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Seeking advice
Hello. My name is John. I have been entertaining the thought of moving and living in Japan since I was young. I have studied much about Japanese culture and customs through the years. I live in the United States and speak no Japanese. I don't plan to move to Japan in the near future, as I know I don't meet any of the requirements even closely enough to make it.
I'm 19 years old, almost 20. I've quit school and gotten my GED. As of yet, I have no college education. I plan on getting into IT engineering. I also plan on learning Japanese through the internet and by taking classes. I'm seeking advice on the best way to go about moving to Japan and starting a new life there. I've been reading on what is required and from what I've gathered, you need to know at least 3'rd grade Japanese, have a bachelors degree in the area of profession (10 years), and lots of luck. I know their has got to be lots I'm missing. I've read through the "Steps to moving to Japan" thread and am taking notes. Any advice is appreciated. |
For what it is worth, Japanese like foreign employees with a 4-year degree. Without that, you are going to have a hard time finding work there. It really doesn't matter what the degree is in, as long as you have it.
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Wow. That was fast. That is good news. I'm really determined to learn Japanese and move to Japan, no matter what it takes. From everywhere I read, the best way to learn Japanese is through complete imersion and that is most interesting to me. However, I would need to have a job in Japan in order to get by while I learn. So, I figure once I have the college education I need to land a job, I should think about making the move to Japan and learning Japanese while I am there. This brings me to my next question though.
Would you recommend trying to find a job in Japan before leaving stateside so it's setup when you arrive or are the chances of landing a job without a 1on1 interview in person next to nothing like I'd imagine? Or better yet, would it be recommended to get the foundation of Japanese basics down before complete imersion? |
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If you plan on getting a 4-year degree, then go through the JET Program. It's the most solid way to guarantee at least three years of life in Japan. Japanese language proficiancy isn't required, and they pay well. 95% of foreigners in Japan are foreign language teachers. The rest are doing jobs either you REALLY want to do (professional athlete) or REALLY don't want to (professional ... diddler). On no account can you expect to go there on a tourist visa and find a legitimate job. It just won't happen. You might find an illegit job, but if you overstay your visa you will be banned from the country for 10 or more years. Not the goal. |
Im some what in the same boat as you John. I too droped out and got my GED. Im saving up though and by the end of June 2008 i should be in LA where i plan to start and finish collage. Ive currently just started taking Japanese leasons on my spare time and ive started strengthening my relationship with friends in Japan. Luckly i know some people that'll help me out when i move there so i hope i wont have too much trouble. But you came to the right place, ive found out so much information in this forum that'll be helpfull in the future that i cant express my thanks enough to its members. Lets do out best to put their help to good use!!!
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Your first step is to enroll in a university. I would recommend one that has Japanese classes (doesn't have to have a Japanese major, just classes at least). Most larger universities have study abroad programs to Japan, and there's no better way to learn Japanese and experience daily life in Japan than to study abroad. Just like you said; complete immersion is the key. I studied abroad in Japan for one year (my junior year of college), and it was well worth it... one of the best times in my life. Right now I'm going on to my senior year of college back here in the US and am applying for the JET Program, so that I may go back to Japan (for good this time!).
As for working in Japan, teaching English is sort of the ticket into Japan, and once you're there and settled you can look into moving on to a real career after you're done teaching (or you can continue teaching if that's something you enjoy :D) Like MMM said, you can't just go to Japan and try to apply for a job. You have to apply before going to Japan so you can get a proper working visa. The JET Programme is good for this, because the hiring and interviewing is done right in the Japanese consulates here in the US (and in other countries). The JET Programme also doesn't really require much aside from a degree and a willingness to live in Japanese society. Japanese language skills do help, but they aren't necessary for the job. In my own opinion though, it is still best to become at least semi-fluent in the language before trying to live here - this is where the studying abroad came in for me, as I learned so much more Japanese by studying in Japan than I did before. Good luck! |
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So my best ticket into Japan would be recruitment into the JET Program (to teach English) once I have obtained a 4 year degree and have achieved a semi-fluency in Japanese? If so, that sounds like a nice goal to set for myself. Sorry to sound repetitive with it, I'm just trying to sum it up. I'm taking in as much info as I can and writing it down.
From there, if I get recruited and accepted by the JET program, I take it I sign up for a 3 year visa (at the consulate when I'm recruited), which can be renewed at the end of my 3'rd year? |
That all sounds about right to me. I would like to point out though, the JET Programme isn't your only option. There are other English teaching organizations, as well as individual schools, that you can seek employment with. The JET Programme is just one of the better-known options out there, and most people have a decent experience with them. Also, you can apply with JET before you actually have the degree. You just have to have it by the time you are actually sent to Japan to work. A lot of people (including me) apply for JET while they're still in their senior year of college.
As for the visa, you can only renew it if you get another job. So on your last year of JET (or whatever teaching occupation you are in), you would want to be seeking new employment as soon as possible, that way you don't have to leave Japan. That, however, is a long ways off, both for you AND me :D. |
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Thanks a BUNCH for the replies. This information is priceless. It seems like my plan's set, however, I have a few more unanswered questions.
First off, if I plan on taking courses for teaching, how long on average are the classes? 1-2 years? 3-4? And should I have some time under my belt on teaching here in the USA before applying for teaching English in a foreign country? Is their a license you must get with teaching English, a sort of certifcation to teach? Is it the same as what you would earn if you wanted to teach English in public shool here in the USA? (This is a question someone like MMM could probably answer for me: Is their a particular grade range English teaching, Japanese companies are looking for when recruiting an English teacher? Second, I know it really must help having friends in Japan beforehand (I've read this all over the internet). I know noone in Japan. I'm guessing the best way for me to make friends there would be, once I've gotten to a semi-fluential level of Japanese, to surf online for websites with chat rooms where those living in Japanese practice their English speaking abilities with foreignors, such as English speaking people, who want to practice their Japanese speaking skills. Maybe after a while of speaking to the same person, discuss meeting IRL when the time comes? As far as getting a degree goes, I plan on getting a Bachelor's Degree in Design (game design). However, I want to find out what the demand for video game designers is in Japan and compare that with the chances of a foreignor with a degree landing a position with one of those companies. I'm not sure as how I would go about finding out this sort of information and was maybe hoping someone here might be able to enlighten me on it. |
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Glad to be of help, John. 1) on the JET program you get a one year visa that can be renewed up to to times (three years total). They do not encourage people looking for other work while you are there, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least look. Your contract is exclusive (though I had another part-time job while I was there... the school just didn't know about it.) 2) Don't worry about taking any teaching or education classes (unless that interests you). You would be applying for ALT: Assistant Language Teacher. You would help a Japanese native speaker(s) with her classes. Every situation is different, but I was almost never in the classroom alone with students. 3) I had no friends in Japan where I lived. (I was outside of Osaka, and my closest friends were in Tokyo and Kyushu.) You will make friends with local JETS soon (if you apply to JET), but since I was a Japanese major I preferred to hang out with Japanese people. The neighborhood adopted me immediately. 4) The bad news: The chances of landing a job a game company in Japan are slim and none UNLESS you are fluent (and I mean FLUENT) and have something the Japanese designers don't... (good luck). Visa sponsorship is very difficult, and is almost exclusive to Foreign Language Schools. |
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#3 is pretty encouraging. That's really good news. You said you're a Japanese major. What do you mean by this? Do you mean you appear to be Japanese or of Japanese descent? I'm sure no doubt it helps but what if you don't? How accepting are the neighborhoods to gaijins eager to adapt to the Japanese lifestyle? As far as visas go, once you are nearing the end of your 2'nd renewal (3'rd year in Japan), how would you look into obtaining a visa to stay longer? I believe you need to've been in Japan for 5 years before you can apply for permanent residence as a Japanese citizen. Do you need to have a friend in Japan who's a permanent resident have this done somehow for you? I know you need to have at least a 3'rd grade Japanese reading and writing comprehension level when it comes time to prove your Japanese competance for citizenship. #4 was exactly what I was expecting. This brings me to what I wanted to ask should you have given me that answer. What kind of work is widely available to gaijins in Japan? What kind of degrees are going to help a gaijin in Japan? Once again, thanks a bunch for the responses. |
A 'major', in educational terms, is your focus during college. Someone who's an economics major takes a lot of classes on economics during college, and earns a degree such as 'Bachelor of Arts in Economics'. (Arts is a very loose term in education - it has nothing to do with painting in this case :D).
There are a small number of jobs that are easier for gaijins to get. Most of these involve... 1. Teaching (English, or other languages) 2. Translation (this is where I'm hoping to end up) 3. International relations (can either be on a business or government level) I know a fellow who worked for Square-Enix by the name of Richard Honeywood. He was the head of the localization department, and he was responsible for translating several of the Final Fantasy games into English. So it's not impossible for someone who loves games to work for a Japanese gaming company. Personally, it's a job I'd quite like to shoot for myself one day, but they are probably small in number -- there are a lot more translating jobs in areas such as business and legal firms. |
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As a "Japanese major" I took four years of Japanese language study, as well as studied Japanese art, history, culture, and literature. I am in no way a Japanese citizen. It doesn't help to be Japanse, either. It probably hurts. Of course every place is different, but I could tell you a thousand positive stories (and a dozen negative stories) about the neighborhood. I was in a (relatively) small industrial city between Osaka and Kobe with very few (caucasian) foreigners living there. I wasn't treated like a prince or anything, but I think the neighborhood was happy I was there... gave the place a little more cosmopolitan feel. The only setback was since I stuck out like a sore thumb, everyone knew what I was up to. "Oh, I heard you went and had yaki-niku last night at such and such last night." That's no big deal, though, and it shows that they care. Legit work available to gaijins is foreign language teacher. Other legit work will be from an American company with an office in Japan, or a Japanese company with foriegn office (of which Nintendo is one). But getting transferred to Japan in a one-in-a-million. The dream of being a game designer is probably best lived-out here (at least right now. In five years, who knows? Five years ago the Japanese and American markets couldn't have been any more different, but the interests are starting to get closer again.) |
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Yes...but... JET wants you to go home after you are done. That's the "deal" they have with the government. They will pay for your way home, but you may have to pay to get back again.
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Would you happen to use an instant messenger of some sort MMM? I use MSN primarily -reason I ask is, I have a few more questions I'd like to ask you in chat if that's not a problem.
I was wondeing, besides teaching, is their any sort of other job opportunities in Japan for a foreignor? What if I want to move to Japan and find a career to stay with for several years other then teaching? From what I've been reading all over the web, teaching is not what people say it's like. Are their any jobs involving a trade a foreignor could get once he or she is fluent in Japanese? Anything at all besides teaching? Teaching wouldn't be bad for getting a "foot in the door" in the Japanese environment, with a much bigger advantage to learn Japanese from total immersion. However, I don't see myself teaching English for the rest of my life. I'd like to know if their are any other opportunities available to a foreignor who's determined to make it in Japanese society once a foreignor is fluent in both reading and writing Japanese. I'm not expecting to land a top paying executive job but anything other then teaching. Something like a job where I'm more involved with other Japanese, speaking Japanese. |
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Besides teaching, legitimate job oppurtunities are limited. Your best bet is going to find an American company with an office in Japan or a Japanese company that had offices outside of Japan. Your best option is probably to marry a Japanese citizen who doesn't want to move to America. In that case you would have legal residency, and would not be forced to find a visa sponsor in a Japanese company. Visa sponsorship is as big a hassle there as it is in the US, and that's why companies that only REALLY need to have it (like foreign language schools) do it. |
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I guess that would mean the best option for getting around visa sponsorship would be to meet a Japanese woman and marry while you're in Japan teaching English. Is this realistic? Personally, I intend to marry a Japanese woman anyway when I move to Japan but how realistic is it expecting this? What if I keep getting renewals for foreign language schools until I reach year 5 and apply/get permanent residency in Japan? (Assuming I'm very lucky and actually am granted permanent residency). Would I then no longer be considered a foreignor and no longer need a visa period? Would this then open my options for getting a job with any Japanese company within Japan I'd meet the educational requirements for? I know their would still be discrimination issues but I'd imagine it would still be easier to get a job if you didn't need a visa. |
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You are getting into territory I am not so familiar with. I was not aware that 5 years gets you permanent residency. If that is possible, then, yes, not having to sponsor your visa would open up the job market to you 1000%. If you plan on living in Japan, then finding a wife in Japan is far from impossible. Especially in this day and age, we are seeing more and more international marriages, and without sounding snarky, if their daughter is going to marry a foreigner, many dads would prefer one from America or Europe. That is a sweeping generalizatation, but my father-in-law proudly takes me golfing with his business buddies when I am there, and I doubt that would happen if I was from Pakistan or SE Asia. |
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1. Become semi-fluent in Japanese 2. Decide on what field to earn a 4 year degree 3. Find out more information on English teaching companies in Japan |
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A little messed up logic, but reality. |
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By the way, English is taught in just about every school in Japan and all students must take English. They don't go to language schools unless they want extra education in English. A lot of adults do go to language schools, though. Point is, if you apply with JET, they're putting you in a regular school (whether it be high school, junior high, or elementary), and not any kind of language tutoring institution. Here's a good site about permanent residency in Japan -> www.debito.org: Brief on Japanese Permanent Residency Requirements The guy who runs the site also has tons of good information about Japanese citizenship, buying land/houses in Japan, becoming a professor at a Japanese university, and so on. Worth a look, I'd say. Quote:
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If I truly just want to remain in Japan, what would you say, in your own opinion, is the best degree to shoot for? I mean, if I planned to remain in the USA, it would be a whole lot different getting a degree. But if I want to make it in Japan, what degree would you most suggest above all to get for a 4 year degree? Let's just assume for a minute I'm getting permanent residency eventually.
With that said, I'll now ask - are the degrees in Japan on the same basis as those here in the USA? Or does a degree earned here in the USA not matter at all in Japan as long as it is a degree? I wouldn't think this but I just wanted to put the question out there. |
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It would matter what degree I chose if it were actually going to help me in America but I want to get renewals until permanent residency is an option, in which I then plan to remain in Japan. Are the degrees here in the USA the same type of degrees you earn in Japan? If so, wouldn't it be smart for me to find out what I want to do in Japan once I have permanent residency before I begin taking college courses towards a degree?
It just doesn't make sense to just get any degree, then get permanent residency and find out your degree is useless in Japan. Even if I were to get a degree in something that interests me, if I have no intentions on living in the USA, what good will it do me? Any information on how an American degree impacts your chances of landing a job once you've got permanent residency would be greatly appreciated (trying to make the right decisions now so I don't end up paying for it later). |
Think about what kind of work you want to do, not so much what degree you earn. I got a degree in Japanese. Japanese businessmen like business or international business degrees, but you can throw a rock and hit an international business major pretty easily.
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Thank you:)
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How does paying college loans work once you're living in Japan? Would I have the yen I'm making teaching converted to dollars and mailed back to the states?
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The best thing to do is to arrange to have a bank account that has online bill-pay, and offices in both the US and Japan. The only one I know of off-hand is Citibank.
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Okay, I'll look into Citibank.
Let's assume I get permanent residency one day. I no longer need a visa to work. If I had my name changed to a Japanese name, how tough is it to find a job in Japan? Let me take it a step further and say that I am completely fluent in Japanese and meet all requirements an employer requires on paper. Are their many foreignors who've gotten permanent residency working standard jobs in Japan that aren't "based" in Japan from an outside country? Or is it just near impossible for someone even after getting permanent residency to land a position with a job in Japan based on race? I'm not jumping to any assumptions as far as Japanese being racist, I'm just asking based on what I've read. Beings such a large percent of Japan is in fact Japanese, I could only assume if I had to that, even with permanent residency, Japanese fluency, and meeting all requirements, it would be very difficult to find an employer that would hire you after being interviewed. Could someone who knows from first hand experience enlighten me on this? This is going to play a big part in helping me make my decision on whether moving to Japan for the rest of my life to get closer to the pros of it's culture, are truly worth the investment. Nothing could be worst then to journey through the prerequisites of total imersion right until the very end, only to find out their is no opportunity for a career to a foreignor even after PR. |
see the site below:
lawyer visa japan immigration MOFA: A Guide to Japanese Visas - Types and Categories of Visa this one is the most detailed ( i think ) www.debito.org: Brief on Japanese Permanent Residency Requirements |
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I've read those 3 sites you listed and didn't find anything on the opportunity levels of finding a job once you have permanent residency. Thank you for providing the links though.
I understand all about the visas. From the information I've been gathering, it is nearly impossible to get a job from within Japan on a visa. Most employers, from what I've gathered, aren't going to hire you if you're working on a visa. So, my plan is to get renewals as an ALT or JTE until I can apply for permanent residency (through marriage to a Japanese resident, if I'm lucky). I'm seeking info on pretty much whether or not I can expect to get hired once I get permanent residency. Although I'll be legally a permanent resident, their will still be employers who won't hire me, since I don't have the "Asian" looks a natural born full blooded Japanese native would have. So, I'm wondering just how much of an impact not being naturally born Japanese will have on my chances for landing a career in something other then teaching English. |
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If you are planning to get a working visa, you need to get accepted on a job first before you can get the visa. Same goes with the student visa .. but as you say, you have already read all about this. Quote:
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good luck though.:vsign: |
I enjoyed Japan
Dear all,
I'm a new member here. I'm a journalist from Nepal. I came to Japan to participate in the Universal Congress of Esperanto, which took place in Facifiko Yokohama in Yokohama. It was a wonderfull gathering of over 1900 people from all over the world who speak the same international language Esperanto. It was a nice gathering. Esperanto movement started in Japan a century ago, and you have quite a big community here, with Esperanto clubs in all major cities. Wonderful. Afte the congress, I visited Yohohama, Kyoto, Okayama, Hiroshima, Osaka and Nara. In all cities, local espernatists provited me cozy home-stay and I got chance to learn more about Japanese society. It was indeed like a dream for me. You can read my travelogue in Esperanto at my blogsite: www.razeno.blogspot.com. Please visit the site www.jei.or.jp if you want to know about Esperanto-movement in Japan and for Esperanto en la mondo, please log on at www.esperanto.org I'm going back tomorow to Nepal. It was indeed a nice stay here. Thank you all, who helped supported and cared me during my visit. Sayonara.:rheart: :ywave: Razen Manandhar www.razeno.net |
Wow. That was kind of random.
Anyway... I had never heard about this "permanent residency after 5 years" thing. I was under the understanding that to be a permanent resident you need to have a full time job or be married here. You can't "default" to a permanent residency, I thought. The last thing Japan wants is foreigners without jobs, which would occur under the system you describe. Maybe it is something new, but I have never heard of it before... |
Marrying a Japanese girl was sarcasm. I thought the parenthesis gave that away. Guess not >< Although I do want to marry a Japanese girl someday ^.~
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In any case, from what I have read, it is true that if you are married to a permanent resident Japanese native, you can apply for permanent residency after 5 years. That's what I was getting to when I made that sarcastic remark.
I read the links you posted and understand what visas you get for what job you have. However, my question was asking what the chances are for a foreignor to land a job, once he or she has obtained permanent residency, in a field other then that of which he or she has been working up until permanent residency. The links you have provided give information on the types of visas available to foreignors, depending on their occupation. However, this pertains to foreignors who go to Japan with jobs they hold from wherever they are from, not from within Japan. From what I have read, going to Japan and applying for a job with a visa doesn't get you a job, except for those jobs within Japan which are centered around hiring foreignors on working visas (such as teaching their native language within Japan, English primarily). My plan is to get into Japan with teaching English as my ticket. Once I have permanent residency, I would like to look into making a career change. I have no desire to spend the rest of my life teaching English. I would like to do something else within Japan which does not pertain to English. By the time I can apply for permanent residency, I will be fluent in Japanese. Hence my question asking what the chances are for someone who has come to Japan as a foreignor but obtained permanent residency, getting a job by applying to a Japanese company from within Japan. Not the latter - going to Japan with a high demanded foreignor job like teaching. Basically put, I want to work a job like any Japanese native, next to Japanese natives, once I've gotten permanent residency. A job which is worked primarily by Japanese natives. Not a job foreignor based. That is my dream. I am seeking information on whether or not this dream is realistic or not. If someone knows, I'd greatly appreciate a response. I'm not just asking this question here. I'm also asking it on other forums so I can get an idea from several sources on whether or not my dream is entirely possible. Thank you in advance. If the way I worded my question before was not clear enough for you samoken, I apologize. I think this edit makes my question and intentions quite clear this time. |
First of all, MMM was commenting about the guy above him (I think), not your remark.
Second, it's not really possible to gauge your "chances" on landing a job that doesn't involve English. It's not like there's a percent or something. Here's the dilemma: while Japanese are not close-minded or anti-foreigner, if a Japanese employer has two job candidates with the same skills, one being a foreigner, and one being a Japanese person, they're likely to hire the Japanese person. That way there's no unknown expectations, no cultural differences to deal with, and is generally more worry-free for them. So in order to have better chances to land a job, you need to go above and beyond with what skills and expertises you have. You have to have something that the Japanese candidate does not. It also comes down to individual people. The HR guy at one company might be more open to foreigners than the HR guy at another company. The employer at one company might like the idea of making their company a little more 'diverse', while the employer at another company doesn't want to risk having to deal with any hassles. Let it be said that it is indeed very possible for a foreigner to get into a job that doesn't involve English (or anything else "foreigner related) in Japan. I ran into several guys from the US, UK, and Australia who were working IT jobs in Japan (who made good salary and were happy with their jobs). I even met a Canadian truck driver in Japan. There's also a Finnish politician who is on the Diet (the Japanese government) - google Marutei Tsurunen if you want more information on that guy. I think its possible to do be hired for just about any job in Japan, but the odds are just a little bit tougher than they are in other countries. I think the two most important things to work on to up your chances is to expand your skill set as much as possible, and to make networks and connections in Japan. The more people you know, the better chance you might have of finding a job opportunity. Though this probably isn't the definitive answer you're looking for, I think ultimately the chances of finding a good job all comes down to luck and being in the right place at the right time. Hope that helps. |
you don't need to wait to get a permanent residency to switch job/careers.
you just have to have to attitude of always giving 100% of your skill. Japanese companies always prefer a good working attitude.. putting work above everything else... their main motto is "always look busy" :D |
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