Okay, so と = with. What's without?

[Harold]

I know と can be used as "with" as in 「あなたと歩きたい」、but what's "without"? I see "nashi" like, as in タイトルなし "without a title". Is that it?

Edit: oops meant to post this in the main topic

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Harold

I know と can be used as "with" as in 「あなたと歩きたい」、but what's "without"? I see "nashi" like, as in タイトルなし "without a title". Is that it?

Edit: oops meant to post this in the main topic

と doesn`t really mean "with". It`s just what it means in some cases....

In the sentence you use as an example, you are saying "I want to walk with you". The opposite of that would be "I don`t want to walk with you", which would be 「あなたと歩きたくない」. The と wouldn`t change at all.

I can sort of understand what you mean by wanting to know "without", but as it`s really relative to the sentence, it would be really hard to just pluck a word out and say that it means "without".

なし could technically be considered "without", but you certainly couldn`t use it in every case.

What sort of sentence are you thinking of using "without" in?

[Harold]

Yea.. I know there's other uses for と、but I want to

As in, "I want to walk without you", or, "I went to the store without you".

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Harold

Yea.. I know there's other uses for と、but I want to

As in, "I want to walk without you", or, "I went to the store without you".

If you said it just like that in Japanese, you would end up sounding a bit odd.

I think what you`re trying to do is to translate directly - which isn`t really the best way to go about things. Sure, you COULD say it that way, but no one does. What would be a more normal way of saying it would simply be "I don`t want to walk with you."　「あなたと歩きたくない」 ,"I want to walk alone."　「一人で歩きたい」, or "I don`t want to walk with anyone."　「誰とも歩きたくない」 As Japanese doesn`t really translate word for word into English, you could feasibly translate any of them into "I want to walk without you." if it fit the circumstances.

The same really goes for "I went to the store without you." - Instead of focusing on the negative, it would be more normal to just say you went alone, or state who you went with. It`s going to be *obvious* to the "you" that is being spoken to in this case that they weren`t with you... So why state the obvious?

You don`t have to say things the same in Japanese as you would say them in English. In fact, it would be really strange sounding if you did.

[Harold]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

If you said it just like that in Japanese, you would end up sounding a bit odd.

I think what you`re trying to do is to translate directly - which isn`t really the best way to go about things. Sure, you COULD say it that way, but no one does. What would be a more normal way of saying it would simply be "I don`t want to walk with you."　「あなたと歩きたくない」 ,"I want to walk alone."　「一人で歩きたい」, or "I don`t want to walk with anyone."　「誰とも歩きたくない」 As Japanese doesn`t really translate word for word into English, you could feasibly translate any of them into "I want to walk without you." if it fit the circumstances.

The same really goes for "I went to the store without you." - Instead of focusing on the negative, it would be more normal to just say you went alone, or state who you went with. It`s going to be *obvious* to the "you" that is being spoken to in this case that they weren`t with you... So why state the obvious?

You don`t have to say things the same in Japanese as you would say them in English. In fact, it would be really strange sounding if you did.

Wow. I haven't learned something like this in a while.
It's really nice to see something that's not in textbooks. I would have never noticed this on my own. Thanks so much!

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Harold

Wow. I haven't learned something like this in a while.
It's really nice to see something that's not in textbooks. I would have never noticed this on my own. Thanks so much!

I`m really happy it helped you. I majored in linguistics in university, so the other bits of language (as in cultural, etc) are sort of my specialty. Language is more than just translating the words, which unfortunately a lot of text books and teachers forget.