrong). It seems that wherever you read it, it was printed on the contrary. In that phrase から is referring to the subordinate clause "I am sad" so the reason becomes "I am sad". Moreover, as far as I know, unless the subject is the same you will not have the topic marker は in the subordinate clause, but in the main claus. Thus at most the phrase in my opinion should have been 私が悲しいですから雨は降っています...which if you ask me sounds pretty weird and unnutural.
I guess the phrase originally was 雨が降っていますから私は悲しいです。

Just my opinion tho...

lol that's what i thought and pointed it out to him, but the person kept insisting that teh order doesn't matter, and was adamant that 'kanashii kara ame ga futte imasu' could mean 'i am sad because it is raining'.

i think that the 'it's used in conversational japanese' was just an excuse to cover for the fact that he was downright wrong, but you never know right??

any native speakers wanna give their two cents?

[Lucas89]

Although you asked for a native speaker to give their two cents, I am not one

But no matter what way you look at it, like KyleGoetz, the reason will always come before から, and anyone who tells you otherwise is full of crap.

It's like saying that order doesn't matter in English when the reason comes after "because"
"I am sad, because it's raining" can only ever mean just that.
You can't just suddenly decide that you want the reason to be in front of "because", imagine how confusing life would get

I don't think whoever it is that is telling you these things actually knows what they are talking about.

Also chryuop, thank you for that link, I re-read this thread and realized that I had just mis-read KyleGoetz post a bit.