Bringing an Adopted Child into Japan
 

I figure Nyororin will probably have to most information for me...

I just recently put my financial affairs in order, and I have about ¥4Million in the bank, I have a steady job here in Japan, I rarely use all of my income on a monthly basis and have a two bedroom apartment for just me. Things are looking good for starting a family...

Except, I have no interest in a spousal relationship any time soon. I am not even looking. I am, however, seriously thinking of adopting a child in the next few years. I firmly believe that with my income level, my household affairs in order, and my general responsibility, that I could be a good single parent.

I realise that Nyororin and I have spoken in the past about the difficulty in obtaining an adoption of a Japanese national, but I have no intention of leaving Japan. I just got back from my first visit to the US in nearly two years, and honestly... that place was weird. More importantly, it was not home. I didn't expect to feel so strongly, but I did.

Instead I was thinking of adopting from the PRC or the ROC, probably the ROC (Taiwan), because I believe I already meet the requirements on the ROC side (I am fairly certain I would meet the US Department of State requirements as well). And while gaining US citizenship for my child is a very simple matter according to State's website, I am concerned about what regulations I would need to deal with in regards to having a dependent child in Japan.

I would want to child to attend Japanese schools, but the language at home would be English. However, this depends largely on the rate of the child's acquisition of Mandarin, Taiwanese, or Hakka.

Thoughts?

Basically, you`ll need to adopt the child as a US citizen, following regular procedures to do so... And then bring the child into Japan as your adopted child. Which really shouldn`t be that hard. You just have to keep an eye on the age cut off for an adopted child to be applicable for a dependent visa. There is some level of strictness there. I think it is 6 at the time of adoption. A child over that cannot be brought into the country... Or rather, cannot obtain a visa as your dependent.

It should just be a matter of paperwork if the child is under 6. The potential problems would most likely lie with the country you are adopting the child from, and what they require of you.

The child would need to be six or under for ROC, because I am only 26, and they require a 20 year gap between adult and child. I know the procedures for both the ROC and the US, it was the Japanese issues I was concerned with.

I do know the State Department wants to do a home visit, but I believe consular officials can do that if the home is overseas...

As you`re not a Japanese citizen, and the child would be below 6 - you shouldn`t really have much trouble with the Japanese side... Other than the pain of paperwork, at least.

Would s/he be eligible for the public school system? (I don't see why not, of course).

Yep. Just the same as a biological child of yours.

Will US adoption agencies adopt to non-US residents?

The ROC is tightening things up in terms of letting its children out of China recently, as is Korea.

Living in Japan you probably know that adoption outside of families is almost unheard of. I am curious as to Nyororin's opinion on this, but I worked for a Japanese newspaper and we did a story on this very topic as it is so rare in Japan.

Sometimes adoptees in Japan don't even know they are adopted until they register for marriage. Even in these cases it is most often adopted to an aunt or uncle after the parents die in an accident or some case like that.

I would think hard before subjecting a child to the Japanese school system as not only a gaijin, but as a adoptee to a single parent, which I think might be more alienating than the gaijin part.

I think it's great that you are considering adoption. There are many children around the world that need a good home. I'm proud for you, Tsuwabuki.

I haven't seen anything legally that would prevent it. And US adoption agencies are not the only option; agencies in the ROC itself, as the example used, are allowed to deal directly with US citizens.

I knew the PRC had, but according to State, adoptions from the ROC to American citizens is on the rise.

I do, and Nyororin and I have spoken about it elsewhere another thread. However, that thread was directed at a teenaged poster with a fantasy of adopting a Japanese child.

This might be seen as the "adult's conversation" in regards to adoption.

My concern is that my income and high standard of living is not transferable to all parts of the country, and Fukuchiyama is pretty rural. I do think I could afford an international school. I do not think I would have any way of getting the child to the international school, however. Biological parents are restricted by these constraints, so I don't feel my case would be special.

I have several gaikokujin students, and I haven't encountered any widespread bullying or racist behavior, even when I intentionally observe when students are unaware of my presence. My experiences is these students: acquire English better, and that time in Japan is what determines acquisition of Japanese.

Take my student Kaori verses my student Marlex. The former is actually Brazilian of limited Japanese ancestry. Her name is not the original name she was born with, her parents changed it for easier integration, but her Japanese is perfect, and she does not remember a time before Japanese. Of course, she also speaks fluent Portuguese, as that is the language at home. Her friends know she was from Brazil, and her parents definitely don't look asian (surprisingly, Kaori does to a degree, in skin and hair color, but not in facial construction at all), but I have never seen her have any issues.

Marlex is another issue entirely. He's Filipino and his parents are Filipino immigrants. He's a late arrival and while he speaks fluent English, Filipino and some Spanish, he struggles with the Japanese school system because it's fully in a language he doesn't completely understand. He knows next to no kanji, and I don't think he should be in a Japanese school at all. He's bright, and funny, and a great kid, and his Japanese is good enough for friendships, but he doesn't belong in a school where the language of instruction is not one of his fluent languages.

I believe this is largely why adopting out of the country is restricted to child under school age: language acquisition. Kaori spoke some portuguese at three or four, but was able to pick up Japanese in Kindergarten. I do not see why a child of mine, living in Japan, in an English household, should not be able to do the same with Japanese/English.

As for the adopted/single parent bullying you imply is possible, I am not sure you can really say. Do you have anecdotal evidence? Obviously, I would think hard about any decision relating to adoption, and this is not something I intend to do this week on my trip to Taipei. At this point I don't think separating the child from the Japanese school system seems to be a good idea. Not just because of constraints imposed by job and geography, but also because I feel strongly that if the child lives in Japan, the child should have the opportunity to live as "normal" a life as possible in the country of residence. Fukuchiyama is very small, most my students live in walking distance of me, students' parents went to school with their teachers... That sort of thing. My friend Dave's children go to Taisho, a feeder elementary for my JHS. And they're pretty obvious with white skin, light brown hair, and green eyes. So far, Dave has not mentioned any issue they have had with the school system here. I highly doubt that it would be as big of an issue as you seem to suggest, at least at the elementary level. At the JHS or HS, if integration seems seriously strained, I could look into an international school in Kyoto.

I don't foresee this happening in the next year, but sometime between now and when I turn thirty. I think that's a reasonable timeframe with which to consider this decision.

Yes, you are right, I confused PRC and ROC.

I don't think being a foreigner would necessarily be a negative experience for a student, but I do think being adopted could be a target point for hazing. To be honest, I think the child might even be more alienated by adults than younger children.

Like I said, I worked on a Japanese newspaper article about adoption and in the course of the research I talked to several Japanese people about adoption. It was something I had never known about, and I found some attitudes rather shocking, to be honest.

I asked several Japanese people if their spouse, blood child and adopted child were drowning and they could only save two of them, who would they save? 100% said spouse and blood child. I asked what if it was spouse or adopted child 100% said spouse. None had to think about it. When I brought up the idea that some Americans would choose an adopted child over a spouse, they laughed or scoffed. "Blood before water" "But a spouse is not a blood relative" I countered. "It is the same as a blood relative. An adopted child will never be the same as a blood relative."

But don't take my word for it. Please talk to people around you and ask them what they think about it and what they think life would be like for you if you did it.

I have never been to Fukuchiyama, so I don't know about life there, but I think you should ask about it to colleagues and neighbors and friends. I hope the answers you get are less surprising than the ones I got.

I will do so, as that is very much surprising. I don't see what business it is of anyone else's where my child was born, but that's the fierce multicultural egalitarian in me, I suppose. I would say American or Western, but I have met too many Americans in specific, and Westerners in general, that have the same attitude.

I have family members that have adopted and I once was present in a situation where my cousin was showing off a child she had adopted from Laos, I think, and some woman exclaimed, "Oh my she's so cute, almost like a real child."

Moron. :|

There are idiots everywhere, to be sure, but it seems like this attitude about adoption is more...culturally institutionalized in Japan.

When I asked Japanese people if they would ever adopt a non-blood related child, 100% said no. Even if the child was Japanese? No. What if you couldn't have children? Then I would enjoy playing with nieces and nephews. The answers were so universal, that's why I think it is somehow ingrained in the Japanese culture. The idea of a non-blood person living in the home seemed too much. "You could never love an adopted child the same way as a blood child" was a phrase I heard from more than one Japanese mother.

O_o!!!

Okay, when I get back from Taipei, it'll be survey time. And this is why acclimation is not the same as cultural relativism. Such responses are incredibly hard for me to believe, and the last one is so flabbergastingly ridiculous that I'm not sure if I'm more shocked than I am appalled. That it is an attitude that Japan is far too modern not to give up. If it wasn't so heartbreakingly narrow-minded, I might be tempted to laugh.

I HOPE that Japanese mothers believe that only because the idea of adoption is so foreign. Every (America) adopting mother we talked to said they fell in love with their baby or child within moments (fathers took a little longer to come around, but usually within a few weeks). My fear is that the idea of "blood" is so ingrained that Japanese mothers really couldn't love an adopted child the same as a blood child.

I agree that the attitude is there. People DO feel that way about adoption. I`m pretty sure you`ll get some interesting responses to your survey.

The thing is, Tsuwabuki isn`t Japanese. This makes a world of difference. Something that would be unacceptable in Japanese culture will most likely be "Well, they`re not Japanese so it`s different." When it comes to responses.
I have noticed that while virtually no one would consider adoption, there isn`t a strong dislike of the practice itself. It`s all a case of "I could never do it." - if someone else does, it`s often even thought of as noble on their part. But still, "I could never do it." People generally believe that it would be impossible for them to care about an adopted child in the same way that they could care about a biological child... BUT they usually don`t think that it would be impossible for anyone to do that.

When it comes to single parenting, well, everyone knows someone who only has one parent. Everyone knows someone who was raised by grandparents. Everyone knows someone who was raised by an aunt/uncle. If someone is going to bully based on this, it`s because they`re looking for something to use for bullying. If they don`t find it here, they will elsewhere.

ETA;
In addition to the idea of adoption - if you word it differently, like "taking in an heir", etc - the response suddenly makes a 180 turn. "Oh, that`s fine." "Oh, that`s normal." "Oh, my uncle is 'adopted'!" "My father was 'adopted'" - etc. Adoption for the sake of having a child isn`t mainstream, but making a child/young adult honorary family to produce an heir isn`t considered the same thing. There are even legally two types of adoption - one for the western style, and one for heir production.

I think you are right, Nyororin, that bullies are going to bully, regardless.

What happens to children in Japan that don't have parents or family?

I just don't think it would be fair to take a child away from it's country of birth and raise it within a discriminating and conflicting society like Japan.

As for adopting a Japanese child within Japan as a foreigner, that sounds like you may need to cross two many a bridge for a long time to have the slightest chance of being "successful".

All in all, you are certainly heading into a big change in life if you are adoption successful and wish you all the best.

And America is not discriminating and conflicting in its own unique ways? If you think being adopted period in America is any kind of cake walk for child, or for that matter, parent, trust me, I have news for you...

As for the beginning clause of that sentence, it's not fair to rescue a child from being unwanted and abandoned and provided for by a parent who genuinely cares about his or her well-being? :rolleyes:

Right now my ability to provide for a child is tied to having an established life, my established life is in Japan.

I think it was fairly clear that adoption in Japan simply doesn't happen, and would not to a single parent non-citizen.

Thank you, although at this point it is all just a concept, not even really a plan. However, it is something that I want to do eventually. I want a child, always have, but it my case, I'm in no hurry to get married so I can have kids.

I'm sorry? Not being a cake walk in comparison to where or what? You have news for us? What news do you have to bring when you are "exploring a concept , not even really a plan" ??

I think Ozkai was stating that is you were to adopt a American child at 6 or younger, he would be placed into foreign environment and be singled out because he/she is adopted. You have no idea how kids with step / divorced / missing / adopted parents are treated in school and in life in Japan (by another child OR Adult) despite what you believe you see here in there as a teacher. Add being foreigner in there and you have the possibility of a bad time for the child. Plus add in the stress of language (outside of school) and a foreign society and culture would ostracize the child.

Rescuing a child from having no parents to live in a foreign world with also most likely being a stressful unhappy world ROBS the child of having the chance to be adopted by a local mother and father.

The reason you would be denied adoption is simple: a single parent bringing up a child that has to function in a foreign society than the one he or she has known since birth to a single foreign parent. It isn't going to happen in Japan. Believe all the posts you read here about how impossible your "concept".

And yes when it comes down to it, Japanese (like other Asian cultures) would do almost anything to have a non-blood related child. A Japanese married to an Foreign male I know has stated that she is against adopting because it is a non-blood child - flat out against it. She would consider a donor egg though as the blood relation between her husband and child would exist. She said the donor egg would not have to be Japanese. I say donor egg because she is not able to conceive - this should be proof enough.

In regards to one of your previous post on this topic. you are correct in thinking your income and high standard of living is not transferable to all parts of the country. The best schools for the child would be in the city (academic wise), and in general 4 million in the bank would not be enough for a rainy day.

It is an old Japanese mindset, even more prominent in Korea, that is the child actual family tree is not known, then the child is unknown. This is why in Japan and again more so in Korea that it is truly difficult for a adopted child to marry into another family if it is known that he or she is adopted. Since the root of the child are unknown the family that the son/daughter would marry into would break their family tree.

Old concept... but surprisingly very very alive.

Also, lay off the "America is discriminating" deal... sorry you've had a rough go in the states but you should not be surprised that the opinions of many nations are same in many countries beliefs. Discrimination is everywhere, and I believe Japan has just as much as any other nation... maybe in different forms or in different places, but there just the same.

You say:
"I would say American or Western, but I have met too many Americans in specific, and Westerners in general, that have the same attitude.

I have family members that have adopted and I once was present in a situation where my cousin was showing off a child she had adopted from Laos, I think, and some woman exclaimed, "Oh my she's so cute, almost like a real child."
Moron. :|
"

Also I can find one Japanese or whatever country say something stupid or have a stupid belief just the same as your quote.

This post, along with the others elsewhere you have posted, seem to have a very emotional tone. I won't characterise it, yet, as angry, but I am reading this with a fair amount of hostility. Am I wrong?

It's a figure of speech. I'm not sure why the use of a normal figure of speech would have you this riled up. I was simply saying adoption is a very difficult process, a long process, and one that is going to be difficult and long regardless of the combination of nationalities, ethnicities, and residencies. The idea that adoption of an American in America by an American living in America is somehow substantially easier and not fraught with difficulties of its own is not, in my opinion, a well-researched view.

I have some idea. I do not feel I have enough of an idea. I do not plan to initiate any plan until I have done a lot of research. Adoption can take as long as a year or more, and preparation for it can, and should, take longer. Of course, I would plan to speak to my coworkers, my neighbors, my friends who are married and have children, before I make any decision. These are the beginning steps. I asked for thoughts because I want to present a serious topic on adoption to the community, but I am not looking for advice from most of the individuals on this community, because, no offense intended, most of the individuals here are not capable of offering experiences that are actually relevant. Nyororin is a definite exception. This doesn't mean I am not interested in others' thoughts.

My friends from high school and college are getting married and having children. I do not feel I am at an age where my interest in adoption has to be a detailed plan for it to be taken seriously. I say this is a concept because I feel that I am ready to start the research and preparation period, it won't become a plan, if it does become a plan, until I feel I have done that. If your criticism is that I am moving too fast, I think you have seriously misread me.

I've rewritten my response to this three times, because I don't want to come off as hostile. I think this argument is seriously flawed. I suppose it's a philosophical disagreement, but I feel certain adoption is better than a possible future adoption, as long as the quality of the adopting parents is high. Is it possible high quality local parents might come along later? Yes. It is also possible that low quality local parents might come along later. Most depressingly, it is possible for the child to be lost in the system.

How you can suggest that being raised in a country other than the origin country is "most likely" a "stressful unhappy" life, I don't know. You state it, but you don't offer an evidence for this.

...Are you even fully reading this thread? This paragraph isn't even directed at me. It would be better placed inside the "Child Adoption" thread and directed at the individuals who think adoption is the same as having a pet or a dolfie. And your points aren't entirely, or even mostly, valid.

I'm not following this. I think you missed some negating phrases or particles. You seem to be backing up MMM's posts, but while I said it was shocking, I never said I failed to believe him.

I make more and have more in savings than my friends with biological children of their own. And on the contrary, ¥4million yen is the equivalent of $40,000, and is more than enough for me to go an entire year without employment. I have no debts, only assets. No mortgage, no car payment, no credit cards. So, I disagree. I think I do indeed have enough for a rainy day, in the area I live in. I also just extended my visa last Monday. If I did lose my job, I would easily be able to pay the bills while I found another one: and as an English teacher in Japan with my experience, I would find one making almost as much as I do now. My bills might increase, and my standard of living might drop, but $40K is a pretty serious cushion to have, and this especially true for someone of my age.

I'm aware of this, and know it, through personal experience to be true, but my child would be an American, and not subject to the same rules, just as I myself am not subject to those rules if I were to get married.

Please read more closely.

If you're going to make references to several posts, then you really need to make sure you are aware of all the posts. I have also stated I will never give up US citizenship, and that I have actually become prouder of America than I was when I lived there. When I left America, I did not have an opinion either way. Now I see the amount of good America has done in the world, and that makes me quite proud to be an American. And you don't even want to get me started on how awesome Texas is. :cool:

Now, I have said that going back to America was weird, and I suffered reverse culture shock, and that I wouldn't want to live there while things are going well in Japan, and they aren't going well there. These have to do mostly with political and economic realities, and if Congress and President Obama can really do the things they promised, even only halfway, my view might change. Japan has public health care that works, it has public transportation. When America has these things too, then maybe I will move back.

You and I agree that discrimination is everywhere, as I have said elsewhere, we agree. This was my point. Here and elsewhere discrimination is very much alive. My point was that, alone, is not the reason to dismiss me so glibly.

You are not reading. You are clearly skimming, getting riled up for no reason, and going off half-cocked.

MMM already offered those beliefs, and the above was my response to it.

I don't get angry .. I get mad.


Whatever man... the difference is your taking the child out of their element into a foreign environment that puts them right in the spot light for them to be discrimated against. Take that with having to trust a new stranger as their single parent would never be allowed by any American adoption agency. Your bringing a child into a country that is not his or her own be raised in that country would always be a foreigner there. This is childish dream I should of never responded to.

Do read on the US state and federal requirements ; before one would make a fool of themselves in front of the adoption board. Your plan / concept is silly even in a couple of years (based on first post of this thread)... Maybe by then you'll understand that any U.S. Adoption agency wouldn't allow you to adopt based on the *first post* of this thread alone. US Adoption agencies need guarentees that the child is well cared for. A single US citizen father in a foriegn country on a work (I assume work) visa wanting to take a child over to a foreign country would never be allowed for all the reasons I stated and much much more.

Reverse culture shock is a term made up by international study phds with too much time on their hands... ^_^

Oh boy...now we are off topic:

Yes yes...Japan has great public Transportation (but not cheap)... but you won't ever see true public transportation in all of the US... why?? Think about it... thats right... Japan is the size of California... Urban sprawl. It doesn't work in the land of this size. Seattle just spend 2.8 billion on a light rail system that runs 14 miles and is EMPTY during their rush hour. Gas is cheap and DAMN cars are cheap now. With Obama and friends HANDING out $4500 to buy a new car that only gets 4 more MPG than the used car. Why would America change? He is not the answer....he, like more government, is the problem.

Yes Nationalized health care works wonders in the UK and Canada... enjoy your 24 hour wait in the ER or 1 month wait for a scan or 3 months to start cancer treatment. US has one of the BEST system in the world. The 15% of citizens not insured and the illegals getting free medical care are the cause of why health care and health insurance is sky high for the individual.

Japan's health insurance system is nice, but it just wont work with the complexities and size of the American population... Plus it doesn't hurt to say that over 50 percent of Japanese hospitals are in financial deficit now.

I do appreciate those who do move abroad that don't care for what is offerred here.
As the old saying goes... "If you don't like it here, why don't you move to another country"... and so he did... until things happened their ^^/

There is a happy median there somewhere..

If you're mad, then the conversation should be over. You need to step back, take a breath, and examine why you've allowed an internet conversation to annoy you that much.

You make a lot of claims and back them up with nothing. I have read the US federal and the Texas state guidelines. I have also read the ROC guidelines. I acknowledged my concern about a State official making a home visit, but embassy/consular staff are State officials. If you know differently, please present evidence.

I am not a child. I am a very responsible adult who has done very well in two different countries. Unlike many Americans, I was able to pay off my student loans in three years. I have worked hard to get where I am, and I have done so by recognising opportunities and pursuing them, but not while accepting an undue level of risk. Your assessment of my interest in adoption is not only inaccurate, it is highly inflammatory.

Your political views are ones I strongly disagree with. With your current tone, I will decline engaging you, but will make a donation to MoveOn.org just because of your post. In the end, due to a number of factors, I judge your "advice" to be highly biased, prejudicial, and uninformed. I cannot, in good conscience, consider it in my deliberations. However, thank you for contributing to the dialogue.

I'm not really mad, just angry... wait... maybe I just get off on debating the ridiculous.

Well I don't think I can backup all the experience I've and others like me have had other than to type them up and have them critiqued by you and such... I've got better things to do to... so you can just ignore the 18 wheeler approaching you as you stand in the middle of the street.

I don't think you are a child, if I mistyped somewhere up there, my appologies. Maybe a bit "young" in your ideas. Please let me save off this post and deliver it up to you in 5 years or so we can both have a good laugh.

Well why don't you take a bow mister very responsibility.... congrats on paying off your student loan. How shall the government reward you for doing this?

Sorry you don't like the tone... maybe its your amplifier.

Well hell yeah you disagree :ywave: or I wouldn't be hijacking this thread.

the moveon.org donation comment was witty.:D

Trust me it was my pleasure to dispute your crazy plan ^_^

But all in all your debating skills are much better than mine when I was your age.

Now this I believe, because in many ways, you strike me as a troll.

Just who are you, what experience do you have, how do you expect me to believe anything you say without warrant and justification? You need evidence.

You called my interest in adoption a "childish dream." That's more than just saying I'm "a bit 'young' in [my] ideas." Actually, I think the me of five years from now will be quite pleased with the me of now, for reasons already explained. I'm quite a bit ahead of the game compared to my peers. I have savings, I have a steady job, I have a retirement account, I have no debts. How many mid-twenty year olds can you name that can say the same? I think I can name maybe two of my friends who fall into this category. The vast majority do not.

Jackass. :rolleyes: My point is that I have shown a great degree of responsibility most Americans, including those with children have not. I am certainly more successful than most of the people I went to high school with. Doesn't prevent them from becoming parents, does it?

I think my ability to be responsible speaks very well to my ability to be a parent. *shrug* And your opinion, as demonstrated elsewhere, is not relevant.

For someone who claims knowledge by virtue of age and experience, that's a pretty immature attitude. You shouldn't want to "hijack" a thread. Not if you're such a mature adult.

It wasn't meant to be witty. It was meant to be true. Every time I meet a someone whose political views flabbergast me, I give money to an organization that actually can find the time to put boots on the ground and ads on the air to help spread the opposite views. I don't, not anymore. I used to. My job before Japan? I worked for the DNC.

No, it was your pleasure to be ridiculous as you said above. Your opposition without evidence is crazy.

Thank you, I am sure my philosophy professors will be thrilled to hear your opinion on the matter. Now, as long as a grad school admission committee agrees with you, sounds like I'm golden.

clintjm - Allow me to ask.

Have you ever looked into actually adopting a child in Japan?
Let me guess - No. Some of us, however, have. Some of us know foreigners who adopted children in Japan. Some of us know foreigners in Japan with adopted children brought from elsewhere.
You have made it quite clear that you don`t really like Japan, don`t enjoy living there, and have serious issues with the culture and lifestyle. Some people do not. Learn to live with it.

Ohhh sorry didn't know there was a need for papers and ID check here...
I'm sorry you didn't like my advice in this post or the other one. But you can't call me a troll for posting on the topic you brought up or differences in advice. Its so easy to cry troll when you start feeling challenged.

No, adoption in itself isn't childish at all, but the idea of a Single Parent to go back to his home , have the agency adopt a child to take back to a foreign country on a single income is. Also its harmful to the adopted child itself due to the fact that he or she is being taking to a foreign land at the same time being adopted to trust this new stranger in their life.. Just is not right.

Well lets not start calling each other "childish" names now. Well I'm glad you can take that grand title or Very Responsible compared to your high school chums. Pat yourself on the back and look down on all those take government handouts... oh wait... that is the politcs you support.

While the default rate is at average of 18% and has grown slightly due to the American Recession I don't believe that qualifies you as showing a "great degree of responsibility". Nothing wrong with being parents at a young age (22 and up) with a good family base.

Perhaps you would make a good partent.... but the situation you created of being a
-*single* parent *adopting* and moving a kid to Japan, which the people are proven to discriminate against adopted let alone single parents. Its is a bit strange. I would welcome anyone else to join the discussion on this. Then again there is no need because the adoption process would never go through for the situation you have setup.
Thus its a fantasy.


What more immature is that you deny the advice you asked for in the first post of this thread.

You shouldn't be surprised to meet someone whose views go against pissing the USA economy into a socialist anarchy

DNC: When you were 20 or 21... great ... again no big surprise at all. Guess you got all the answers then.

Well you can escape to Japan to avoid the US hard ships for now. I'm so glad you'll consider coming back after public transportation and health care is to you're liking...
(as you said you would only then consider)

geez...

I'm not sure what evidence you would like? I'm mean its a given fact that single parent adoption to a 25-30 y/o and then taking that child into a foreign envionment would fail the best interest of the child...

But of course you are free to try... just giving you fair warning it will never fly...
Which I take solace in...


Big surprise... philosophy major... you'll go far with that in politics perhaps... in fact you'll fit right in with the jokers today...
Enjoy the imaginary ivory tower while your young... when it comes time to move on from teaching English to young kids(my guess is what you do) and move on to a career be sure to put this post on your resume.

Also be sure to apply to a Japanese University Grad program because the US is just not to your liking until more reform has come.

Yes you may ask..

Yes, but I seriously doubt that those children you speak of meet the items listed in tsuwabuki post... young single parent adopting from the US, then taking that child to a foreign country. If a US adoption agency in any state allowed this, then they would be negligent.

In regards to your cross post reply:
Never said I didn't like Japan... love it in fact...
Don't know where you get this idea about me hating culture and lifestyle... again love it.
Just don't like how society will always treat foreigners ...
I understand you have beer glasses on now being young and in Japan now... , one day you will understand if you continue to live in Japan.


I have accepted this fact and will live it. However for those who paint it to be all peaches and cream, I have a write to voice my opinion and tell those who decide to go to Japan to expect what I have stated in this and the other thread "whats it like?".

I'm not going to give up on the US or run away from the problems that exist there either. Replies such as well if such and such gets better or I don't feel wierd in such and such situation, I might live there again if I choose... make me angry (or MAD if you will).

Well the thread actually is about tsuwabuki adopting from his home country, Us/Texus. Not Japan. Its an unfortunate fact for me and my wife that we will most likely have to adopt to have a child. It is next to impossible to adopt from Japan - for a foreigner... maybe not by law... but the unwritten ones will always make this so.. (this is true even so that my wife is Japanese). We have looked into one in Kyushuu but we were told "on the side" it is unlikely but could start the paperwork because we met the "requirements".

It is necessary to back up what you say with evidence. Personal experiences are a start, but since I have personal experiences as well, that means you'll need to pair them with other forms of evidence. Articles, statistics, websites, scholarly papers. You make a lot of claims, but you do not back them up.

You yourself said you like to argue for the sake of being ridiculous. If that's because you enjoy seeing the reactions you get, then guess what, you're a troll.

I've taken child and adolescent psychology. This is a perfect example of where you make a pretty serious claim, and you need to back it up. Do you have any published work to use as evidence? If you can provide literature where it suggests this will have a permanent, detrimental effect on the child, please provide it. I have yet to see anything that suggests this, nor have I seen it in my personal experiences. Therefore, as above, until you offer me a body of evidence, I am free to reject your assertions as warrantless and unjustified.

The "jackass" was meant to match your absurd tone with my own, hence the rolling eyes. You started using the informal tone, I just replied in it.

You provide numbers without citation. Even if the default rate is 18%, or 20% if it has grown slightly, that is still 1 in 5 Americans. I wasn't talking about default anyway, I was talking about getting paid off. And you haven't shown those are real numbers yet. Evidence without source is just as bad as no evidence at all.

Make claim, offer no evidence. Make claim, offer no evidence. Seems to be your SOP. You also have said several things I never did. From the guidelines on the State website there does not to be an issue that would match what you describe. I can meet all of the qualifications, as I understand them. If I do not understand them, well, that will be up to a State official to explain that to me. Why? Because that official can back up what he or she will explain with evidence.

I didn't ask for advice, I asked for thoughts. I said in the very first line that I felt Nyororin was the possible, and probably the only, exception.

I am surprised every time I do so, thinking that eventually, maybe, people who are otherwise quite intelligent may stop thinking that "rugged individualism" can save everyone.

.

I was 23, and no, not all the answers, but enough to know that people who claim to be conservatives are not really fiscally conservative, and if America is going to spend under a political group, I'd rather it be for reasons I agree with.

When it is possible for me to make a living in America, comfortably, I will return. The world is more than just the US, for someone who claims to have traveled extensively, you should know. So if the benefits I receive for my employment in Japan are better than the benefits I would receive in America, it is only economically sensical to move. Aren't you conservatives all for free trade and unrestricted capitalism, a la the invisible hand. In fact, didn't Reaganomics claim the be the return of Adam Smith to his rightful place? You of all people should be applauding my decision based on capitalist principles.

Another Reagan moment... There you go again. There no "given facts" here, no premises that we have accepted. If you are going to make a claim like that, you must back it up with evidence if it is to be believed. I am quite aware of the idea of the "best interest of the child" and I don't see, looking at any of the guidelines I have looked at, why I should be denied.

You make assumption after assumption after assumption. I went to school to be an English teacher. Philosophy is just a hobby. Teaching is my career. I've also said that numerous times in other posts. I'm already doing what I want to do in life. Getting an MA will allow me to pursue teaching jobs that double my income. Most require just an MA, no specific one, and thus I am considering philosophy because I enjoy it.

If you were really interested in debate, you would offer unemotional arguments with evidence. You do not. Therefore, I judge that I am feeding a troll.

I'm not saying it is peaches and cream. I am saying that people who harp on Japan's problems, and they do exist, do so in a way that is completely unbalanced. These events are rarities versus the entire foreign population, yet they are often presented as happening on a regular basis to everyone. This is false.

False. This thread is about adopting from elsewhere, somewhere closer to Japan, and getting permission from State and Texas in order to do so. Then getting Japan to agree to bringing the child in as a dependent. State makes the actual home visit. As far as I can tell, Texas just needs documentation because it is where I claim residency for taxes, voting, etc. I would need to step onto US soil to complete the process, but this can be done in Guam or Hawaii. US adoption agencies need not be used, as previously stated, some countries, such as the ROC, have internal adoption agencies that are authorised by State to work with US citizens.

Have you even bothered to read the websites? They're easy to find and very clear.

I don`t recall Tsuwabuki ever saying he was interested in adopting from the US. I answered his inquiry under the assumption that he was not looking into adoption from the US, but rather from the countries he actually listed; PRC and ROC. If he is able to adopt a child, then there should be no issue with bringing the child into Japan as a dependent if it below 6. This is a fact. He also stated that he wasn`t going to go out and do this tomorrow - he says "next few years" in the first post. If it were a futile effort to even consider it, wouldn`t it be best to know this before investing time or money in the endeavor? I don`t believe it is my or your place to judge someone, particularly based on a simple question asked on a forum.

Even though it is clear that Tsuwabuki is not asking about an adoption of a child from the US, I am curious. How, may I ask, would it be negligent to allow someone who lives outside or has plans to live outside the US to adopt a child? You have mentioned discrimination issues, and culture/language issues... but how is that a different situation than bringing a child from outside the US into the US? International adoptions are far from unheard of, and I assure you the stress is the same for the child no matter where they move to. In my opinion, the fact that a child is "adopted" will make no difference in Japan. The fact that they`re not Japanese will totally outweigh this. I highly doubt that adoption itself will ever be an issue if the child is not Japanese.
In the case of a child from another Asian country, I would imagine it would be slightly LESS stressful as the chances of them fitting in with everyone would be raised. The age *limit* is 6, it`s not a set age for adoption. A child adopted at 1 to 3 is unlikely to experience much of a language/culture clash.

You seem to make a point of talking about things in a negative way. From what I can see, it looks more like you "tolerate" Japan at best.

I`m curious where you get the idea that I am some young kid in Japan for a couple years...?

The problem isn`t with pointing out that there are negative things in Japan. The problem is with pointing them out as if they`re the ONLY things in Japan. Not everyone is going to leap to discriminate - that is, in my experience, a very VERY small minority. Presenting Japan as a place where there is little other than discrimination and racism is no different than presenting it as a perfect paradise. Both are wrong.

I haven`t commented on US issues, so will not reply to this bit.

Please re-read the first post. You will see that it isn`t, which is apparently leading to a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.

That is really unfortunate, but in my experiences if you know where to look and the right path to take - it`s no harder than for a Japanese person. Adoption is hard in Japan. It has nothing to do with your race. Talk to Japanese who have tried to adopt, and you`ll find 10, 20, 30 failed attempts and fear that the guardian will change their mind up until the very day that things are transferred legally. Japan simply does not have an adoption infrastructure. Plan to spend 2 to 5 years working with different facilities and then with guardians to actually get anywhere.

I must be pushing your ego here...
Sorry didn't know Articles, statistics, websites, scholarly papers were a requirement for this forum... I'll get right to it professor..

Was that the 3 or 4 credit course? Well I'm going to have to see your report card because you obviously failed the course miserably by posting such a ridiculous idea in this thread.

How can you pass through a doorway with a head of that size. The girls must love that big brain of yours.

I don't need published works to show what others have presented in this thread besides me. This isn't a large forum, lucky for you, or I'm sure you'd have more of response.
I'm sure most have not bothered to post a reply to a ridiculous plan. I replied because it hit a nerve with me. You say your younger highschool chums are too young to have children as a couple yet you come up with this mad plan.

No names were presented until "Jackass" so here is a tounge sticking out:mtongue:


Oh my goodness do I need to site things now... goto Google and put in American College Student loan default rate ... you'll get what you need.

Whatever man... here is two thumbs up for you paying off your student loan. Good job... Good job. You are very responsible. vvvery responsible


Guidelines only get you in the door.
Anyway I've said my peace... Go for it.



Advice.. thoughts... same thing.
Don't post in a public forum asking for "thoughts" if you don't want them.. I mean this is a public forum.. right?


That is what America was built on and the "entitled" crowd you support is what is destroying it.

The world is much more than the US.. never said otherwise. But not what you make it out to be.

If you are saying that at 26, with college degree you can't QUOTE Make a living comfortably END QUOTE in the US then there really is something wrong with the world - obviously you were in Japan before the recession took hold. Maybe your idea of comfortable is different than everyone elses. Maybe there isn't any high paying ESL English teaching job in the US.

Can I quote "Mr Gorbacheve, tear down this wall" now?

Nothing wrong with working in Japan.. if its working for you absolutely fabulous and the benefits are more than just job related... no debate there.

Sorry I hadn't read all the post in this forum posted by you... sooo sorry. Just read the two where I replied.
You've proven my previous ivory tower statement is even more true now.

Trust me... I'm far from foaming at the mouth here... I'm watching a movie, glancing a novel and typing a reply with one hand to make it fair.

Glad you are making a good living there.. it is commindable.. plus if English Teaching is really want you want to do as career (a career is field of work you have chosen for life).. then more power to you.

Just try to stay away from what you are plan in this thread for adopting and adopt after you have found the other parent and/or have one on your own and making enough money to support the child. Its only fair to the child.


Oh and by the way... it was sweet of you to post a reply for Nyororin... :rheart::rheart: :rheart:

So sweet.

uhhh.. Public forum, public opinions... So yes... yes I can judge...

Oh I read the part about in the next couple of years when he spoke up and said, "this is only a plan/concept" to the poster who replied "why bring a child into a discriminating society as Japan"

Negligent in that fact that he is adopting as a single parent and taking the child into a foreign environment. In Japan is a documented fact that discrimination of children by other children And Adults because they are different by race, culture, having only one parent, or have one of the parents not be their blood parents or a combination of these.

The difference is he is an american citizen. The board would fail him based on the fact they are unable to determine if the well being of the child is being looked after in a foreign country that they have no pull in.

Yes I know its six as stated in this thread.

It wouldn't be stressful just from the dynamics of the ijime in japan.

Japanese in general do not like other Asians in general. That of course is not EVERY Japanese but it is the mindset... so you are WAY off there...


This is not the case all the time true... but it does happen and it happens ENOUGH.

Its true some "halves" do get a certain extra popularity through their life in Japan, but not the case all the time... Being different can be applauded in Japan under the right circumstances.


You see it as negative because again its not being written as 100% peaches and cream.

Now who is making assumptions?;) Yes I only tolerate my family and friends who are Japanese...

Okay I know its rude to ask a lady her age... but how old are you my dear? I really don't care, no need to post if don't feel like it.

I mean you write like a youngster so I just assumed...

Doesn't matter to me really..

Does it bother you that I think/thought that?

Oh I agree... but posting about the bringing an adopted child into Japan left me little to compliment Japan... I will make some ice cream sundae posts on Japan later... this isn't the thread for my dear.


Well at least you admit there is a small minority.. unlike Napoleon
:confused:

:) Excellant.

Well then I guess you better ask Mr. Brain to learn how to post / explain so there won't be.




Adoption in Japan: It has plenty to do with your race... and that I can tell you from personal experience. Again not in any written rules but "unofficially" it does... words straight from the administrator.

"if you know where to look and the right path" is ridiculous

There isn't a national infrastructure but the process is realtively the same.

2 to 5 years and then no guarentees is something I can agree on. 2 is really pushing it.
But for me being a foreigner ...it will never happen... aside from them writing it in blood and stamping a hanko to the fact...

I think tsuwabuki can post for himself when he is not going over his credientials, how responsible he is and his accomplishments...

but feel free to post about how wrong I am to post my opinions in a negative way.

Cheers.
:D

I guess I was understanding his message in a different way than you have. To me, it appeared he was asking whether bringing an adopted child into Japan was a possibility. Not whether he would be a good parent, or whether any country would allow him to adopt a child. I leave that judgement up to those who actually make those decisions.
If it were impossible to bring an adopted child into Japan, it would be a moot point from day one.

I can`t say I have a high opinion of the choice to raise a child as a single parent. Especially at an age where it is completely and totally possible that he will decide to have a relationship later on. A child could (99% chance) seriously complicate that.
But - if he is totally serious about not being interested in a relationship, marriage, or the problems adopted a child before that could bring... I still see it as better for a child to have one parent than NO parents. Any adopted child will be entering a "foreign" environment, even if adopted in their own country.

You can say the same thing about most other countries too... In fact, I think it would be very hard to find a country where this does not happen. Does such a perfect place even exist??
That reasoning would still apply to any non-Japanese child in Japan. Is it negligent or irresponsible to bring or have a biological child into Japan if you are not Japanese?

This may be true. I don`t know. If they judge him unsuitable to be an adoptive parent, then they do. All I know is that IF he were able to adopt, he could indeed bring the child into Japan as a dependent if they are under 6.

You seem to be taking ijime as a given. That it will DEFINITELY happen no matter what. I don`t believe that`s the case, unless we count pretty much every childhood issue as "ijime". But if we do so, every child out there is going to have been bullied as a child.

If they are advertising the fact that they are not Japanese, perhaps so. But if they are just THERE, yes - I do believe that I am correct. It`s a matter of appearance. If they look Japanese enough, then they will pass as Japanese if they have been in Japan long enough and have picked up the typical Japanese mannerisms.

No, I see it as so because you have yet to write anything that is not mostly negative. When you have written things that do not emphasis negative aspects, or do not sound like you are picking a fight (as your exchanges with Tsuwabuki sound) I may change my opinion.

Family and friends are people, individuals. Not a country or culture. I never said you hated Japanese *people*.

You apparently perceive my writing to be that of a "youngster" because it doesn`t agree with you. I went to part of high school, attended and graduated university in Japan, have been married (in Japan, to a Japanese citizen) for 8 years, have a child with lifelong disabilities, and have medical issues preventing me from having another if I don`t want the same thing to happen. Oh, and I`m not an English teacher either. Right now, I`m unemplyed because of that child with disabilities thing going on - but before that I was a translator/interpreter.

I just find it interesting that you seem to think it would be natural for someone to share your feelings toward Japan if they`d actually lived here for any significant amount of time.
How long do you consider "long enough"?

Then that is an issue with the administrator. I`ve experienced nothing but positive responses from any inquiries. We made the choice not to go ahead with adoption at this specific point simply because of issues with our biological child.

Legally, it isn`t.

Then look outside Japan. That is how long all the adoptive parents (Japanese) I have encountered have needed to wait. I`ve never heard of anyone receiving a child before 3 or 4.

I guess all those "international" couples I know who adopted a child in Japan must not be real then. I mean, they shouldn`t have been able to do it because one of them was a foreigner, right? I`m really sad to hear you`re ready to simply give up because of the response of one administrator. But it is your choice, I suppose.

No argument here.

Your foreign environment excludes the language, culture, societal and physically looking different than everyone else. That adds "a little" more stress I would say.

There are reasons "one parent" adoptions are more difficult to do.

But I agree this is NOT a death sentence for the child, in fact its a very good experience to grow up in Japan... however the good with the bad is the label being placed on a child in the imaginary situation this thread has setup.

This is true, but it is amplified CONSIDERABLY in Japan.
And yes that reason would apply to any non-Japanese child in Japan PLUS if the fact is known by society that the child is adopted and / or single parent.

Japanese place blood related parents and family history on a much higher pedistal than the western world.

Nope. Never said otherwise.

No argument... never was on this.

Given cases single parent adopted child that is not Japanese living in Japan... you couldn't paint a bigger target on him or her.


I agree with you to an extent... but eventually something gives... Gossip of children is ruthless. Physical traits... A shade darker skin , a different tint of hair .... kids find these things like no other.... things the non-japanese learns from their parents come through.


I'm sorry but most native Japanese can pick out a non-japanese asain given a long enough period of time. It doesn't matter is that Asain has lived their for 90% of their life.
There are exceptions I know.. but this is the majority of the time.


To the other side of this: I see in books, tv programs, articles, even dramas that Japan is recognizing these problems of discrimination based on these traits... so I have hope that public gets educated more and it becomes a trend and learned little good comes from this.
It will be lessened and become more like America, but just like America racism still exists.

Blood relatives and knowing the family tree will always be an issue in Asia and Japan.


Frankly this thread especially nor the other thread do not have the subject of painting Japan in a positive light. And yes I typed up to Tsuwabuki because frankly in both threads the references he made to all of USA and "westerners" was derogitory to say the least (as in post #11 of this thread) and enough in the other thread "whats is like" so even post #33 agrees with Tsuwabuki "yes i dont like america and i live there".
He has stated why he doesn't like the condition of the USA in comparison of Rural Kyoto a little too much for my taste...

So I believe negative aspects is the context of the discussion in this thread. Again I'll post some happy ones in the proper group and thread when appropriate..


I beg to differ. What is a culture or society without their people?
To me that is exactly what you wrote.

To note: The word hate never entered this thread until you posted it.. so lets be careful throwing that word around in the thread.

I think that goes hand in hand.

On a very serious note I'm am very sorry to read this. I can only try to understand the struggles you , your husband and your child face because of the medical issues.

I wish only the best for your family in having additional child if you decide to do so, or the so said discussion of adoption. This is not pitty or anything else of the sort. I live in a very similar situation as far as us having a child of our own.


You completely lost me here.
Guessing at your question: How long does it take to be Japanese? Never.

Living in Japan for 5-10-20-30-50-100 years willl never make you Japanese in the eyes of Japanese... that not 100% of the population. Favortism based on Race in all aspects of Japanese society exist, but even though the norm there are exception: heck look at the president of Nissan Motors. But that is the norm and that is the majority of public opinion. I'm speaking only of popular opinion. Friends and stranger will most likely discard this opinion only to save face.


Religion, if I may change the subject, is the only exception I've seen that transends all this with the Japanese if you are not Japanese. (But I could be wrong there, just from what I've seen)

Administrator: Possibly. The fact that we now currently reside outside of Japan, despite my wife's citizenship may have bearing, despite the option of moving back to Japan. My employer is outside of Japan which also may have bearing.

I got the same message "legally it isn't" but the side bar I spoke of was telling us the final decision would weigh heavily against you because of said circumstances... basically "we can try but the years waisted trying would be spent better outside of Japan"

<Edited out>

Food for thought indeed. This ridiculous thread has bore fruit.
Thank you for that.

I definitely agree with this - If a qualified two parent home is available, it should definitely receive priority. A child left parentless in the system seems a lost worse than being raised by a decent single parent though.

Thank you, I am very glad to hear this. I believe that you really have to weigh things... Which would be better in the long run for a child - a loving parent but a perhaps less than ideal outside environment, or being parentless in a situation close to emotional neglect in many cases (the poorer the country, the less they dedicate to care of orphans...)
Having seen children coming from orphanages in Asia having absolutely no social skills and still being close to an infant in terms of language even at 5 or 6... I find it very hard to think that the child would have a better life if left in that sort of system.

If you`re Japanese, yes. But those rules hardly apply if you are not.

Watch a Japanese kid in Japanese school. The exact same thing happens, I assure you. Bullying is a huge problem, but it is certainly not limited to those with obvious differences.
Either way, there are kids who are half/non-Japanese who make it through school experiencing no "extra" bullying based on race or nationality. You`re right that it makes things easier for someone looking to bully, but it really depends on a lot more than that.

Most of China/Taiwan and Korea can pass with absolutely no problem IF they`ve been raised in Japan. If they haven`t, well, it`s not hard at all to tell for pretty much anyone. We know quite a few families in Japan from Taiwan whose children (going by a Japanese name) have zero problems and no one would ever know they weren`t Japanese if they didn`t tell. There are enough Japanese with "non-typical" Japanese features that even if there was something that set them apart their language skill and mannerisms would blot it out.
I definitely agree though when it comes to southern Asia, etc.

Things will take time, but it is gradually improving. I too hope that public opinions change toward the better.

I can`t say I`d make the choice to live in America at this point, but, on the other hand, I don`t feel I`m qualified to make many statements about the current state of affairs there. It`s been a very long time since I lived outside of Japan and we have no plans to leave the country. I don`t know the condition of the US these days, so really cannot comment on it.

I`ll take your word for it, as you seem like a decent and intelligent person when not making snide comments to Tsuwabuki.

There are always exceptions. A lot of people (trolling) will come in here saying they can`t stand Japan - except for their spouse and a hand picked selection of friends who "aren`t like everyone else". I`m not saying this is the case with you, but I believe it`s possible to like/love someone even if you have an extremely negative view of the country they live in/are from. I`m sure that those on here who say they hate the US, etc etc would be hard pressed to say they hated every individual there. (That is where the hate thing came from, I apologize as it wasn`t specifically directed toward you or describing what I thought you felt, etc.)

So anyone out there close in age or in length of experience with Japan is going to naturally agree with you about it?
......
People are all different, you know...

Thank you, honestly, for the kind words. I wish you luck too, and that you and your family stay healthy and happy.

That isn`t what I was asking. You said "I understand you have beer glasses on now being young and in Japan now... , one day you will understand if you continue to live in Japan. "
I was asking how long would be long enough, in your opinion, to "understand" - as you put it. I`ve lived in Japan quite some time so I find it sort of hard to imagine my feelings/opinions are going to change in any drastic way after a certain point.

I haven`t had any experiences with religion in Japan, so I really don`t know if this is the case. We only do the typical religious stuff, and as far as religion itself goes fall into the "normal" Japanese cross between Buddhism, Shintoism, and nothing at all.

That may be the case. Those I know who successfully adopted inside Japan were here for the long haul, presumably for the rest of their lives. I do think they obtained UK and US citizenship for the children without difficulty though.
Japan isn`t too keen on adopting OUT of Japan. Inside Japan, I don`t think that race makes much difference... And may even go in your favor if the child is mixed race. (At least that is what I have been told in all our inquiries.)

Now that I know a bit more, I will agree. Some countries are happy to adopt their kids out, some refuse. Japan lies very very close to the refusal line. There may be no official policy against it, but you`re definitely going to have a LOT of trouble.
I have heard that it`s easiest for Japanese/foreign couples outside Japan to adopt a child from Korea. Whether that is true, I don`t really know... Second, third, etc, hand info.

Good luck to you, and I mean it honestly. I have heard (again, second or third hand information) that it is somewhat easier to find a Japanese/part-Japanese child for adoption in Hawaii.
Is there no possibility of adopting a child who is not of Japanese heritage?

I'm actually on vacation, in Taipei, so I spent time today doing touristy things. That being said, obviously there is a lot to go through that has been posted, and I can't possibly reply to it all bit by bit, but I'll try to hit the highlights.

Nyororin is correct. This is precisely what I was asking. It would indeed be a moot point since I have no reason to leave Japan in the forseeable future. Forseeable being at least the next five to ten years.

Actually, I haven't had a relationship in nearly four years. I've dated a few times, both in and outside of Japan, and I'll be frank: my heart isn't in it. I really don't see that changing. I agree that my preference would be to have a partner in raising a child, and I think that it does indeed make it easier. If I wait, how long should I wait? What if at 35 I still feel the same way? Should I put off adopting then? 40? Where do you draw the line? These are rhetorical questions. Frankly, I don't think any one really knows the answer to that.

This is all I wanted to know. The rest, as I said, will be up to State, the adoption agency, or a combination. No one here is going to be able to give me advice on what exactly they're going to tell me. Nor was it my question.

I concur. The whole point of this is because, while yes, I do want a child (even if I don't want the spouse), I also want to be beneficial to the child. If a more stable environment is in competition with me, then I would be selfish if I did not want the child to go to that environment.

Derogatory? I've clearly stated that I'm quite proud of America. Not as proud at the moment as I could be, of course, but there's always room for improvement. Nor was I bashing westerners in general. Nor, for that matter, was I idolising the Japanese. Japan has idiots, and it has problems. Not a society on Earth that doesn't, but this constant portrayal of Japan as being problem-ridden where non-Japanese are accosted on a daily basis across the country as if Japan were some sort of anti-Foriegner police state need to stop. It just isn't true.

And you've been extremely condescending. I treat everyone like my intellectual equal, at least at the beginning. When I approach a discourse with an academic mindset, it is because I respect the person on the other side, as long as they meet me with the same mindset. You have repeatedly abused this by claiming you need not engage in a way that follows the rules of debate. Instead you make snide little witticisms intended to provoke. A perfect example is:

I am well aware of the definition of the word career. And since I said I went to college to be an English teacher, that would imply that, yes, I do intend to make it my career. I have every intention of teaching, at some level, in some subject area, for the rest of my life. Most likely, it will be English. It, perhaps, might be philosophy. But then... you already knew that, you were just trying to provoke a response, and I've failed to disappoint.

And you go on to say I made comments I never made. Not only the very essence of the first post, but also here:

I didn't say this. I said that I was in a better financial position than they are, and that they were younger than I now am, yet they still chose to have children. I never said they were too young to have children.

When you sprinkle your counter-points with inaccurate information and intentionally inflammatory comments how can you expect to be taken seriously?

And if I had meant advice, I would have said advice. I said thoughts and I meant thoughts. You had your say, you issued your thoughts, don't feel hurt that I find them flawed and ignore them.

My god man.. enjoy the sites and put the laptop away then... the forum can wait.
I don't want to be the cause of ruining your trip.



You are welcome to go back through all my posts and try to find where I say "Japan is problem-ridden where non-Japanese are "accosted" on a daily basis. Never said accosted.

My words clearly say that foreigners will always be treated by foreigners by Japanese in Japan by Japanese who simply do not know them. This treatment varies from person to person but I agree it is not "accosting" / agressive or challenging. That is simpy not the Japanese way (again in general).

The point is that Foreigners will have the initial "special treatment" and will have to continually prove themselves in their career and any non-short term social interaction.

This behaviour is not always deliberate either... it is simply a lack of knowledge by the other party. A recent personal example My personal favorite is eating in a public setting (at the same table with strangers) and have them look at in you in awe as you use chopsticks. The will speak right in front you to the other person beside them and say "wow he can use chopsticks very well... I'm surprised"... mind you I wasn't pigging out...
Nothing was said, and it might of been embarrising if I struck up a conversation, usually to best let it go and move on. But if you are constantly hit with these little things on a daily basis, depending upon the person and personality ... it grows on you - whether it is of having no intention or good-intentions.

I don't expect this to change and for it to never happen in for Japan to not to be Japan. All I was saying in the other thread is to expect these eventual displeasantries while being a foreigner in Japan.

To be fair I suppose special treatment should have been defined to not come across as accosting, but the examples already presented in the thread were non-accosting examples.. except when you compared it to being accosted by the KKK and the Hiroshima memorial.

My points speak from themselves ... I sorry you don't like the way they are presented.
The are obviously taken seriously for this thread to go on this long.



Next time I'll push the Quote with Thoughts button vs the Quote with Advice button then.
My mistake.

No hard feelings at all. You are welcome, of course, to ignore them all.

Nyororin,

Thank you much for you thoughts / advice.
Best and continued well being to you and your family.

I only respond in the morning and at night when I am in my hotel anyhow.

This is exactly the type of behavior that is not welcome in an academic discourse. Just drop the witticisms, they are not welcome.

No, but the original posters that you agreed with did say this. They talked about incidents with employers, administrators, and police. I don't just mean accost in the sense of actual assault and battery. I mean harassed.

And all I ever said was how is this an issue? I've said repeatedly that this doesn't become a problem, but you try to argue that is.

And how is this any different from the expectations anywhere else in this world? If someone isn't improving, they don't get promoted. That's pretty simple.

This is where you and I differ. This rarely happens, but when it does, it is usually directed at me not said around me. In the beginning, I had coworkers tell me they were amazed by my ability to use chopsticks. I looked at them like they were crazy until they finally asked about my facial expression. I said I had been using chopsticks since a small child, asian food is very common in American kitchens, and that it makes about as much sense as an American being surprised the Japanese can use forks, which is to say, no sense at all. I've never been asked about it by a coworker again. I didn't do it in a hostile or defensive manner, in fact, if I recall, I was quite "cheerfully perplexed" by their comments, but it certainly got the message across clearly enough.

In the rare instances where people talk about me as if I am not there, I do strike up a conversation and tell the offending parties that I am quite capable of this or that action, and it's rude to talk about people as if they're not there. In Japanese, of course. Rarely is this adults though. My kids sometimes forget I speak Japanese, and I remind them, with a verbal tap, that this is not the case, and they're not just in my classroom to learn English, but also to become better global citizens. However, again, these situations are very rare.

As long as you also admit this is not a regular occurrence that must be dealt with over and over on a daily basis, as it sounds like right now you are saying.

They were? As I said, I seem to recall instances, and I can go back and find them, where the issues I had were with truly horrendous actions, like the comment about constantly being pulled over by the police. That's maybe not physically attacking someone, but it is clearly harassment.

No points speak for themselves when we disagree. If we agreed, then yes, perhaps they would.

And the thread has gone on because I've never been able to choose my battles wisely, definitely one of my flaws. Now I do it with words, but there was a time I would meet bullies, after just so much bullying, by breaking their noses so they would never harass me again. I never did get around to being able to see if that whole "ignoring" thing actually worked.

Words matter. They are different words because they have different meanings. Don't be so glib, especially in a written environment where other factors, such as tone, can not so easily be communicated. If I had wanted advice, I would have asked for it. There is no other way to say that.

So, what happened, OP? Did you adopt a child in the end?