What is it realy like?

[Sangetsu]

Japan is my home too, but I'm a foreigner, and I always will be. No matter how well I speak the language, understand the culture, or even if I eventually become a permanent resident/citizen, I will still be a "gaikokujin". I can wear a yukata to a festival, eat anything on any menu in any restaurant, and even be admired for it, but that doesn't change what I am.

It amazes me how overboard some foreigners are to "becoming" Japanese. I find it hilarious when a Joe Johnson changes his name to Hiroshi Ogawa when he eventually gets PR.

Anyway, I like living here. I've been to other places around the world, so feeling like a foreigner is nothing new to me. I feel less out of place here than I did in Africa or Saudi Arabia.

[Tsuwabuki]

I think we have a philosophical difference of opinion. You are internalising a label used on you by others. In a paraphrase of Eleneor Roosevelt, this cannot be done without your consent. If Japan is home, then the failure of others to recognise your contribution to the community, it sounds like a personal problem on their parts and nothing you need feel troubled by. I'm not like Mr. Johnson. I am acclimated, but not interested in the closeminded aspects of some Japanese personalities. This makes me a critical thinker, not foriegner, because in the end, the labels I apply to myself are the only ones that matter.

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

I think we have a philosophical difference of opinion. You are internalising a label used on you by others. In a paraphrase of Eleneor Roosevelt, this cannot be done without your consent. If Japan is home, then the failure of others to recognise your contribution to the community, it sounds like a personal problem on their parts and nothing you need feel troubled by. I'm not like Mr. Johnson. I am acclimated, but not interested in the closeminded aspects of some Japanese personalities. This makes me a critical thinker, not foriegner, because in the end, the labels I apply to myself are the only ones that matter.

I'm not troubled by it at all, the world is what it is, regardless of my opinions about it or myself. I too am acclimated, as well as accepted (to an extent). If someone says I'm a foreigner, they are not labeling me, they are stating a rather obvious fact.

[GTJ]

What's it like?

You know when you smash your funny bone really hard on a sharp corner, and it hurts like crazy for the first while and then continues to throb the rest of the day and people just laugh at you mercilessly, regardless of how much pain you're in?


...It's kinda like that.

[AnniBirde3]

GTJ - You brought a happy smile to my day, much thanx ROFL

Sengetsu - Ill make sure my Uncle Joe doesnt go to Japan and change his name, very odd and scary that you picked Joe Johnson.

When you think about it we are all foreigners, in the country of our choice. If someone feels that where they are living at a certain point in time is Home, and creates a special place for it in their heart, then who cares if others view them as foreigners?
I know that Australia will always have a place in my heart, and yet I feel like a foreigner in the country to which i was born. Im of a mixed race and thus i dont look or act like anyone else in Australia, that makes me a foreigner.
Its not nice or fair to say to someone, 'You are foreign to this country/place, thus you dont fit' In this day and age who can realy say what dictates where you are form and where you should be?

I just asked about Japan, I didnt ask to be told that no matter how much I try i wont ever fit in.
Sorry

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by AnniBirde3

I just asked about Japan, I didnt ask to be told that no matter how much I try i wont ever fit in.
Sorry

To be fair, you can't ask a question like 'What's it really like' and expect a leprechauns and rainbows answer.

[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

I'm not troubled by it at all, the world is what it is, regardless of my opinions about it or myself. I too am acclimated, as well as accepted (to an extent). If someone says I'm a foreigner, they are not labeling me, they are stating a rather obvious fact.

Facts are objective, what constitutes "foriegnness" is very much subjective. It is an opinion. Sometimes I think New Yorkers or Californians are from a different planet, doesn't mean they really are. And I'm not sure I understand how Anne Coulter doesn't drive herself insane. These are examples of "foriegnness" that I feel hold a lot more weight than citizenship/nationality. Politically and culturally, I would say most Japanese make perfect sense to me, and I to them, whereas I can start naming entire groups of Americans I find to be completely nonsensical.

We, as humanity as a whole, need to move beyond this idea that pieces of paper like passports, social security numbers, or alien registration cards can define who we are and how we should relate to a community. It's silly, and while I will go through the legal motions, I won't internalise it the way you have and choose to believe the convenient fiction we print as opposed to the reality of how we feel about ourselves and our place in our communities.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

Facts are objective, what constitutes "foriegnness" is very much subjective. It is an opinion. Sometimes I think New Yorkers or Californians are from a different planet, doesn't mean they really are. And I'm not sure I understand how Anne Coulter doesn't drive herself insane. These are examples of "foriegnness" that I feel hold a lot more weight than citizenship/nationality. Politically and culturally, I would say most Japanese make perfect sense to me, and I to them, whereas I can start naming entire groups of Americans I find to be completely nonsensical.

We, as humanity as a whole, need to move beyond this idea that pieces of paper like passports, social security numbers, or alien registration cards can define who we are and how we should relate to a community. It's silly, and while I will go through the legal motions, I won't internalise it the way you have and choose to believe the convenient fiction we print as opposed to the reality of how we feel about ourselves and our place in our communities.

I agree with both Sangetsu and yourself both are excellent posts. From an observer's view your posts:

A foreigner will always carry the foreigner label.

Even if you are married to a Japanese, children with a Japanese, acclaim citizenship etc... by a majority of the public. Even "Half(s)" sometimes have this issue. You can dress, speak fluently with idioms but your looks and if your background is known you always have that possibility of being treated differently. Little things like being stopped in public and asked for your ID just because the officer can. Being stopped for driving a car and asked why the Japanese in the car is not driving despite having all the credentials. This affects finding a new job and how far you will go with a this job at a Japanese company.

Small things sometimes can get to you.... Even those with good intentions.
Yes, the only things that bother us are the things we let bother us, but it can grow on you.

But that is all it is, a label. I know it, we know it.
I think what Sangetsu was trying to say is that even though it is just a label, and it can be ignored, it is **always** there. And that is bothersome over a very long period of time.

Asian foreigners that look Japanese can either get none to less of this this treatment. For non-Japanese faces its will always be there.

Stereotypes will never vanish from Japan. Japan is not a melting pot like North America so I don't expect this.

In the end this isn't a "real problem" for a white American living in Middle Class Japan. You learn to ignore this and move on. Your family will never see you as this. You make friends that treat you no differently than their Japanese friends etc. Also the white foreign face can work for you positively in other aspects.

[GTJ]

First off I want to welcome you to the forum and thank you for joining to add such a wealth of knowledge and such a great perspective to this discussion!

Firstly,

Originally Posted by clintjm

eing stopped for driving a car and asked why the Japanese in the car is not driving despite having all the credentials.

Really?

Also, the things you mentioned--being stopped by policemen, not being able to go far in the jobs you're lucky enough to get--those are all rooted in ignorance and, most of the time, racism. It's a cosmic shame, really.

It's also a shame that Japan is the only modernized/industrialized/first world/whatever the PC people are calling it now, country that has no laws against racism or race- or gender-based discrimination. None. Foreign labor unions are getting a tiny bit of sway, but nothing we foreigners can do will shake the foundation of the ignorance of the Japanese government. You just have to learn to accept it for however long you're going to be there.

[ThaDuke]

I'm certain if you compare the US to Japan there are major differences. This may not be all of the major things, but the small things I'm sure of. Hell, housetek's list proves this.

I want to know about the currency and exchange rate; compared to the US.