I appreciate it was late when you answered, but please re-read my original post. The points I made about GTA were that it is more detached from reality and that the victims are generic and have no personality. Same with the ninja games and so forth that other people mentioned. In those situations, the ability to fulfill those actions is difficult (lack of ninja skills, ability to fly helicopters, reset life when shot to bits by cops etc) and unfounded in reality. In the rape games you are technically an ordinary person. Take the stalking-of-a-train game; what man would believe they couldn't over power a 12 year old girl if they wanted to? That's a much smaller leap from fantasy to reality and it's dangerously small. The human mind is vastly suceptable to subtle messaging so even if a person IS still aware that rape is wrong and 'should remain in fantasy land' it will still alter, probably in some quite significant ways, the way they think about women and girls.

Again I highly disagree that it's not at least partially the responsibility of the game producers not to encourage this kind of thinking, especially as it has a higher risk OF drawing mentally unstable individuals to it, and then egging them on to acting out in real life than most commercial games. If a risk is there, it should be taken into account quite seriously.

I looked into this matter and seems all this fuss was because Amazon was selling a rape simulator called RapeLay.

As I understand only games that focus on raping (like the one above) will be banned and I have no objections against that, but if they start banning all the games that have rape as a plot point, then I going to disagree. I know some awesome games that have rape scenes in their stories and I don't want them to be banned.

Yeah, that's fair enough. Just doing a sweep ban of everything that mentions rape would be kind of backwards. Lj did that a while back with their NC-17 crackdown. Ended up banning a comm set up by and for survivors of sex abuse, and a discussion thread on Romeo and Juliet. Genius.

Someone once told me, however, that anime which features sex with little girls should not be a punishable crime, because no one gets hurt, it is innocent. But the same person said real pornography of little girls is wrong, because it effects someones life and hurts them.

I agreed with that person, but I don't agree with you here.

We should be allowed to produce what we want, so long as it hurts no one or infringes their space.

America does not burn books, or so I'm told. I am not American, but after living in a book burning country, Thailand, I've finnally come to appreciate a few things I've heard about America.

Not burning books should extend to all forms of media.

I didn't say it should be banned. I said "Rape is wrong.

So when packaged in a product that makes rape OK, if people can't see that rape is wrong, then the people are stupid.

Huh?"

I was questioning your logic in that respect.

Yes, but you may also argue that walking up to a innocent civilian from behind and hacking them up with a chainsaw is wrong, so games with this in it should also be banned, right?

There is a difference between fiction and reality, especially when the fiction is harmless.

I've got no problem playing games that kill civis in fiction, even though I know it is wrong to do it in real life. Why should I think other games with "wrong" things in it are so bad? I'm not stupid.

I never said the games should be banned, but let's not pretend that they are anything different than they are: fantasy fetish fulfillment.

So, is it wrong to feed your fantasy?

Personally, I like self control. But saying it is wrong would be saying all pornography or such is wrong. Perhaps even just normal anime and games are fantasy fullfillment with a bit of fetish in there.

Not all pornography is about fetishes and illegal acts. Please don't put words in my mouth. My point was that you seemed to say that the game producers don't have any responsibility if their consumers can't see that rape is wrong. What I was saying is that they cannot deny responsibility because the goal of the game is to rape, consequence free. Even GTA has consequences in the game. There is never a question that the actions the player takes aren't illegal or have consequences. These games are different, as the girl you rape will eventually "like it". I think that shows questionable judgement as a producer as it sends what I think is a dangerous message.

It's fiction, MMM, it doesn't matter what the message is, it isn't suppossed to be converted into reality.

Of course, it should be exclusive for an adult audience, but if an adult is unable to see that something like this si wrong, it is a psychological problem, and not the fault of a producer.