Obama vs. McCain

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

Fair enough I messed up. But whatever, my point still stands which is why I avoided quoting you directly.

BTW- Stop taking things so personally.

Are we really gonna have this conversation again? I can't really be bothered to explain your ego problem! So, whatever!!!

[koaku]

looool

Im french, Im black, and i can compare U.S and France..

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Paul11

Actually, I did mention the suspicous circumstances: SEE THE REZCO TRIAL.

So you are denouncing this presidential candidate because he bought a house from Tony Rezco?

Did Barrack Obama admit working with him to buy a house was a mistake?

YES.

Has Barrack Obama been cleared of any other connections with Tony Rezco?

YES.

For Christ's sake, I know people in my past I have dealt with that have committed some ugly crimes. I am glad that in my work people don't judge me by the actions of my real-estate agent.

Originally Posted by Paul11

His denunciations of the church are spurious and disingenuous. He can't have a personal friend and mentor for 20 years, sit in that person's church for 20 years, and say, "I never heard any of that."

In a debate Hillary Clinton asked him to denounce the words of Reverand Wright. With no doubt, gap, suspiscion or gray area, he did just that.

He is completely separated from that church and that pastor. He will never darken that door again. You will never see a picture of Obama and Reverend Wright again. Ever. What more do you need?

Disingenious? Do you know what "denounce" means?

Originally Posted by Paul11

Socialism is not equal to communism. No one said it was. that doesn't make it ok. Not all Americans confuse socialism with communism. Americas police and fire are not a socialist system.

Then what are they?

We have 911 in America.

Free: Police.

Free: Fire

EXPENSIVE: Ambulances and Medical.

In other countries we can get the ambulances and medical care at the same price as the police and fire departments.

So why not in America?

Originally Posted by Paul11

You won't delve into his support of people who want to see us ruined, our enemies. Why not?

I am facinated. Tell me who Barrack Obama supports that is anti-America. Who is striving for him to be president that wants to see the breakdown of America? If I am ignoring them it is because I don't know who they are.

Who I do know are the CEOs at all the gas companies that are getting MILLIONS in bonuses because a company like EXXON made 36 BILLION DOLLARS in PROFIT in the first THREE MONTHS of 2008.

What also happened during that time?

The price of gasoline went up over 250%.

Originally Posted by Paul11

Yes other nations have socialized health care. And it usually stinks. Limited facilities in which people have to wait forever for treatment. the costs are related to inability for health insurers to compete and lawsuits. socialized medicine is not the answer. You want the government, which botches evertything, to control your health care?

Paul, wait until you need treatment in America. I am guessing you have never actually had to go through a medical situation.

I have been insured in Japan and insured in America. In Japan it was basically free for me. In America I now pay 270 dollars a month. Pound for pound, I'd take the japanese system any day.

With the same problems I would pay 5 dollars a month in Japan for medicine I pay well over 5 dollars a day for here in America.

Originally Posted by Paul11

You obviously know nothing about the housing crisis, which is not a crisis. We never dipped into recession. The fear mongers in the liberal media got your goat and you believed it. Most houses lost were not homes. they were houses bought as investments by people who over-reached. they are also the result of people using exotic loan plans to buy houses they could not afford. they signed paper-work that said the mortgage will rise in two to three years. They failed to refinance before the mortgage changes. It was greed, pure and simple.

You tell the over one million Americans that have lost thier homes due to the poor promotion of ARMs that turned south and 800 dollar mortgages suddenly turned into 1600 dollar mortgages that their plight isn't real. These are high-end investors going into ARMs. These are low-income folks trying to get ahead, and got duped by the ARM system.

Originally Posted by Paul11

You obviously don't own a house in california.

You obviously get your news from terrible sources.

No, I don't live in California. How that matters, I do not know.

And if life and personal experience is a bad news source, then I hope you can point me out to a better one.

Originally Posted by Paul11

Yet again you mention Obama's Change. never said what the change is going to be. He is an ultra left socialist, which is not what the U.S. is about.

Get our boys and girls out of Iraq and Afghanistan: CHANGE

Spend money on rebuilding AMERICA instead of wasting money in Iraq: CHANGE

Become less dependant on foreign oil, instead of begging OPEC leaders to make more : CHANGE

If the US was flying high socially, economically, internationally, then I would say "Hey, Paul, you are right." The fact that we are in the lowest point in a long time in all those areas...the areas that affect Americans everyday lives...then I feel like a radical change is needed.

Originally Posted by Paul11

His leftie supporters like you usually attempt to pretend you are on moral high ground and make dispariging little comments at me in your defense of Obama. Your eyes are closed very tight indeed.

Never have I pretended to be on a moral high ground. To be honest, I am on a financial low ground, very much thanks to our president right now.

As John McCain admits, economics is not his strong-point. I need a President who can represent ME. A middle-class American. I don't need a president that is more worried about building schools 15000 miles away in Iraq when my kid's school just lost its music program and fired its librarian.

[Paul11]

Bwa hah hah.
You believe a politician just because he used the word denounce?

Everyone gets health care in the US. Even if they don't have health insurance. Have you seen the signs in hospitals. I have seen many people die and seen many many people sent to the hospital in the ambulance. The system is amazing. When in Japan the doctors couldn't even diagnose a case of tonsiltius.


Yes, I do judge people by thier past crimes and the company they keep. It says a lot about an individual.

McCain has shown many times a strong ability to reach across party lines. Obama has never ever done anyhting out of step with the extreme liberal arm of the Democrat party. He has the done nothing in Washington D.C. and is considered the most liberal momber of congress.

Barak will never solve the energy crisis because he is against drilling, against nuclear energy, against everything except making everything prohiitively expensive, which crushes the working class. Or over regulating things, which liberals tend to do (just look at thier primary rules) which tends to destroy economies.

I understand your hope for change, but it's not in a smooth-talking do nothing Obama who's personal friends are criminals and terrorists (yep, home grown leftie convicted ones about whom he said, "I didn't know he did that." Bull pucky.)


P.s. I mention California because it was the biggest housing bubble and the center of the housing crisis. People werern't really duped. All these people were going for exotic loans as a way to buy a house they really couldn't afford. Soem didn't read the fine print or understand the deal? Maybe, that's why you don't sign a contract for something so expensive if you don't understand what you're doing.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Ronin4hire

I really don't understand it when people highlight the negative aspects of America in order to bolster their own national pride.

It seems so hypocritical... they exaggerate one to exaggerate the other.

If I highlight the negatives of any country other than my own it's because I have something to say on it regarding MY principles.

Oh trust me, there are very few countries that you can exaggerate about at all.
Since this is an American election however, there will of course be comparisons made to ones own principles but also the facts. If those facts are from other countries, why can't they be used?
I actually thought health insurance was a necessity in America but obviously if the system is flawed and it is better in France, I don't see why comparing the two is a problem.
In England, Petrol is at an all time repugnant high.
Just two years ago I could get around 13 litres for £10. Now i'm getting approximately 7 litres! The fact that tax on fuel is at 75% contributes to the enormous price but then since we are dependant on the tax, there's little that can be done about it. Also the idiot companies like BP (British Petroleum), continue to sell fuel at over inflated prices, just to keep their profit margins similary over inflated. The government does nothing about that either since it isn't in their interest.
Anyway, I have no problem with comparing the shit stains of my country to anywhere else and I will always be willing to highlight them. I don't think anyone else should have a problem with doing the same.
Also, when someone compares the facts between two countries on this forum, I don't think they are doing it out of arrogance but just to make information available to the people who are interested.

[koaku]

Originally Posted by Paul11

Bwa hah hah.
You believe a politician just because he used the word denounce?

Everyone gets health care in the US. Even if they don't have health insurance. Have you seen the signs in hospitals. I have seen many people die and seen many many people sent to the hospital in the ambulance. The system is amazing. When in Japan the doctors couldn't even diagnose a case of tonsiltius.


Yes, I do judge people by thier past crimes and the company they keep. It says a lot about an individual.

McCain has shown many times a strong ability to reach across party lines. Obama has never ever done anyhting out of step with the extreme liberal arm of the Democrat party. He has the done nothing in Washington D.C. and is considered the most liberal momber of congress.

Barak will never solve the energy crisis because he is against drilling, against nuclear energy, against everything except making everything prohiitively expensive, which crushes the working class. Or over regulating things, which liberals tend to do (just look at thier primary rules) which tends to destroy economies.

.

Can U explain?

I'll tell you something .. There is a difference btw believing in someone and believing someone.

Believing that Obama or Mc Cain will change everything its being naive, belief in Obama or Mc Cain to change things its not being utopian but optimistic.

Dont believe the press or the media,they are manipulates public opinion, Use your instinct. This election its like with friends, your not waiting necessarily them to proof their friendship for their trust, but you do trust your instincts and your capacity for judgement. You can say what you want today, If in November Mc Cain wins and that after one or two years nothing changes, Mc Cain has betrayed your confidence and you will probably think .. " I would certainly vote for Obama, it will not have been worse "and vice versa for Obama ..

Im not saying that we should not have confidence in politics, but we must learn to form an opinion that outside what the media (TV, newspapers, political) can tell us, because if you look deeply :
-They are people who are in power
-those who work with them
And the rest..The Rest are sheep who think only for their small person and their small comfort, which merely the minimum when it could have more ... and always in The Rest... there is also another category of person who uses their brains to think and not to manipulate stupidly by the rest of the population ..

[Paul11]

I can explain. For example, recently, McCain co-authored an immigration bill with arch-liberal Senator Ted Kennedy in which illegal immigrants already in the states would effectively be given amnesty. This was in direct opposition to what most Republicans (McCain's party) and conservative supporters wanted. It was ultimatley shot down. But it was a huge hand across the party divide.
In contrast, you can research Obama's voting record since he was a local politician in Chicago (huge mob town) through his career in Washingto D.C. His votes never waver from left wing of Democrat party. He also is reletively inexperienced and has not really done anything. He's a real good talker.

I don't agree with some of McCains policies, but if you look back as far as you can you will notice every election is about the lesser of two evils. I think Obama will be hugely damaging to our republic. McCain less so.

[ivi0nk3y]

Originally Posted by Paul11

I can explain. For example, recently, McCain co-authored an immigration bill with arch-liberal Senator Ted Kennedy in which illegal immigrants already in the states would effectively be given amnesty. This was in direct opposition to what most Republicans (McCain's party) and conservative supporters wanted. It was ultimatley shot down. But it was a huge hand across the party divide.
In contrast, you can research Obama's voting record since he was a local politician in Chicago (huge mob town) through his career in Washingto D.C. His votes never waver from left wing of Democrat party. He also is reletively inexperienced and has not really done anything. He's a real good talker.

I don't agree with some of McCains policies, but if you look back as far as you can you will notice every election is about the lesser of two evils. I think Obama will be hugely damaging to our republic. McCain less so.

Do you actually think he didn't have the election in mind when he wanted such a bill passed? The fact his advisors or his own wisdom told him that trying to pass such a bill would give him some kudos in the majority of voters eyes?

[Paul11]

Not really. Democrats and Republicans, according to several major polls, do not want amnesty. The vast majority of voters want the problem taken care of. People in America generally have no problem with immigration, but feel illegal immigration is taking it's cultural and economic toll.

It harmed him in voters eyes and and he afterward apologized and said he now understands what voters want. This did not help him.

[koaku]

Ok...BUT..

See? lol once again you doin' the same mistakes lol ..

Obama would never be there if he was so bad ..

Whether you've already made your choice is one thing, but we must remain objective.

Obama is not so bad, like Mc Cain , I think they both want to demarcated in their own political troops (Demo&Rep)