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How to become a citizen or naturalize?
My fiancee and I both want to move to Japan, and we have done alot of research, but are coming up blanks on trying to move to Japan. My questions keep coming up with very few answers.
I know that to become a citizen, you have to live in Japan for 5 years, but still be considered American until you are accepted as a citizen over there. Now, I also know that you have to be considered a good citizen, but i have a misdemeanor on my record for something small and wasn't my fault...(please no jokes).. Do we live there five years, then apply, or do we apply first in order to live there, then live for set amount of years, then apply for final citizenship? How does it all work? What is the difference between becoming a permanent resident vs naturalization? finally, how does one "Demonstrate" proper american culture to the japanese...we were told by a friend this.." Jack applied for this right after college and got turned down because they didn't feel he represented American Culture strongly enough (too interested in Japaneese Culture apparrently)....is this true? can they turn you down because of this? finally, how does one demonstarte proper contribution to society in life over there? Do i have to be a teacher or write contributions to medical journals or things like that? |
just gunna touch on a few things...
1) permanent resident is what you're referring to, which is the equivalent of a United States Green Card (resident alien) 2) becoming a citizen is extremely difficult and nearly impossible in your situation 3) in order to become a permanent resident; unless extreme circumstances inwhich you can demonstrate you're a benefit to the country, you need to have lived there for 10 or more years with 5+ consecutive years holding a working visa. here's a good site that lists applications for permanent residency to kind of get your head around of what you're going up against (both acceptances and if you scroll down it shows denials as well): Permission for Permanent Residence 4) in order to live in japan in the first place, you must need a reason (visa) to do so. 5) this all doesn't apply to you if you are married to japanese citizen other exceptions: Special requirements for 10-year residence in principle (1) The person is a spouse of a Japanese national, special permanent resident or permanent resident, and has been in a real marital relationship for more than 3 years consecutively and has stayed in Japan more than 1 year consecutively. Or, the person is a true child of a Japanese national, special permanent resident or permanent resident, and has stayed in Japan more than 1 year consecutively. (2) The person has stayed in Japan for more than 5 years consecutively with the status of long term resident. (3) The person has been recognized as a refugee, and has stayed in Japan for more than 5 years consecutively after recognition. (4) The person has been recognized to have made a contribution to Japan in diplomatic, social, economic, cultural or other fields, and has stayed in Japan for more than 5 years. found here: Permission to Engage in an Activity Other Than That Permitted by the Status of Residence Previously Granted |
and back to step one, if you want to become any sort of resident you'll need to live in japan.. in order to live in japan you'll need a reason/visa to be there and i suggest you read MMM's thread http://www.japanforum.com/forum/livi...ive-japan.html
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Ok..so I am finishing my bach degree, and my reason for wanting to live there is the culture..I love the culture, and I basically am tired of the downside of my own country's wrongdoings with war and everything..second, what do you mean by this:
(2) The person has stayed in Japan for more than 5 years consecutively with the status of long term resident. (3) The person has been recognized as a refugee, and has stayed in Japan for more than 5 years consecutively after recognition. (4) The person has been recognized to have made a contribution to Japan in diplomatic, social, economic, cultural or other fields, and has stayed in Japan for more than 5 years. does this mean 1) i stay in japan for 5 years as a "citizen" without leaving, 2)refugee? 3) How do i make a contribution to their society in the field of counseling or healthcare administration? |
have you been there before? i'd highly suggest at least visiting before making such a huge jump.
as for youre questions, i was just copying and pasting the exceptions to the rule from that website (which is why it says refugees, obviously this isn't your case) ...to get an exception is very difficult, look at that first website i posted ( Permission for Permanent Residence ) and see what types of people they accept. Honestly I canot comment because I have no experience. However I do know a few things, if you want to work in the medical field in Japan you have to pass JLPT level 1 (japanese proficiency test) ...and to live in japan working in the medical field you'd have to have your employer sponsor your working visa. Thennnnnnnnnn you can talk about making significant contributions toward society. Basically you're biting off more than you can chew right now. Concentrate on getting there first as a worker (not at all an easy task), see how you like it and go from there. Hope this helps. |
oh definatly..one step at a time, cept my fiancee is one who is very future oriented...and will do what it takes to get where she wants to get to..
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i admire the determination, just wanted to let you know it's not the walk in the park it can be made out to be :ywave:
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I think you and your fiance are trying to plan things out very well, but sadly you might be setting yourselves up for disappointment, since you may think you know Japan, but if you have not been here I assure you that you do not. I think you should come here with the plan of "temporary visitor", if you can manage to get here, and then decide if this is how you want to live the rest of your life. |
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I think most of us will agree that the first year and even the second year in Japan just blows your mind and you feel like you want to live there forever. But once most of the novelty wears off it starts to grind a bit on your soul. A large part of this is because doing normal everyday things such as applying for a bank account, shopping for specific ingredients at a supermarket, sorting out insurance policies, superannuation, etc takes much more effort especially if you don't have a native speaker to assist you. |
Living in Japan as a foreigner does have it's challenges. After nearly 8 years here my wife decided she wants to move back to Australia. This was mainly brought on after we had a child and she would really like some family support. Personally I think I could have continued living here forever. I live an amazing lifestyle working at a ski resort in one of the snowiest parts of the country. We live in a small town that has a very relaxed way of life. We don't earn much money compared to what we earned in Australia but living costs are very low here and we already had accumulated significant financial resources before moving here. I wouldn't want to come here if you are just starting out as it would be pretty hard to really get ahead financially, especially without a Japanese spouse.
The hardest thing about moving here is getting your initial sponsored working visa. Most people do this through teaching english as it is one of the easiest ways to get sponsorship. Once you have the visa it is pretty easy to start moving onto other things as it's a lot easier to get your visa extended than getting the initial sponsorship. You can apply for citizenship after 5 continuous years here. You would need to be fluent in Japanese and have a very compelling story as to why you want to become a citizen. You would also be expected to give up your US citizenship. Most people just go for permanent residency which is a long haul if you are both foreigners (like my wife and I). You need to be here around 10 years and even then it's no guarantee they'll grant it. If you have made close ties within the community you live and can show a certain amount of integration and contribution to Japanese society then you have a reasonable chance. Can depend greatly on the individual immigration officer and what mood they are in on the day. Moving to another country to live is a big move. As others have pointed out Japan may seem like an amazing culture from afar but after years of living here there are many aspects of it that can really wear you down. It is a very different culture to what we are used to in the west and not all of it for the better. I would suggest travelling here a bit first. Get a feel for the country and work out which part of it you would like to live in. I for instance couldn't live in places like Tokyo. You could triple my income and I still wouldn't live there. Anyway good to have the dream but if you are serious about it you need to be very practical. Living standards in Japan for many are not that great and life here isn't all easy. |
oh, if i marry with japanese citizen i will become a japanese citizen? And not waiting until 5 year? (Sorry for my english :shy)
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Starting a business in Japan for example, what I did was like pulling all your teeth and nails off slowly. Had I been married it would have been a walk in the park. Imagine a form of 200 pages with a clause on the first page that says "If you have a spousal visa, go to the last page, and sign your name, that's it" lol |
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Yes , having a spousal visa helps a lot with work and starting a business but it will not guarantee for naturalization or even permanent residency.:vsign: |
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IMO it's all technicalities anyways, citizen, naturalized, resident, permanent resident, etc etc, who cares, if you have found a way to do what you like to do here then the semantics are pointless! :) |
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as long as I have a job and a visa , i'm good with it. :vsign: |
Haha, it wasn't as easy as imagined
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If I get a job at a conbini how long will it take to become a citizen?
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but I think you're better off getting a job at Disneyland dressed as mickey mouse, i hear it takes a few years off your required time in country :cool: |
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So should I rush to get a Japanese wife or can I take my time?
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1, 3 or in the future 5 years. |
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There's no difference with what you can do with the 1,3 or 5 year visas though
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M'kay. So, my wife and I have been looking into this and I have a lot of conflicting information that I want clear up if anyone can offer some insight. We are planning to move to Japan via the Global 30/MEXT scholarship programs. She is currently looking to becoming a research student at Tokyo Metropolitan College in the field of Geographic Information System (GIS) and Urban Planning. After the research period is over, she has the option to move straight into her Masters degree (which she plans to do). As long as she gets the proper recommendations (from her employer and/or the Japanese Consulate in America) and her Thesis is solid, everything should work itself out from there.
We have looked at numerous website weighing the difference between naturalization and permanent residency. We have decided that naturalization will best coincide with our future plans. As I understand it, the prerequisites for naturalization are as follows. 1) Live there five years. 2) Be over 20 years old. 3) No criminal record. 4) Proof of financial stability/ability to support one's self. 5) Competency in the language. 6) Relinquish citizenship in country of origin. Essentially, this criteria does not appear difficult to achieve, in the slightest. I have the means to get there and stay there (assuming plans do not fall through). However, is it really as easy as it appears? I have heard horror stories from friends about people they knew that have lived in Japan for 20 years, as missionaries, and their application is always denied. In contrast, I have read a lot of success stories online. Is it really so ambiguous? So, I have a couple major concerns... Aside from not meeting the above criteria, what other non-essential occurrences have the potential to cause a naturalization application to be denied? There has to be a reason why they would. I'm mostly referring to the case of the family that has been denied naturalization despite having been there so long. Also, friends with friends/family in Japan (so this is second hand information) tell me that one must have USD $90,000 worth of assets as part of qualifying for this process. I thought this might be construed as criteria #4. But, I haven't been able to find evidence to support this claim. Based on context, it appears that you must simply have the skills necessary to acquire/already have a job that can support a family adequately. Might anyone have clarification on this, as well? |
tl;dr
But did you ever say why you both want to just pack your bags and become citizens of Japan? |
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I`ve started, and (temporarily aborted due to financial constraints) the naturalization process, so will add what I know to the requirements. Quote:
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Being married to a Japanese citizen, having Japanese ancestry, having children who speak only Japanese, only being able to speak Japanese fluently, owning property in Japan, etc, are things that seem to make a difference. You prior visa history also seems to make a difference - someone who has gone through, say, a student vise → work visa → permanent residency visa is more likely to be looked on favorably than someone who has just been in Japan on a work visa. You don`t technically have to have a permanent residency visa, but there is no doubt that it goes a long way toward showing your commitment to remaining in the country. Another big factor that comes into play is how likely they think you are to leave Japan (a big reason for keeping a previous citizenship, for example) - something that goes hand in hand with how likely you are viewed to vote with interests other than those of Japan in mind. You may find this a significant wall - if you and your wife are both from another country, the roots you have laid down in Japan are likely to be considered more shallow than the roots of family and past you have left in another country. They also judge how likely you are to use your acquired citizenship as a foothold to bring others in your family (who now have direct blood ties to a citizen) into the country. Quote:
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---- The big bottleneck for me has been the required documentation and paperwork dealing with the US side. This requires multiple trips to the US - something that we can`t really afford. You need a LOT of documentation. You have to create a family record that is as detailed as those for the rest of the population... Some of this documentation simply doesn`t exist in other countries. I have to prove that I am a first child, that my parents were not married and divorced prior to my birth. I have to prove birth order for my siblings (as they go on the record too) and I have to prove that I have no additional siblings. I have to provide records of the birth of my parents, and records of their marriages and divorces. I also need detailed records of all of my addresses from birth to present.... The list goes on and on. Thank god I am not an only child as there is NO WAY to prove you are an only child based on US records. My parents are divorced and my father is, well, I don`t really know where. Scraping together records of his marriage/s and divorce/s, and proof of no other marriage/s and divorce/s is NOT easy. It`s virtually impossible with family I do still have contact with. Even with the easy ones, a lot of these records you have to be present to obtain. The costs of documentation and paperwork caused the process to jerk to a halt in my case. |
@koroshiya
pls be aware that the requirements that you listed above are only a guidelines. that is most likely why you hear so many different stories on naturalisation. each application will be looked at individually. for someone who is not married to a japanese citizen ten years seem to be the period that is most often mentioned. the government is apparently investigating whether or nor to introduce a point-system for visa/pr/naturalisation. i know a couple of years ago MoJ went to UK to study its system. current legislation on naturalisation THE NATIONALITY LAW |
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:quesballoon: Becoming legally Japanese: Questions :smokingbear: Becoming legally Japanese: FAQ: Which is more difficult: permanent residency or naturalization? |
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I imagine that there may be some level of exception that can be made if you can prove they`re dead, but as Japan keeps very detailed records of people I think there is an expectation that you`ll be able to find someone in the same sort of way in other countries. In my case, getting birth certificates from my siblings (with the mother clearly listed to match my own) and record of my mother`s tubal litigation was enough to show where my siblings on that side ended... But as I have no way to contact my father or the brother I know I have on that side - it means a trip to the US to hunt them down. |
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To us, these appear to have the potential to be quite a hassle. Not to mention that PR requires 10 years of residency as opposed to naturalization's 5-year requirement. Now, all that said, if the naturalization process proves to be more hassle than its worth, we'll shoot for PR after that. All the while, re-applying for naturalization until eligible for PR. That being said, our minds may change entirely after the schooling has finished. However, I am a future-planner, so this is all in an effort to be prepared for if we do decide to take that plunge. I'm not one to pass up the opportunity if it has the potential to arise. And I want to thank you for the information regarding lineage documentation. Unfortunately, both my parents are dead but I have loose contact with my younger siblings. The hard part will be contacting my step-siblings. Aside from that, if the Consulate here in America can tell me exactly what documentation I will need to have (prior to leaving) I can attempt to preempt the process a bit. Is there any other information that you believe would be valuable to my situation? @Blimp Yes, I am fully aware of what terms of eligibility are. I posted my concerns due to conflicting information and want for clarification. That is all. |
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Are you planning to do something that could prompt deportation? Most deportations are related to overstaying a visa - there is no chance of that with a PR visa. Quote:
There is a big reason why PR is a whole lot more popular than citizenship - it is, in reality, much easier and quicker to get. I have never heard of anyone who wasn`t eligible for PR being able to get citizenship. You may have missed out on it in my original post, but you`re still going to need to be in Japan for 5+ years on something other than a student visa (what your wife will have if she is there studying). It isn`t written, but is sort of unspoken that it`s "at least 5 years on a PR visa, 3 years on a spouse visa with 5+ years of marriage". Truly being eligible for the 5 years seems to require some significant contributions to the country (or Japanese heritage, although I think that this has less weight than it did in the past). Think of it was the absolute earliest you can be considered - not "If I have 5 years, I can get citizenship". A further question - I am curious on your reasons for considering giving up citizenship in your home country for that of Japan... Particularly when it appears that you have not lived in the country yet, and, as of this point have no family ties to the country. Until you give up citizenship in your former country, Japan can revoke your citizenship - so you will indeed need to give it up within a certain time frame. Quote:
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My reason for considering giving up my current citizenship is simple: I have nothing to keep me here. I am going to reboot my current situation and start from scratch. That includes leaving and not returning. Should I decide that Japan is not the place to do this, I will adjust my situation accordingly. The time that I am there for my wife's education will suffice as a trial period. As for my visa, I have a year to figure that out. If I am not mistaken, the Global 30/MEXT will take care of that. Again, I will figure that part out when the time comes. I have plenty of it. |
Hi , I know you are gathering information. So let me just put some examples for your reference.
Friend 1: Got a Naturalization in Less Than 8 years. She graduated in a Japanese University with a degree of Computer Science/Engineering. Worked in a Japanese Company afterwards. JLPT level1. Proficient in both written and reading Japanese. Married to a Japanese and have a kid with him. She got her Visa because of her skill. Self-sufficient. Friend 2: Got a PR for more than 30years of Living in Japan She got married to Japanese and had a kid with him. Spousal visa all the time. Can speak Japanese but not on a business level. Can barely write and read Japanese. Pass JLPT 2 before applying for PR visa. Worked Part-Time most of the time. Both friends were married to Japanese nationals, so it shortens the time requirement. But other than that it all comes down to skills and your contribution to the country. Personally , I have been in Japan for 7 years now and have an Engineer Visa. I usually get 1 or 3 years visa and the re-entry permit has the same span as my visa and I never had any problem with that. Anyways, my case is not the same as yours. Of course, there are also issues regarding the countries culture.. etc but I supposed you have already thought about them. Anyways, good luck :) |
btw. do you have to take a test like when trying to get american citizenship (which 40% of americans can't pass :cool: ) ?
or is it just your performance as a self-sufficient individual that matters? |
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My mother has two other brothers and me. We all have different fathers. I am the youngest of all of them, overall, but will this present complications? |
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And the majority of those who do live in Japan usually do not end up wanting to stay in the country permanently... This is particularly true when they a) Start out without Japanese language skills and b) Do not have family in Japan. (By marriage or blood relation.) Japanese does not appear to be an easy language to pick up in adulthood, and being in a home situation where the household language is something other than Japanese makes it even harder. Obviously, as there is such a long wait before you`ll be eligible for either PR or citizenship, it would be impossible to leap into either of them... And I am sure you will have more than enough time to figure out your feelings on living in the country permanently... But there are more than enough cases of people who think that Japan will be where they want to live, only to find they do not feel that way at all once they`ve lived here and experienced the difficulties of being immersed in a foreign culture with no escape. It makes me, at least, feel very iffy on simply encouraging someone to plan to take citizenship before they`ve even lived in the country. Quote:
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