Homosexuality in Japan [DSX story ideas]
 

Not that I'm doing it, it's only for a story I plan on writing.

What I have planned is that there are two (teenage: one is 17, the other is 18, older by seven months and twenty days) girls who have been best friends since they were five.

The two were basically inseperable, and in their teen years they became unusually close for just best friends. Especially since one is an overall good girl (vegetarian, pacifist, loves animals, etc), and the other is all goth and dark.

So the good one moves away for a while, and the goth one really misses her, and that's when she realizes that she's a lesbian (heh, her name is Yuri too, go figure).

Otome (the good one, obviously), at first didn't want to go that far, and then...

I know with yuri anime and manga, there's no problem with it. But what about real-life lesbisn couples in Japan? Realism is what I'm going for.

So?

I am not sure I understand the question.

I'm pretty confused here? Are you asking how if or if not gay/lesbians are accepted in Japan? :confused:

How is it looked upon? Is it accepted or not?

It really depends on who you talk to. In my experience, it is more tolerated in Japan than most Americans think. There are gay clubs and gay bars, etc.

Wow...With what I was thinking, I might have made it some sort of a forbidden romance story.

Incredibly cliche lesbian stuff. Not all lesbians are goths/punks/hippies

You named her Yuri? *cringe* I sense some problems with a high-school male writing a lesbian story, heh

If they're Japanese, I imagine the reaction to be something like "What, so you think you're special? Quit trying to be unique" :D

If you want forbidden romance, make them Arab ;) Good luck with your work!

Hmm I never knew that! I thought it was greatly looked down upon.

1. Cliche? The two are almost total opposites in personality. I'm doing the opposites attract kinda thing...Kinda...

2. Yuri is a common girl's name in Japan, last time I checked. I gave Yuri her name to present irony. Seeing as how Yuri=lilies in translation, and Yuri is so dark....

EDIT: Yuri isn't totally what you think. Sure, she's tomboyish, but she isn't butch. The two are both femmes, it's just that Yuri is kinda the man in this one...

I guess you can call Otome a hippie. She just doesn't do drugs though. That, and she has much better fashion sense then to wear headbands and clothes with those trippy colors.

Oh, and I don't wanna make them Arab. It'll mess up the storyline for what I have planned. It'll VERY mess it up.

You still can. I think it would probably be hard to be out in high school in Japan, just as it is in the US.

Alrighty, I still have that factor...

I agree though that it is _incredibly_ cliché with the "goth" and the "pacifist/vegetarian" lesbians... My advice would be to first work on the depth of the characters, and the setting.

Whether or not homosexuality is looked down upon or not in Japan aint the issue, as I am sure you easily can create a setting where it is and a setting where it is not, without problem.

Just because they're opposites doesn't make it not cliche. Long story short, I had a lesbian friend who wrote lesbian stories, and it was always the hippie chicks, the punk chicks and the goth chicks. Always some kind of clique. I'm trying to be constructive, so if you want a good opposites attract story, make it deeper than the clothes they wear!

I know what Yuri means, but it's thin ice naming a lesbian that. It could be interpreted as kind of silly and childish. Like writing a baseball story and naming the main character Homerun McCatchwell

Sorry about the Arab thing, I misread and thought you wanted it to be forbidden. But I think MMM's suggestion would work, kids are all annoying and judgemental in high school :D

So if not Yuri, what name should it be? Hmm....

Ah yes, the deeper than the clothes they wear thing...I'll be back with more on this tomorrow. Gotta go to bed.

Night (and thanks), all.

I agree- for instance it is much more intriguing with a person who maybe doesn't stand out in public, knows how to act around people and "friends" but infact has a whole other depth to him/her. I don't just mean a clichéd "dark secret" though, it has to be done (very) well or that too is just cheesy.

I just like it when writers drop the whole stereotypic way of placing a character into a "slot", like goth,punk,blabla... And instead tries to portray a real human - then the possibilities are infinite.

So I've decided not to make Yuri a total goth (though I still have yet to find another name for her...), but because of what she has to cope with after Otome leaves, that's what drives her to her darker side.

That, and a supernatural factor. This isn't going to be just pure romance, but something of a supernatural thriller as well. Evil remains in Yuri's soul after a past life. Think reincarnation here. So, when she's picked on at school, that side of her comes out.

I'll probably try to make her something like I am. While I'm a dark person myself (at times), mostly I'm just a fun-loving joker. Maybe I should do that with her, give her a little piece of my soul.

Now with cliches...I never even heard of the goth chick-good chick thing. Now, I've seen butch and femme, but butches are mostly just tough. There's a difference between tough and dark/tomboyish, but now that I'm being told that there's stereotypes with what I planned I'm gonna have to find a way to change that up.

Still, I want Yuri to be a darker person. With what's going to be happening with her, it would be kinda stupid to just have her remain a joker and the like.

Hmm...How does Rei work as a name? That good enough?

Cliche?
 

One of the few things worse than doing something because everyone is, would be not doing something because anyone else is. It doesn't matter if something is cliche or not, as long as you write it well it has real potential. If you wish to write about characters like this then do so, regardless of if it is brand new or completely common.

In my opinion, writing cliche stories is harder than writing something completely new.

If I may make a suggestion though, I wouldn't be calling Yuri goth/punk/whatever in your mind because the way that you phrase things in your mind can affect your writing. Write about Yuri as a person, going through different stages in her life and just because she is going through a tough time does not mean that she is a sad person. Even if you want an all sad atmosphere in the story don't forget to change the mood a little, show different sides of the characters.

I apologize if I am not very clear, english is not my first language.

Writing cliche stories is only more difficult because they've been done over and over again. Stories about social issues like homosexuality and racism have been common for the last 40 years. These stories have been written mainly to raise awareness of these issues.

If you are writing such a story, the issue should not be the main part of the story. To tell the truth, the plot of the story is generally not it's most significant part. What is important is the quality and style of writing. A good writer can make VCR instructions interesting, whereas a bad writer can make a New England fall landscape seem as lousy as an insect bite.

If this is your first real effort at writing, you should stay away from difficult or abstract topics like sexuality or style. You'll spend too much time describing things that don't really matter. The idea behind good writing is not to be too descriptive, but to inspire the imagination of the reader. Good writing leaves blanks and openings which are filled by the reader.

You should start simply. Write a story about yourself, and what you did for a single day. A poor writer will only be able to manage a few paragraphs about a trip to Disney. A good writer could write an entire book about a day during which he never left his bedroom.

Words and phrases should be chosen to inspire imagination and emotion. Some writers are very descriptive, and include every detail. This is good writing, and effective when setting the scene for the next step in a closely written story. Other writers describe very little, giving only outlines which the reader must color in with his own imagination. Of both styles, the latter is better than the former, as it increases the involvement of the reader, and is a true expression of the highly skilled writer.

Well said. For me the plot is important, but not as important as character development and depth.

I think the best advice I ever heard as a young writer was

Write what you know.

MMM is right. Writing what you know is critical. As I was reading through the thread there were some things that came to mind from my own experience.

1) If you write about what you "think" you know, but haven't experienced (your scenario!) someone who has experienced it will know you are making it up and not necessarily very well. If you are male and still insist on writing about lesbians (please, no) at least find an honest, critical lesbian friend to read and critique your drafts. I would also suggest that you write it as a male character's observation and relationship with the couple, not as one of the women involved. It will be much closer to what you can honestly portray.

2) As for the name of the character(s), you can try what I do. I only write short stories (can't seem to finish the longer 2 projects) and I do not name my characters until it is finished. Just put a number or an initial instead of a name. Then I read the finished work and usually by the time that is done, I have a good feel for the names. Choosing the names are the hardest part for me - always, and this seems to work best.

3) While there is nothing original about a pacifist, vegetarian, goth lesbian, that doen't mean your character can't be original. You just need to flesh her out beyond the labels. Of the many I know who fit those categories, not a one of them is like any other. One is a dear friend, one a sworn enemy, some try my patience, and others are quite fun to hang around with. Make her a person, not a list a lables!

Well, I only "labeled" her as a quick summary.

For a male's perspective...I don't know who to have observe them, because they keep it secret.

Just a question - is this an actual romance story, like true love kind of thing
or is it one of those yuri stories that guys get turned on by?

Could somebody explain the meaning of the term "yuri" in this context? I wasn't aware of the term.

I think homosexuality is still something of a "love that dare not speak its namae" over here. I've noticed that bookstores in Japan don't seem to carry books or magazines on the gay lifestyle, whereas they're found in any bookstore worth the name back in Canada.

Nonetheless, much has changed. Even 10 years ago, gay people would go to great efforts to conceal their lifestyles. Not the case anymore, at least not in Tokyo.

Yuri (literature)-Manga and anime depicting lesbian relationships, whether it be romantic or sexual (or both)

Pervs will get turned on by it...

I plan on making this a true love story. I doubt that they'll do it, but if it comes down to it...

Still, for a perspective I don't know who to use...I was going to make two volumes: One for Yuri and one for Otome, because as I've said before, they're eventually split apart for a while.

But, I have very little insight into how lesbians think with the romance...Even with how I'm a romantic person, I can't capture their perspective. I can create a romantic atmosphere, but not the perfect perspective.

Hmm...Any lesbian members on here? PM me if you wanna help with this.

Ok, well for a romantic book, my advice would be just to write it as you would with a boy and girl thing, what you actually think love is
I wouldn't write it differently just because its two girls

Or you could make it that they are actually two personalities inside the head of one person.

????????????

XDDDDD

Ahahaha.

That was a good one.

No. The antagonist in The LoP Killer gets MPD along with other disorders.

The inevitable sex scene would be frickin' sweet :)

Well, I'll tell you two things:

1. They do have two different personalities, but it's still not MPD. It has to be above natural with this. Get where I'm going?

2. It'll be sweet, but abstinence is a bitch. Guess which one does it.

Since this is about your story and not about homosexuality in Japan, I am going to move it to User Creativity.

Alrighty. No problem with me.

It's not shunned upon in Japan but it's not fully accepted either.

I saw a Japanese movie about a lesbian couple. Maybe you could find it on crunchyroll.com or a website like that, but it's called "Love My Life" and it would really help you with your story :)

I'll check it out. Thanks.

I fully support your idea of writing a lesbian love story, since I'm a fan of yuri myself, but if you haven't read/watched that many lesbian stories/films, then I recommend you go do that...like, a LOT. This will give you a much broader and in-depth perspective of the genre. I've read a good number of yuri stories, whether it be manga, fanfics (omg >.>), or novels, and I can say with confidence that the way you perceive love between two females will drastically change the more you look into it. It's not always the "masculine female/feminine female" pairing.

Hope that helps ¦3

1) Homosexuality is for the most part accepted in the sense that it's generally ignored. Come on, you're talking about a country where Lesbians are a common feature of comic books and the Gay comic book market is friggen HUGE. Unrequented love story in Japan? You're gonna have to do some SERIOUS research and make it into one madly serious story (and probably need to set it back about 20-30 years) to make it stand out from every other lesbian comic book out there.

2) The commonality of Yuri as a girls name comes and goes but you're generally right I know like... 5 or 6 Yuri"something" More common is Yuri being the nickname and the full name Yuriko or Yurika But adding a Ko (child) kanji to the end of the name, that popularity comes and goes. (So the 3-5 year old range right now it's popular again, but the 14-18 range it's not so popular for their parents, but the 30-ish it's popular as well...
I teach a lot of age groups.) I'd reccomend a different name just because someone sees "Lesbian" and "Yuri" chances are they won't take your book seriously.

3) And this one's important.

Goth in Japan.
Goth in Japan society isn't the same as Goth in American Society.

Goth kids in America are seen as dark, depressed and morbid. However Goth in Japan is seen as dark, fashionable and cute. They have "My friend death" characters on pink t-shirts in Harajuku, and I see old women riding the train in fingerless gloves with pink skulls and crossboans on them, in a country where everyones hair is black and just dying it brown is like WOAH (unless your over 60, THEN you can dye it red, green or any colour under the sun :confused: ). Plus, since the majority of school involve uniforms (and the lower class your school is the less control you have over your uniform) chances are unless someone knows her well, and outside of school, no one would have a clue how she dresses in her free time. And if it was "Goth" she's not going to be a loner because well first off, Goth clothes here are friggen EX-PEN-SIVE and designer. And secondly there's a whole culture of it so she'd have lots of people to hang out with.

Good Girls in Japan in comparison with Good Girls in America.

What you describle Otome as isn't what I'd say is outragiously good. In fact I'd say she's just an adverage girl. It's a little odd of her to be Vegetarian (And a little impossible in Japan unless she want's to cook EVERYTHING herself) But you're talking about a society that is vegitable heavy, meat is usually a treat, and is Bhuddhist and Shinto by majority. WHY is she a vegetarian? Religious reasons? Moral reasons? How did she get to believe that way? And what kind of Vegetarian? Does she eat fish? Milk products? egg?
The Hippy movement never really came to Japan, well... I guess it did in a way with the Omshinrikyo and the student protests. But then one has to consider that the Japanese hippy movement involved violent killer cults and violent protests.
So hippys here arn't all that peace loving.
People protest here but not that much and it takes a long time to get people riled up to protest. There were protests for the Olympic games, you see people asking for unicef donations outside of stations sometimes. My school has a WWF club where they do bake sales to raise money to send to save animals but those girls arn't hippies, they're normal. And frankly I think most "Hippies" here are the same. Just regular people whom, instead of going to the gym or spending money on clothes, send letters to congress and spend money on donations and charities.


My biggest complaint so far with your story is that the whole story revolves around the relationship of two girls. Both girls are flat, random people that you just slapped a stereotype on without knowing very much about how those stereotypes are different in the country you decided to place these girls in.
Even trying to run them as opposites is a flat concept as hippies and goths being both generaly considered "Social rejects" are not DIE ENEMIES (oh noes!) so it's not like their circles of friends would be all that far apart.