KyleGoetz's Thread of Questions
 

I'm going to make this my new thread in which I ask questions—they're going to be random and not substantial enough to deserve their own thread. Usually I imagine it will just be vocab questions.

I started a new system for learning vocab, and I've got three words that mean substantially the same thing. How are they different?

笑み
微笑
笑い

Thanks in advance!

祝　新スレ立ち上げ！

まず、三つの単語を意味の上からふたつのグループに分 けます。

1. 笑み　+　微笑. 2.　笑い.

笑み = "a smile", "smiling" の大和言葉です。
微笑 = "a smile", "smiling" の漢語です。文学的な香りのすることばです。

笑い　= "a laughter", "laughing" の大和言葉です。
__________

もうひとつ、「ほほえみ」という言葉も覚えておくとよ いでしょう。意味は上の第一のグループと同じです。も ちろん大和言葉です。

I hate to jump into this thread, but reading this sparked a small question.
微笑 read as びしょう is 漢語... But I often see ほほえみ also written as 微笑 or 微笑み. Often enough that I generally read 微笑 as ほほえみ unless it`s indicated otherwise by ふりがな or totally doesn`t fit in with the feel of the passage.

Is this just connecting the 大和言葉 to the 漢語 of the same meaning? Or can 微 actually be read as ほほ?

In the large scheme of things, it probably doesn`t matter much, but I was a bit curious. :D

分かりました。ホンマニオオキニ

You've brought up a very good point. Evidently, you should be the biggest bookworm in Central Japan.

In schools, the only reading they teach you for 微笑 is びしょう, which makes sense because:
1. The word was borrowed from Chinese. and
2. There is no kun-reading ほほ for 微.

However, as you stated, it's true that in many fictional and non-fictional writings, 微笑 often has the furigana ほほえみ added by the authors. This happens quite often to some words, which is a unique feature of the language. It's like you want a word to pysically appear in one way but sound in another. Amazingly, this is possible in Japanese.

Another good example (though with no On-Kun relation) is 女 read as ひと in so many novels and song lyrics. People prefer the feminine look of the character 女, but not the sound of おんな since it can sound more like a "broad" than a "woman" or "lady".

My general analysis is this. Even after well over 1,000 years of pronouncing both On and Kun, our ears still long for the Kun unless we are in proffesional/academic/business situations. Seems this is in our DNA, and it's truly amazing that you now have a Japanese ear for reading 微笑 as ほほえみ when there is no furigana to read it as such.

Hey, hey, hey! I've got another triplet to divide and conquer!

逃げる
逃げ出す
逃れる

やっぱり「逃走」って漢文で、上級な日本語なんだけど 、「逃げる」と「逃げ出す」と「逃れる」はどうちがう のかな〜っと。

Edit: Moreover, 「解かす」と「溶かす」はどう違うの？

「かな～っと」の使い方がメッチャ自然やん。おっさん ホンマ米国人かいな！

「逃げる」 is the most generic with many meanings such as to run away from someone, to escape from danger or arrest, to flee, to take flight, to shirk one's duty, etc.

「逃げ出す」 has two (sets of) meanings.
1. 「逃げる」
2. 「逃げ始める」. 　

For #1, 逃げる and 逃げ出す are often interchageable. In fact, the only exceptions I can think of is that kids only say 逃げる in tag. The other one is when two guys are performing an illegal activity and one notices the police car siren and says to the other "逃げろ".　He sure won't say "逃げ出せ".　

「逃れる」 is different in that it often doesn't involve physical "running". You can 逃れる from responsibility, punishment, job, yapping wife, etc.
_______

「解かす」 and 「溶かす」, in the average Japanese person's daily life, are completely interchangeable. No one really cares as they had been one word before we had letters.

In some dictionaries, however, you will see 解かす defined as "to melt ice or snow", and 溶かす as "to dissove in water".

I am not going to put up with any bickering in this thread. You are all regular and valued members, so let's work together and post only what is necessary.

I'm not even sure what's going on. Huh?

Some unhappy member called this thread names and I told him to get out. He has never even studied Japanese but somehow firmly believes that romaji is a vaild and recognized option for writing Japanese.

OK, guys, let's all just be cool. And now for something completely different: me and my favorite scotch!

Kyle, this is your thread, and it is valid. The politics of romaji vs. kanji/kana do not need to be played out here. I erased some unneeded posts that were off-topic.

If someone doesn't like the thread, they don't need to post in it. There is nothing about this thread that goes against the policies of JF.

You're a good guy, MMM. I think in times like this, we need to let such people know they are liked and respected.

New question regarding vocabulary: How are 薬屋 and 薬局 different? Is it just that 薬屋 is a native Japanese word while 薬局 is a word imported from China (and thus 薬局 is a more literary/academic/professional word)?

Edit: How about 下宿 vs. 宿泊 as a する verb? I sense these mean pretty much exactly the same thing, connotation and all.

With these particular two words, our usual 大和言葉 vs. 漢語 issue is still valid but there is a more important difference.

薬局 only has one meaning: a drug store.

薬屋 has a few:
a drug store　　「次の角に薬屋があります。」
its owner　　「山田さんは薬屋（さん）です。」
his/her family　　「スミスんち、薬屋（さん）だよ。」

They never mean the same thing.

宿泊 = a stay in a hotel or any establishment that rents rooms for money.

下宿 = to stay with a person (family) that rents rooms in his own home for money. Your addres will be: John Smith, i/c Sashimister, 2-8-10 JF-cho, blah blah

今までの答えをありがとう！

もう一つの質問があるんだが...

今はホストマザーへの手紙を書いてるんで、「By the time this letter arrives, I will be married」と書きたいっす。「この手紙が着いたまでに結� �して来る」っていいの？

今週の日曜日に結婚していく。結婚式の前に手紙を送る つもりだ。

アリギャト〜 m（＿　＿）m

オメデト～:)

「この手紙が届くまでには結婚しています。」　とか、
「この手紙が届く頃には結婚しています。」が自然かも ね。後者の方がいいと思う。
「来る」は使えないよ。

今週の日曜日に結婚していく　＞　結婚する

ありがとう。わくわくしてるぜ :)

なるほど。「届く」を使えばいいかな〜っと思ってたけ ど...

それに「来る」がタイポだ。:/ 　「結婚する」って未来のことだか忘れちゃった！

３９（チョウ９０年代っぽいじゃんw）！

Man, I feel like I'm always tempted to talk some Mixi crap when I'm doing my typing in Japanese... Oh well, I'm sure I insert my fair share of "LOL"s into my English here without realizing it. Let's just chalk it up to my impending wedding! I'll make sure to find an excuse to post about it here when I finish with the ceremony.

New question:

［価（あたい）」と「値（あたい）」はどう違いますか 。両方はvalue/worthというでしょうかね。

このふたつは基本的に互換性があると考えていいんじゃ ないかな。例外が思いつかない。個人的な好みでどちら か一方だけを使う人が多いような気がするね。

なるほど。
それ以外に「量る」と「計る」は？Is one more for weights and the other distances and times?

これも実際には普通の人は違いを気にしないと思う。た だ、「辞書的なルール」で言えば、次の事が言えるかな 。

量る　weights & volumes
計る times
測る distances & areas

ありがとう、さしみスターさん

Time for a list of new questions! A great many questions! :)

石、岩、岩石 How are these words different? Is 岩 a different size? Does it sound more like a boulder (I notice there is the mountain radical in the kanji)? Is 岩石 more scientific/literary/technical? It's kango, which is why I was thinking so.

What about:
1. 谷 vs. 渓谷 Is just one more literary/scholarly/scientific?
2. 増す vs. 増える synonyms? They're both native Japanese intransitive verbs meaning "to increase."
3. 分量 and 量
4. 減少する and 減る—is the former just more technical/formal/stiff sounding?
5. 省みる and 反省する—same as in #4?
6. 空の and 空っぽの for "empty"—how are they different? The latter sounds "cute" or very conversational to my ear.
7. 固い／堅い／硬い—This can be passed upon. I know it's a bit tougher, and reading the Japanese explanations made it difficult. I think the first is a bit more like "unchanging" like being stubborn or something.
8. バス停／停留所—Is the latter just more like what you'd see in a journal article or something more technical?

Umm.. I will add my two cents on some of these, which probably will not help you, or is wrong.. but here goes. 岩 vs　石 my impression has always been that 岩 has the connotation of being bigger than 石 or a least more mountainy or something.. Like I don't think you could say 池に岩を投げる.. I mean maybe you could but it would portray a different image than what people normally think of.. I think..

増す vs 増える.. .I am pretty sure 増す is transitive.. and 増える is intransitve.. when　が　is used with 増す i think it is just a subject marker. For me when I use を.. I use 増す.. and I would never use を with 増える。

and last one I will comment on　空の vs　空っぽの.. I have typically said 空っぽの when talking about somebody's empty brainless head, but the exact difference.. just wait for a native..

No, I think they are both intransitive. Maybe you're misreading the first as 増（ふ）やす rather than 増（ま）す? Because 増やす is transitive. 増す is not, as far as my book is concerned. Or, at least, maybe the latter can be transitive and intransitive. In Eijiro, it indicates masu as 【他動】, which means it is intransitive. But it also has 【自動】 examples as well. As an intransitive it means "to add," which is the meaning I'm curious about. As a transitive, it means "heighten/intensify/rise." But that's weird because "rise" is intransitive!

But thanks for the input!

Today has been very productive. My favorite new word is 系列子会社 (subsidiary company)!

I checked my dictionary, and it actually has 増す　（ます） as both transitive and intransitive... interesting.. it has an example sentence of 速度を増す and 彼女の怒りが増した。　Haha, I salute your desire to figure all this stuff out, but questions like these always just gave me headaches.. so I usually avoid them like the plague.

Well, while I'm in between jobs, I'm making a heavy push for JLPT1 success. :)

石、岩、岩石 How are these words different? Is 岩 a different size? Does it sound more like a boulder (I notice there is the mountain radical in the kanji)? Is 岩石 more scientific/literary/technical? It's kango, which is why I was thinking so.

石 any small stone/rock you find on the street, in the school yard, in the park, etc.
岩 we usually use this to refer to a larger stone in the mountains or by a river.
岩石 is our usual kango for scientific/technical use.

What about:
1. 谷 vs. 渓谷 Is just one more literary/scholarly/scientific?
Exactly.
2. 増す vs. 増える synonyms? They're both native Japanese intransitive verbs meaning "to increase."
As has been answered, the former is both trans. and intrans. When it's used as an intransitive verb, it sounds less casual than 増える.
3. 分量 and 量
Generally interchangeable. 量 tends to sound a bit more scientific than 分量, but most of us couldn't care less.
4. 減少する and 減る—is the former just more technical/formal/stiff sounding?
Precisely.
5. 省みる and 反省する—same as in #4?
Classical case of Yamato vs. Kango.
6. 空の and 空っぽの for "empty"—how are they different? The latter sounds "cute" or very conversational to my ear.
You're acquiring a Japanese ear. Latter can sound pretty childish even though many adults use it.
7. 固い／堅い／硬い—This can be passed upon. I know it's a bit tougher, and reading the Japanese explanations made it difficult. I think the first is a bit more like "unchanging" like being stubborn or something.
This isn't very simple. I'll sleep on it.
8. バス停／停留所—Is the latter just more like what you'd see in a journal article or something more technical?
Former is the usual choice. Latter carries a somewhat poetic overtone.

Well I am sure you have your methods, I feel like subtleties like this are the concern of linguists and teachers. In my experience with the test knowing things like this was not necessary to get passed it. I mean there were questions like、 which sentence best uses this word.. and what word should be used in this sentence.. but there was never a decision to be made between 硬い、堅い　or 固い etc.

For me it was most important to know shitloads of vocab, and have good reading comprehension skills (under pressure.. which really sucks...). Grammar-after I knew a certain number of advanced concepts it did not deserve much attention.
Listening.. yeah.. really random.. could never get a consistent score..

Anyhow I know you did not ask for advice on study methods so I will stop talking, but I do wish you the best of luck on the new test, I hear you will have to be able to pass all sections on the thing now, so I suppose every effort will really count. 頑張れ！:)

I'll limit my discussion to what I know for sure and what I feel you would be expected to know at this stage in your studies.

1. physically hard to break 固・硬 (opposite of "soft")
hard (leaded) pencil, hard-boiled egg, etc.

2. tightly knit, hard to separate (both tangible and intangible) 堅・固 (opposite of "loose")
firm handshake, tight knot, etc.

3. firm, unchanging (intangible) 堅・固
firm belief, firm decision, etc.

4. stubborn 固・硬
頭が固い、考え方が硬い

5. tense (facial expression) 硬
硬い表情

6. uninteresting, too serious 固・硬
硬い話、固いだけの面白くない男

7. trustable, dependable 堅
デレク・ジーターの守備は堅い

「親善」と「友情」は意味が違いますか。
「要望」と「要求」は？

「親善」と「友情」は意味的な共通点が多いのですが、 用法が１８０度違います。

親善 is between groups, cities, nations, etc.　
国際親善、日米親善、親善試合、ＥＴＣ．

友情 is mostly between individuals.
オレたちの友情、永遠の友情、友情出演(in theatrical works)、ＥＴＣ．

友情 is more of an everyday word than 親善, too.
______

「要望」と「要求」は意味が違います。

「要望」は「できればこうしてほしい」、「可能ならこ うしてほしい」という意味の柔らかいことばです。お願 いをしているニュアンスです。

「要求」は「これとあれがほしい。」というような語感 の強いことばです。「これとあれが入手できるのは当然 である。」というニュアンスがあります。

I have a couple more vocabulary questions that have popped up over the past few days of kanji/vocab studies:

How are 税関 and 関税 different? Both are some variation on "customs" like the thing you go through when importing products into your country, right?

Both 即座に and 即時に mean "immediately," but is there any time difference between them?

I know I am nitpicking stuff, but this type of thing is what reinforces the meanings of the words for me, rather than just accepting that I know it means "immediately" and skipping to the next flashcard.

Not right. That's the definition of 税関 only.

関税 means "tariffs".

The last kanji is the base meaning of the word.
税関 is a checkpoint.
関税 is a tax.

There is a huge overlap in the meanings. I don't believe there is any time difference between them.

The biggest and most important difference I can think of is that 即座 cannot be followed by another kanji word while 即時 can.

e.g. 即時撤退= immediate withdrawal, 即時取り引き= a direct transaction, 即時払い= cash on the spot, etc.

即座 is mostly used for an adjective with の or an adverb with に.

Thanks. That sort of analysis is similar to how I was trying to learn the difference between 材木 and 木材.

Now I'm trying to translate this sentence in a Wikipedia article about Yukiko Todoroki:The first sentence I understand:How should I phrase the second sentence? I'm guessing something like How is that? Did I get it right? The 対する and 意趣返しがあったという are throwing me off!

Thanks!

Edit: What the heck is a 失明騒ぎ? Some sort of uproar that causes blindness? This makes me think of a sandstorm, but it surely must be a figure of speech! Is it a blackout? Temporary blindness?

Except maybe for the fact that 巻 doesn't mean "scroll" here. It means "volume (in books)" or "reel (in films)".

This casting was not executed against Hasegawa but it was against the headhunting (引き抜き) of the actor by Toho. 意趣返し = avenge. 対する = against.

"It has been said that, as a background to this casting, it was an avenge by the existing four companies aganst Toho's headhunting of Hasegawa."

失明騒ぎ means a rumor that someone has become blind and the fuss surrounding it. The person in question didn't go blind.

I'll go blind if I type another line. Been typing for 20 straight hours today.

OK, a new set of words that are similar in meaning to me. How are they different?

推理する
推論する
推測する
推定する

(Haha, yes, I did get all four of these from the 推-vocabulary section of my book.)

And Sashimister, thanks for the help on the past few questions I've had!