What I don't like about Japan, but won't make me leave

[RickOShay]

After 6 years here, the only thing I have not been able to get over is the widespread smoking and the lack of segregation of smoking and non-smoking areas. I think I have posted it before but the irony just kills me about how it is important not to be a nuisance to others in public, yet I cannot think of anything more annoying than somebody blowing cancer in your face and stinking up your clothes, and all you wanna do is sit there and enjoy your ramen in peace. If the place is too small to segregate, it should just be a law that it is a mandatory non-smoking establishment.

I dream about the day Japan is a smoke-free nation.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

"Sorry mends no fences" is an idiom that means that an apology, by itself, doesn't do any work. In the case of the idiom, saying you're sorry that the fence isn't fixed yet doesn't get the fence fixed. Telling me you are sorry for the delay doesn't get me seated faster, and it doesn't allow me to ascertain how likely it is to happen in the future.

Nothing is going to fix the fact that you are not seated now. Like I said earlier, I am not so self-important that having to wait an extra 10 minutes is going to ruin the evening or really affect me. However, I would like the business to acknowledge the fact that they broke the social contract we had made. I don't need excuses, just that acknowledgement if they want me to come back again.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

This is, I suppose, the fundamental difference in viewpoints. I see just an apology (especially from one who is not directly to blame) as a way to be evasive about why the mistake was made. The Japanese view, and it seems your view, is that why the mistake was made is the equivocation. That seems to be the crux of the issue on receiving apologies. Giving apologies is another matter entirely.

I am not concerned about who is "directly to blame". Sh*t happens. I understand that. All I am asking is that the business acknowledge that sh*t happened, and that they take responsibility for that. Any employee is a representative of that business, and any acknowledgement of shortcoming, really, is good enough for me.

Originally Posted by RickOShay

After 6 years here, the only thing I have not been able to get over is the widespread smoking and the lack of segregation of smoking and non-smoking areas. I think I have posted it before but the irony just kills me about how it is important not to be a nuisance to others in public, yet I cannot think of anything more annoying than somebody blowing cancer in your face and stinking up your clothes, and all you wanna do is sit there and enjoy your ramen in peace. If the place is too small to segregate, it should just be a law that it is a mandatory non-smoking establishment.

I dream about the day Japan is a smoke-free nation.

I moved out of Japan in the late 90s. I feel what you are saying, but the no-smoking policies right now in Japan are much more tolerable than they were 10+ years ago. I went to fast food places with no "no smoking" areas back then. I am happy to see actual "no smoking" establishments now.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by MMM

Nothing is going to fix the fact that you are not seated now. Like I said earlier, I am not so self-important that having to wait an extra 10 minutes is going to ruin the evening or really affect me. However, I would like the business to acknowledge the fact that they broke the social contract we had made. I don't need excuses, just that acknowledgement if they want me to come back again.



I am not concerned about who is "directly to blame". Sh*t happens. I understand that. All I am asking is that the business acknowledge that sh*t happened, and that they take responsibility for that. Any employee is a representative of that business, and any acknowledgement of shortcoming, really, is good enough for me.



I moved out of Japan in the late 90s. I feel what you are saying, but the no-smoking policies right now in Japan are much more tolerable than they were 10+ years ago. I went to fast food places with no "no smoking" areas back then. I am happy to see actual "no smoking" establishments now.

Yes, I should add that you are correct, from what I have heard A LOT of progress has been made. Let's hope it keeps going.

[GoNative]

I work for a foreign company at the Niseko ski resort in Hokkaido. A great frustration of mine has been the almost total lack of investment by Japanese investors during a period this resort has seen significant growth in international visitors and a massive amount of investment from foreign investors. Particularly frustrating are the resort owners of the Hirafu ski area. It has been actually quite astounding their ineptitude at taking any sort of advantage at all of the recent growth. Most ski resorts in Japan are struggling with a declining market and many have been going bankrupt and closing in recent years. Niseko is one of the few that has seen growth and probably the only one that has seen 100's of millions of dollars in property and services investments. Problem is just about all the investment and those making money from the growth are foreigners. You would think if you're the managers of a ski area that had been in steady decline since the bubble years you would jump at the chance to capitalise on a new period of growth. Alas no, in recent talks with the resort managers and our company they fully admitted they have no idea how to deal with the foreign market that's coming here. That's 7 or so years on since foreigners started coming here in reasonable numbers. They have still no hired even one foreigner in any sort of position, let alone management, to assist them in understanding this market to take advantage of it. It simply astounds me. Is it any wonder the Japanese economy has been stagnant or declining for so long. They seem to have forgotten how to do business. Well at least that's my experience up here. I'm sure it's probably different down in big cities like Tokyo. At least I'd hope so!
I would love for more Japanese investors and companies to get involved up here. Shouldn't just be foreign companies taking advantage of the money to be made here.

[samokan]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

After 6 years here, the only thing I have not been able to get over is the widespread smoking and the lack of segregation of smoking and non-smoking areas. I think I have posted it before but the irony just kills me about how it is important not to be a nuisance to others in public, yet I cannot think of anything more annoying than somebody blowing cancer in your face and stinking up your clothes, and all you wanna do is sit there and enjoy your ramen in peace. If the place is too small to segregate, it should just be a law that it is a mandatory non-smoking establishment.

I dream about the day Japan is a smoke-free nation.

Amen to that.

[MissMisa]

As for apologies, from what I've heard, it goes like this.

Japan. 'I'm sorry I'm late.'

England. 'I'm sorry I'm late, I woke up late.'

USA. 'I'm sorry I'm late, I woke up late because my alarm clock ran out of batteries and my Mom didn't wake me up.'

Would that be an unfair assumption or is that how it is?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

As for apologies, from what I've heard, it goes like this.

Japan. 'I'm sorry I'm late.'

England. 'I'm sorry I'm late, I woke up late.'

USA. 'I'm sorry I'm late, I woke up late because my alarm clock ran out of batteries and my Mom didn't wake me up.'

Would that be an unfair assumption or is that how it is?

I would say that for Japan it would be: "I`m sorry I`m late. I will do my best not to be late again, and will take responsibility for whatever problems arise because I inconvenienced you."

I can`t comment on England...

And the US would be more like "Yeah, I`m sorry I`m late, but my alarm must have broken because it didn`t go off - and my stupid mom was supposed to wake me up but didn`t. So it`s not my fault, really."

[noodle]

I've always wondered this and felt it's too rude for me to ask the Japanese I know. In your experience, with Japanese in Japan and abroad (for short periods, maximum a couple of months on an exchange program of some sort), do you think they keep the same etiquettes etc?

The reason I ask is because a lot of the descriptions about Japanese I see on this forum are not what I experience with Japanese exchange students... One of which is this apology thing. I agree that they never try to make an excuse and they never try to explain, but NEVER, in the past four years of helping out the exchange students have I heard someone say something along the lines of what Nyoronin just put! So, do you guys know if they follow the principle of "when in Rome, do as the Romans"? or do they still act as though they're in Japan? or is it simply a new generation thing (all the students are never older than 23)?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by noodle

The reason I ask is because a lot of the descriptions about Japanese I see on this forum are not what I experience with Japanese exchange students... One of which is this apology thing. I agree that they never try to make an excuse and they never try to explain, but NEVER, in the past four years of helping out the exchange students have I heard someone say something along the lines of what Nyoronin just put! So, do you guys know if they follow the principle of "when in Rome, do as the Romans"? or do they still act as though they're in Japan? or is it simply a new generation thing (all the students are never older than 23)?

What I wrote was more a generalization than a specific translation of what people actually say. It`s more the general feel of the apology and the stuff that follows.

In Japan "I`m sorry" carries that meaning - it`s sort of one of those things that you don`t have to put into words. If someone says "I`m sorry" (which is really a basic translation as in most cases what is said isn`t really the same meaning as that, but there is no better way to translate it into English) the person receiving the apology accepts it to mean a certain thing - that certain thing being somewhat along the lines of what I wrote.

Simply saying "I`m sorry" doesn`t carry that same meaning in English - but there isn`t really a handy phrase in English that does... So I would imagine that they are saying it with the same feeling behind it whether they say it in English or Japanese.

I can`t really judge whether they are following the norm of where they are - but I can guess that they are apologizing with the same feeling behind as in Japanese. However, language isn`t words alone - culture is a huge part of it - so saying the closest words in English won`t necessarily convey the same meaning as in Japanese.

[Tsuwabuki]

I find the generalisation of the USA apology to be slightly offensive. Nyororin was joking, but I am unsure if MissMisa was. That being said, let me rewrite the apology to how I would say it:

"I'm sorry I'm late, I woke up late, my alarm clock's batteries were dead. I also spoke to my mother before I went to sleep asking if she would be my back up, she agreed but did not follow through. I plan to replace the batteries, buy a second alarm clock with a plug, and ask a buddy to call me as well. This way I will prevent the mistake from happening again. It's my fault that I didn't put even more protections in place, and I will endeavor to prevent a repeat of this mistake."

This is very different from the tone used above in the other posts. When a subordinate makes a mistake, I expect all of the information above. Not just an apology, not just a promise that it won't happen again, but an explanation of why it happened, and how the subordinate will attempt to prevent it from happening again. I cannot evaluate how a subordinate learns if I don't know what processes are involved.

If you would read into the "mother" line as shifting the blame to her, you would be wrong. No blame is being shifted. Blame remains on the person apologising. It was my fault for trusting my mother to be a reliable back up, just as it was mine for not checking the batteries, and mine for not having a second alarm clock.