Loose Morals in Japan
 

Ok, before I start with this, I just want to say...I am not AT ALL or in ANY WAY trying to say that Japan does these things, this is something someone told me and I want to make sure it's wrong (because I'm pretty sure it is wrong).

Ok, I've been looking into student exchange things, for going to Japan, as a student. And I brought this up with my mum...being that I'm 16 and a freshman in highschool, it's kind of obvious my parents don't want to send me to a foreign country for a semester. While I was talking to her about this she told me, that some guy she knew had went to Japan and he said that they have "loose morals"...he said they do the immoral things that America does, except they're very open about it....As for what immoral is and stuff..well we didn't really go into detail, but I guess the crime and all the drugs and premarital sex and stuff that goes on in America.

I really don't think this is true but I wanted to ask about it here

I don't know whether to laugh or salute the concept of this thread as a monument to uninformed generalizations. Either way, this will be an interesting discussion.

I guess it all depends on what your "morals" are.

Premarital sex is pretty much a given... But drugs and crime? I think you`d be pressed to find a country with less of both than Japan.

I`m going to guess it is related to the human body. Nudity and sex is not looked upon as such a taboo as it is in some other countries, and the general attitude toward life tends to be a bit different than the common western ideal.

A simple comparison, in my opinion, is this;
In the US, sex and nudity seem to be the ultimate evil when it comes to media. There is outrage over anything deemed too sexual, etc... But at the same time, violence is widely accepted.
The opposite is true in Japan. Nudity and sex are natural things, so aren`t treated with shock and disgust. Violence on the other hand is generally looked down upon.

The thing is though, no one is going to force or even really invite you to do anything outside of your comfort zone. And if someone wants to do something of low morality in the US - they`re going to regardless.

I would love to know exactly what these immoral things are that were referenced. Without knowing what sort of morals your mother has, I really can`t comment much more.

Without knowing what she is talking about it is hard to give an answer.

As far as drugs go, Japan is very anti-illegal drugs. In some ways the body is a temple, so things like mind-altering drugs and tattoos are looked down upon. I only met one or two adult Japanese who had claimed to have even tried smoking marijuana, and I knew no one who had done any harder drugs.

Maybe her friend was talking about public intoxication. It is not uncommon to see people drunk in public. These are usually after college or work social gatherings where drinking is very encouraged. You can be sure that the drunk driving laws in Japan are very strict, and any one drinking will not be driving.

As a high school student you would not find yourself in a situation like that.

Public displays of affection are not as common in Japan. I once led an exchange with a group of high schoolers to a school in Japan. At the going away party our students were hugging their host brothers and sisters goodbye. The Japanese principal was very upset and told me hugging was against the rules.

This reminds me a bit of my grandfather going off about Japan being a hedonistic society, and that I should be very careful not to have my morals destroyed by it.
These days, I have to wonder what the big deal against hedonism is...
Is it all that horrible to aim for the most pleasure and least pain in life and for those around you? It seems like a very positive thing.

Also, there's the paradox of hedonism: If you decide to look for pleasure, you'll never find it.

I also agree with Nyororin's comments about her grandfather. "It's foreign to me, so therefore it's wrong and will corrupt anyone in record time no matter what."

"Loose morals" is usually an euphemism for things to do with good ole' sex.....not crime or drugs or drunkenness. Your use of English seems to point to you being an American....and that is the colloquial usage of that phrase.

American views on sex and sexuality are greatly influenced by the dominance of Christianity in America, and a large part of that viewpoint by the Catholic Church and it's derivatives. Japan grew up as a non-Christian nation....and so did not develop the ingrained concepts of stuff like "original sin" directed toward sex like Christian nations tended to.

As has already been said, nudity, the human body, and sex are looked at in Japan as purely natural. As an example, you'll openly find "love hotels" all over the place so that couples can find some privacy. Japan also has a long history of open prostitution. While it is currently illegal...... you'll still find plenty of that stuff going on rather openly. (Just head over to Kabukicho for an example.)

And as also has been said..... Japan has one of the lowest if not THE lowest crime rates of any country. Violent and somewhat random street crime is almost unheard of. Guns on the street are rare indeed. And the drug laws there are amazingly harsh...... so illegal drugs are not common at all.

Drinking seems to be the second "national sport" after sumo! :)

Remember ... you take YOUR morals with you wherever you go.


best,

.................john

I agree with most of what JBaymore said, except to clarify a couple points.

1) Love hotels. A Japanese love hotel is nothing like the ratty image of a "No-tell Motel" we have in the US. The love hotels are, yes, out in the open and often look like a Las Vegas casino or Disneyland attraction on the outside, but they are very private. What goes on inside is not open. There are no outdoor parking lots, cars are hidden behind a curtain, and some even have more than one exit for privacy.

The love hotel exists not to encourage sex, but as a private alternative for adults that may still be living with family.

2) Prostitutes. Paying for sex is illegal in Japan, but there are areas in every city you can go to for, again, discreet services. Go to those areas, like Kabukicho, and you will find them. But that is a SMALL part of Japan. In three years of living there I only saw what I would call prostitutes two times...both in Tokyo....one in Kabukicho and one in Ueno (I think). One was Chinese and the other was Russian. I have never seen a "street walker" in Osaka, and I have been all over the place there.

I have seen "pink salons" in adult entertainment districts, but chances are you are not going to be hanging out in those areas, so it is very easy to go to Japan and never be exposed to these things if you do not want to be.

The sex industry in Japan is huge. If I remember correctly, the revenues from that industry actually exceed the defense budget of my entire country! There are thousands of call girl services and clubs which cater to every fetish possible.

However, with that being said, they're mostly confined to a certain area of the city so it's always easy to avoid. Either way, it's highly unlikely that they'll accept foreign clients to begin with.

I'm sorry to say but pornography is openly displayed . Children are exposed to it in convenience store magazine sections. Men will openly read porno manga on crowded trains with no shame, as well as in convenience stores, tachi yomi. Inns and coffee shops will have it in the reading rack.

There is the real crux of the matter. In a lot of Western society and particularly in America, sex is associated with "dirty" and being involved with "dirty" stuff should result in people feeling "shame".

If you grow up thinking the naked body is just a naked human body, and that sex between consenting adults is a normal part of being human.... then the whole "shame" issue is just not there.

So reading such material in public is not a reason to feel "shame".

It is a total cultural orientation difference.

best,

....................john

Will you read it on the train in front of your children? I'm sorry but that is shameful to me.

I don't think anyone would like their child exposed to that.

I have seen men reading magazines that do have pinups and softcore pictures riding on the trains, but I have never seen anyone reading hardcore pornography on the train.

There are magazines with pictures of naked women in them on every rack at 7-11 in Japan, and the rack at 7-11 near my house has Curves, Maxim, Tattoo and another dozen titles with women in skimpy bikinis making sexy poses. I really don't see THAT much of a difference.

And no, I would not read it on the train in front of MY children, and never have I seen a father reading one of these magazines while on a family outing.

Of course you wouldn't read it in front of your children.
Of course I have never seen anyone reading hardcore pornography on a train.
But I have seen men reading porno manga and children gawking, or mothers shielding them from it.

A friend of mine brought her son over from the US, and some uncouth man was 'reading' some porno manga in front of them. I'm sure the boy was delighted.

When I was a boy, Playboy was on the back rack in the candyshop, but no one read it in public.

I am not sure if ecchi manga and pornography are the same thing. (Sorry, I missed the "manga" in your first statement).

Is it in poor taste to read that stuff out in public? I think it would be hard to argue it isn't, and most Japanese would agree. I think it would make a bigger statement about Japanese society if the mothers didn't try to shield their children from it.

I think what you learned is Japanese men can sometimes be a little clueless, but it doesn't mean that are amoral.

That isn`t quite true - he lived in Japan. It wasn`t quite as simple as jumping at the unknown. He is just a strongly religious person, and the lack of Christian thinking and ideals in Japan was not his cup of tea. In his case it wasn`t the unknown but the known he was talking about.

About pornography...
In the 10(+ now?) years I have lived here, I have never encountered a single person reading pornographic media on the train. And for years I was riding the train very extensively. The worst were the pin-up model shots in the weekly news rags that are advertised to death on the train... And once I saw a guy who`d bought some porn magazines and they were visible through the plastic bag they were in. I`d be willing to guess that more than 99% of people think it is absolutely disgusting to read that sort of thing on a train, or in public at all really.

As for the magazine racks, I personally find it more disturbing to have overtly sexual advertising EVERYWHERE... You have to actually go to the section and pic up the magazine in Japan. In the US it seems like you`re bombarded with sexual imagery from pretty much every direction, even if it doesn`t actually make it to full out pornography.

What a love hotel might look like:

I saw plenty of men and women reading the thick comic type, I believe it was Etchy Manga (That MMM mentioned) on the train, the type with definite pornography, although they were drawings, not real life photos.

It seemed to be rather common and simply part of a Japanese thing.

I'm not 100% sure what the consensus in peoples minds were, possibly art, possibly appreciating the drawing excellence, or simply fantasizing about the activities.

The thing that concerned me was the age of the people reading it, mature adults. If it was young teenagers having a laugh, I could have understood that.

I also saw plenty of magazines being browsed upon that did have naked ladies on some pages, although never naked men.

The reader would often half close the page and do an eye sneak to get a gander.

As for full real life pictures pornography, never saw it on the trains, but definitely used to see it right near where I would park my scooter by way of a vending machine with a pink curtain covering the contents of the goods for sale.

Love hotels, I wasn't offended, and found them to be a novelty, and like R.Samurai, I have a good collection of photos from on the road. The designs were just something I'd never seen back home;)

So you saw both men and women reading "pornography" on the trains? I guess we probably have a different definition of what is pornography.

Keep in mind, people, that often the most lurid and erotic image in these monthly or weekly comics appears on the cover. The contents are often disturbingly tame.

Mostly none of the above...they are following a story.

I am curious why you were concerned about adults reading stories about adult and sexual situations. The books are designed for an adult audience.

Are there a lot of magazines with naked men in Australia? There aren't here in America. Playgirl went out of business years ago. What some are mistaking for "porno mags" like Friday are not much different from British tabloids with Page 6 girls. It isn't pornography. There is no depiction of sex acts.

What could be offensive about a love hotel?

To the original poster

EDIT:

Now I see the image. And I agree with the face-palmity, but he is trying to mount evidence that Japan isn't a cesspool of depravity, so I can support that.

Oh.. It's just the facepalm one...

It's no big deal.

I'll try and fix

OK fair enough.

I don't need to describe waht I am seeing as pornography or actually take photos of the relevant reading materials, do I!


I heard it was art from a lot of Japanese that admired Manga.


In the middle of a crowded train with full exposure.

Half naked most of the time.

Totally agree with naked or half naked women/girls as not being pornography, but no, the Japanese books I am describing, and I'm not sure if they are termed "etchy manga" as you quoted, or something else, is definitely pornography to my eyes. So much so, that when I vist my local Japanese restaurant a few times a week, we have to pull my son away from the bookshelves that adorn the walls with such reading material.


Absolutely nothing and I find them rather romantic;)

Maybe a way to summarize the difference between Japan and America when it comes to stuff like prostitution is that in America, it is certainly there to be had if you want it and if you do, you should be ashamed. In Japan, it is just there if you want.

Many people would also find mixed bathing found at some onsen to be absolutely scandalous and proof of Japanese "low morals". Nothing could be further from the truth.

I'm not advocating any particular "sexual propriety standard" here... just talking about the origianl poster's point. It is all about what your "measuring stick" is. If you come from a background that finds an open attitude about "things sexual" as wrong, then a culture that does not hold that same belief will likely seem very different and threatening to you.

best,

...................john

You know, after some thought and reading through some of the responses, I have realized that I am really not qualified to comment much more.
I`ve simply been here far too long - and entered adulthood in Japan - so am really not that good of a judge for what is "loose morality" outside the country.

I figure some of the stuff I think is perfectly normal and acceptable probably isn`t thought of as such elsewhere.

That's extremely interesting.

I feel exactly the same way.

Alright, for the few face-palmers and such, I really see no reason whatsoever as to why you would facepalm this? So, please explain yourself.

To everyone else that has commented with information that I was actually looking for....So, Japan is a place where, there is plenty of sexual...'stuff' (whatever you want to call it) but only if your looking for it? I mean in America, there are plenty of strip clubs and stuff out and about, but it's obvious that you aren't being forced to walk in and participate. So, in Japan, there is clubs/love hotels, and whatever else, but it's confined (not sure if that's the right word to use)? What I'm trying to ask is, it's easily avoided/neglected right? It's not like if I was just walking to the store there'd be naked women/pornography/whatever else everywhere?

Please, seriously, I'm not trying to say/assume that Japan is a horrible place, I just want to make sure I have things straight, especially since I want to move there (the reason for posting in Living in Japan). What MMM said about my reason for posting is pretty much exactly right

It's probably at least as unobtrusive as the US, if not more. The one possible exception might be some bookstores, which may have an "adult section" not hidden away in some back room, but on the shelves like other section of books. But in general, Japan is fairly conservative in many ways, especially outside of the big cities. Some cultural norms are a little different, as was said before (bathing in the nude with the same gender is not considered scandalous, and mixed bathing is relatively rare), but Japan is certainly not like, say, Amsterdam, with pot in the coffee shops and prostitutes in the windows.

Second, Japanese people usually take responsibility VERY seriously. Hosting an exchange student is deemed a great responsibility, and most Japanese people who take it would watch out for the host student at least as much as their own kids, maybe more! While I was teaching in Japan for 2 years, I got to know the exchange students at my school, and they all said that their host families were very protective and doting (sometimes so much so that it annoyed the kids, who were more used to lenient western standards).

I have to wonder if this is all just an excuse for your parents to say "we don't want you to go"... If they are ok with letting you go anywhere for a semester, I honestly couldn't think of a safer place to go than Japan. But maybe going anywhere at all is out of the question for them. If that's the case, you'll have other chances later in life to go to Japan, perhaps in university or teaching English after you get a degree. Moving to Japan at the age of 24 was my first time living outside of my parents' house, and I got by just fine in Japan (without a host family or anything).

Well, it's definately not an excuse for them to say no. My dad really wants me to go to Japan, we looks at it as a huge opportunity. I know that for sure

Well then, ask if they can be more specific about just what they mean by "loose morals". That's really vague. And point out how seriously Japanese people take a responsibility like looking after a child who has been entrusted to live with them. Japan is not a wild, hedonistic country, far from it! It has some cultural differences from the US, but then, so does every foreign country. That's the whole point of going... if it were identical to your home country, why go? Beyond that, without more precise info on what the objection is, I'm not sure what to say.

You know Darks, I think all in all, you will know once you arrive, and like everywhere else on this planet of our's, evrybody, in every town in every country in every area is so different.

Cultures are just dying so fast and populations and governments are always leaning towards new scenarios.

As you say, you may very well get caught up in Japan with a partner that will accost you and takre you away to a local love hotel, In Australia the beach, maybe not, you may meet an old man that tells you something you are doing wrong, etc.

It's just all so different.

My last job in Japan was at a Japanese cram school.

We had different schools in different areas of Kyoto and Shiga. It's often said that local Kyoto people are very difficult. I think this mainly relates to their Kyoto proudness of culture, and following it to a T.

The mother's of the students at each school were so different.

I was based at the most difficult head school. Believe me, it was VERY difficult as the Mother's would pour on the heat like you would not believe.

My experience with Japanese girls is so varied that I couldn't even start to come to a determination about morals with them.

I found many JP guys to be fairly quite, although after a few drinks, the sky would be the limit!

Strip clubs.. A group of us went to one in Nara led by a good Japanese friend, forget it! The most boring thing i've seen. No entertainment whatsoever.

All in all, sex, studies, romance, education, fun, whatever, Japan has it, all varies by choice, chance and people and at the end of the day, forget it, once in Japan, you will learn.

Hope my opinion made some sort of sense:)

@Ozkai, I'm asking this, so that I can go to Japan. I can't just find out when I get there, because my parents wouldn't let me go, if they didn't know about the country

I just realized that now..

So the answer is definitely no and yes.. It's a difficult call as their are so many topics to discuss.

If their is one country in the world where you can feel safe, Japan would have to rank 1st in my books so you rest your parents on that.

Japanese people will help you out.

Just don't do anything illegal, for example, smoking Marijuana as it's higly illegal in Japan and the prison system within would not be a pleasant experience..

Not saying you would but many foreigners take the risk..

Like I said, try to find out something more specific than "loose morals". What exactly are their fears and beliefs about Japan that supposedly makes it so "loose"? Loose is one of the last words I'd ever use to describe Japan... not to be mean, but "uptight" and "conservative" are far more appropriate descriptors of the country as a whole, as are "honorable" and "responsible".

Americans often use the word "immoral" to describe the differences between them and other cultures.

Really? I must live in an immoral part of the country. Never hear that one.

There are certainly some times and some countries where it's appropriate. IMO, Japan isn't one of them, for the most part.

Try dropping the word "U-15 Idol" around Americans...

Classic Tenchu. Most Japanese find U-15 idolization a bit sick as well.