Conspiracy Theories: is there any truth in it?

[TheCrimson]

Originally Posted by MMM

Sometimes.

exactly, sometimes. i never meant believe every conspiracy theory out there, i just mean. some can be true. that's just what i think.

[promontorium]

your title suggests conspiracy theories, but Zeigeist isn't a conspiracy theory movie (well the 9/11 part is). For the most part it's about money.

I watched it. It promotes the destruction of America through calculated means (and only denounces America and no other nation...hmmm) and promotes a purely Communist society in its stead. It follows the basic tenants of Karl Marx,

1. No individuality, no religion
2. No money to imbalance the equality
3. No philosophy of "progression" or technological advancement.
4. Every person will do their part, but must above all believe in what they do.
5. The people are the government, the government are the people, and all are one.

The movie makes its case, repeatedly denouncing technological advancements, denouncing religion, denouncing individuality. It claims we are nothing more than stardust and should be treated as such. The movie says money is inherently evil, yet asks for monetary support for the "Venus Project". Even when it denounces technology, it ignores it own hypocrisy about creating a society entirely dependent on technology.

It ultimately removes all credit for itself, by spending two hours denouncing everything American, asking people to literally destroy America, calling America lying, evil, and hurtful to mankind, yet almost entirely relies on American inventions, American inovation, American money to fund it's proposed utopia.

I agree with most of the "facts" in the movie. The money system is silly. But its conclusions I cannot agree with. Whoever made the movie took a leap into the stratosphere, they spend most of the movie denouncing one thing, and the rest promoting the other, but never addresses the reasoning. Only stating things that are opinion as fact, to act as a "logic" bridge between the movies' hatred and love.

I'll give you an example, declaring money to be bad for people, because America's current system uses debt. That is not logic. I can argue that debt (also known as investment in most cases, especially in these contexts) is the driving force for all of humans greatest achievements. Turning it completely on the movie itself, it requires vast amounts of "debt" (investment) to create this utopia it promotes. It will give nothing in return for years (accruing debt) until it is complete. But you would say "Venus Project" would be worth the investment. Very good, now you understand why debt isn't evil.

[YoruKage]

I've always thought Conspiracies were just stories built off and exaggerated from truths... so, the truth is there, deep, hidden. And it's not always what we wanna hear. Oh, well. That's the way the Universe is.

[TheCrimson]

Originally Posted by promontorium

your title suggests conspiracy theories, but Zeigeist isn't a conspiracy theory movie (well the 9/11 part is). For the most part it's about money....................

i never said Zeitgeist was a conspiracy. i believe it. its just people here said it was conspiracy theory >>

and as for your points against Zeitgeist. i got some for ya.

1. Religion is just a form of control. if you look into history - say to the civilization of Sumeria (aka Babylonia), they had stories similar to ones in the bible, in the Qur'an, w/e. the point is. religion today just steals all those stories, twists it in order to benefit the religion, so they can control more people. i myself was born into a muslim family. i think its all ballsacks.
2. individuality would exist, especially if we didnt have to work to pay off someone's debt. imagine what we can do with our minds. we can be more creative, create new things, etc.
3. money creates imbalance, and Zeitgeist suggests that its evil. of course its evil. think about it. if money doesnt exist, no one would be poor, no one would be stealing because they would have all they need, and no one would die of hunger. and we dont need to kill the earth cos we wont need gasoline.
4. it didnt want to stop technological progression. wtf? it wants us to explore our capabilities, using other forms of energy other than gasoline.
5. your 4th and 5th point. i dont understand. how could that be bad?

the movie does NOT denounce technology. it does however denounce religion. and it certainly does not denounce individuality.

and Venus project was asking for money? O_o
i must've missed it.
but i dont think money would be needed for it if money didnt exist.
even if its not the Venus Project, why cant we go back to the times where we all trade instead of use this piece of paper for everything, why does pieces of paper determine what we are as a person? (i'm not the richest out there, i'm actually just scraping by, and its really sad to see the giant gap between the rich and the poor)

look at a country like say, indonesia. where i come from. the gap between the rich and the poor if just so fracking ridiculous. its really sad.

[MMM]

As long as man places value on certain things over others, money will exist. That's how it always has been. As society progresses so does trade. Money is just a way to say "Instead of giving you all my pelts for all your fish NOW, I can get some of your fish now, and some of it later."

Money isn't the problem, it's human nature.

[TheCrimson]

Originally Posted by MMM

As long as man places value on certain things over others, money will exist. That's how it always has been. As society progresses so does trade. Money is just a way to say "Instead of giving you all my pelts for all your fish NOW, I can get some of your fish now, and some of it later."

Money isn't the problem, it's human nature.

human nature doesnt really exist. its really human behaviour. its changed overtime, the way we do things, the way we see things, and our reactions to things change, depending on what we're made to believe by those we know as "authority"

[Hyakushi]

There are some theorys that seem believable but like the name it is only a "theory" just like the theory of gravity, it just has to have some evidence and logic behind it to make it real.

The president being a lizard is too far off to be believable but him planning the 9/11 to become a war time pres doesn't seem too far off.

The Marilyn Monroe conspiracy theory is believeable too as well as the CIA/LSD conspiracy. I heard another about Osama B. but I never tried reasearching it.

Many people lie about facts on the internet or they have been altered like Wikipedia, so you need to find some hard booked evidence. Like the JFK files that became visible to the public there will be missing pages and loop holes.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by TheCrimson

human nature doesnt really exist. its really human behaviour. its changed overtime, the way we do things, the way we see things, and our reactions to things change, depending on what we're made to believe by those we know as "authority"

Find a time when man did not place a value on things, and I will show you a society without money.

Of course human nature exists. Of course our behavior has changed as society has evolved, but human beings are not blank hard drives upon birth. There are needs and desires ingrained. That is human nature.

[Hyakushi]

Originally Posted by MMM

Find a time when man did not place a value on things, and I will show you a society without money.

<_< >_> Cave man era all they did was survive but nowdays everything must have a value to people, they must always have a reason for something which just ends up as nothing in the end.

[TheCrimson]

Originally Posted by Hyakushi

<_< >_> Cave man era all they did was survive but nowdays everything must have a value to people, they must always have a reason for something which just ends up as nothing in the end.

EXACTLY!

=D