What's wrong with Americans?

[minimin]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

mmmmmmmmmm

On June 28, 2004, George Bush commemorated the U.N. Day to Support Torture Victims and vowed that the U.S. "will investigate and prosecute all acts of torture and undertake to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment in all territory under our jurisdiction." In doing so, he specifically cited the U.S.'s binding obligation under the Convention to do so (h/t leftydem):

To help fulfill this commitment, the United States has joined 135 other nations in ratifying the Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. America stands against and will not tolerate torture. We will investigate and prosecute all acts of torture and undertake to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment in all territory under our jurisdiction. American personnel are required to comply with all U.S. laws, including the United States Constitution, Federal statutes, including statutes prohibiting torture, and our treaty obligations with respect to the treatment of all detainees. . . .

The United States also remains steadfastly committed to upholding the Geneva Conventions, which have been the bedrock of protection in armed conflict for more than 50 years. . . . [W]e will not compromise the rule of law or the values and principles that make us strong. Torture is wrong no matter where it occurs, and the United States will continue to lead the fight to eliminate it everywhere.

If George Bush, citing our obligations under the Convention Against Torture and the Geneva Conventions, can publicly vow that "we will investigate and prosecute all acts of torture."

if this doesnt fulfill your needs I surely can't help you there.

and to your question about the bomb crap, if someone doesn't want to give information, torture wont make them they'll simply suffer(and if they give in and say they did it, they did it so the pain would stop). Sure it has happened before. but I dont think talking here will change a damn thing, as said before internet arguing is so ridiculous so Im done bye-bye.

[skitty]

So you're saying that in the biggest melting pot in the states where the so called bad part of our society is high that many ppl showed the same characteristics (or human s showing human nature) towards the aimless wandering robots.wile alot more stood along side and watched or ignored the robots (or human s showing human nature)that even tough we are all together some of us aren't good and some of us aren't bad. or something eles intirely.

[noodle]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

Is Iran's Jewish community really thriving? They are considered "Dhimmies", and enjoy no civil rights. They are not allowed to build new synagogues, they are not allowed to vote. They are not allowed to speak, pray, or hold hands in public. They are outsiders and serfs, and are only allowed to exist if they accept these conditions and pay a heavy tax to the government. The penalty for disobeying any of these prohibitions is death. They are not thriving, they are merely enduring, as they always have.

Dude, that is just ridiculous!!! I know this isnt the thread for it, and we're not supposed to speak about it, but what you just wrote here is a joke!

Having read a lot about Iran and Iraq, I can safely tell you that since the Islamic revolution and the Khomeini protection in Iran, Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them having Hebrew schools. There is a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles. All of this for a comunity of around 25,000 in the country!

As for the last part, "always have", when did always start for you? People seem to forget that the middle east was a peaceful place for centuries until the west (English and French mainly) came and disturbed the peace. In Iraq, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived happily together for centuries.

[solemnclockwork]

Originally Posted by noodle

Dude, that is just ridiculous!!! I know this isnt the thread for it, and we're not supposed to speak about it, but what you just wrote here is a joke!

Having read a lot about Iran and Iraq, I can safely tell you that since the Islamic revolution and the Khomeini protection in Iran, Tehran has 11 functioning synagogues, many of them having Hebrew schools. There is a Jewish hospital, an old-age home and a cemetery. There is a Jewish representative in the Iranian parliament. There is a Jewish library with 20,000 titles. All of this for a comunity of around 25,000 in the country!

As for the last part, "always have", when did always start for you? People seem to forget that the middle east was a peaceful place for centuries until the west (English and French mainly) came and disturbed the peace. In Iraq, Muslims, Christians and Jews lived happily together for centuries.

The Jews suffer from official inferior status under Iranian Law and are not protected by police or the courts. The amount of financial compensation a Jew can receive from a Muslim in case of murder or accidental death of a relative is equal to one-eighth of that which would be paid if the victim was a Muslim.

In practice this means that a life of a Jew in Iran has very little value. In addition, since Iranian courts routinely refuse to accept the testimony of a Jew against a Muslim, most cases of this sort are not even prosecuted and the police do not even investigate such claims. As a result of their legally inferior status, Jews find themselves outside the protection of the courts and police. This is not simply a perception on their part, but rather, sadly, a harsh reality. In none of the cases of the murder of Jews in Iran has a perpetrator ever been found, much less prosecuted.

Jews are excluded from most government positions. Virtually all government entities (most sectors in Iran are government-owned) have a "Muslim only" policy and they print this requirement in their job notices in newspapers. This formal exclusion of Jews from large areas of employment is badly damaging to the Jews.

Most private companies, thanks to the anti-Semitic media campaign in Iran, do not hire Jews either. Most Jews are forced into self-employment, but due to general public prejudice, few buy anything from them. The US State Department Religious Freedom Report of 2001 confirms that Jewish businesses have been targets of vandalism and boycotts.

However, the most widely publicized example of the Islamic Regime views on the Holocaust came again from Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei, who in March 2001, denied the Holocaust and called the survivors of the death camps "a bunch of hooligans who emigrated to Palestine."

Iran has also become the world headquarters for the publication of a constant stream of European and American revisionist historians who have denied the existence of the Holocaust. Primary among these are the works of Roger Garaudy, a French revisionist to Shia Islam. Garaudy's books have been widely translated and distributed in Iran, in part not by the fundamentalists, but rather by the so-called reform circles.

While the Islamic Republic does not guarantee the right of free speech and protest to any of its citizens, the situation, because of the Islamic Law, is considerably worse for the Jews. If an Iranian Muslim criticizes the Islamic Republic, he himself can be punished; if a Jew does it, under the laws of the Islamic Republic his actions may legally affect the well being of the entire Jewish community.

Do I have to say anymore about Iran?

[noodle]

Do you mind giving me the source of this article? Because I can easily go find an article that is of the exact oposite of what you just pasted!

Like, I can easily paste this! And come to the conclusion that Jews that have left Iran are overly negative about the country, whereas the Jews left in Iran arn't particularly upset or whatever!

Testimony from Jews who have left Iran suggests more serious problems than those cited by Jews inside the country. In written testimony to a congressional subcommittee in February 1996, an Iranian Jew complained of being imprisoned for two years on trumped-up charges of spying for Israel. He also said his arrest was preceded by harassment at work and pressure to convert to Islam. Inside Iran, Jews say that they frequently receive alarmed telephone calls and letters from relatives in the United States concerned about their well-being, but that they themselves do not feel physically endangered. Their major complaint is the inability to visit family in Israel, and what they say is inadequate funding for Hebrew schools, which are administered by the Iranian Ministry of Education.

''Everywhere in the world there are people who don't like Jews. In England, they draw swastikas on Jewish graves. I don't think that Iran is more dangerous for Jews than other places.''

[solemnclockwork]

Originally Posted by noodle

Do you mind giving me the source of this article? Because I can easily go find an article that is of the exact oposite of what you just pasted!

Like, I can easily paste this! And come to the conclusion that Jews that have left Iran are overly negative about the country, whereas the Jews left in Iran arn't particularly upset or whatever!

Testimony from Jews who have left Iran suggests more serious problems than those cited by Jews inside the country. In written testimony to a congressional subcommittee in February 1996, an Iranian Jew complained of being imprisoned for two years on trumped-up charges of spying for Israel. He also said his arrest was preceded by harassment at work and pressure to convert to Islam. Inside Iran, Jews say that they frequently receive alarmed telephone calls and letters from relatives in the United States concerned about their well-being, but that they themselves do not feel physically endangered. Their major complaint is the inability to visit family in Israel, and what they say is inadequate funding for Hebrew schools, which are administered by the Iranian Ministry of Education.

''Everywhere in the world there are people who don't like Jews. In England, they draw swastikas on Jewish graves. I don't think that Iran is more dangerous for Jews than other places.''

Do you honestly think that Jews would be ok in an country that the leaders want to wipe Israel of the map, and continuous supports Terrorism to kill Jews and also supports t.v. shows calling them pigs? That potentially seeks an Nuclear bomb to destroy Israel. You seriously find nothing wrong with that? I can't give you an copy paste as that information comes from memory but I will point you to articles that back up what I"m saying (oh by the way a LOT of that was reported in the news so it should be common nowledge.)

there's a difference in having the people put demeaning marks on a grave and having the government do it.

Religious minorities were barred from election to a representative body, except for the five Majles seats reserved for recognized religious minorities (two for the Armenian Christians, and one each for the Assyrian Christians, Jews and Zoroastrians), and from holding senior government or military positions, but they were allowed to vote. Although the constitution mandates an Islamic army, members of religious minorities served in the military, although non-Muslim promotions were limited by a military restriction against non-Muslims commanding Muslims. Reportedly non-Muslims can be officers during their mandatory military service but cannot be career military officers.

The legal system previously discriminated against recognized religious minorities in relation to blood money; however, in 2004 the Expediency Council authorized collection of equal blood money for the death of Muslim and non-Muslim men. All women and Baha'i and Sabean-Mandean men remained excluded from the revised ruling. According to the law, Baha'i blood is considered mobah, meaning it can be spilled with impunity.

Inheritance laws favored Muslim family members over non-Muslims. For example, under existing inheritance laws, if a non-Muslim converted to Islam, that person would inherit all family holdings while non-Muslim relatives would receive nothing.

Proselytizing of Muslims by non-Muslims was illegal. The government did not ensure the right of citizens to change or recant their religion. Apostasy, specifically conversion from Islam, was punishable by death, although there were no reported instances of the death penalty being applied for apostasy during the year.

In December 2006 the government sponsored a conference entitled, "Review of the Holocaust: Global Vision." This conference was widely criticized as it sought to provide a forum for those who deny the existence or scope of the Holocaust. Speakers at the conference universally called for the elimination or delegitimization of the state of Israel and alleged that the Holocaust did not occur or was an exaggeration used by Jews for political and financial gains. The conference was followed by the establishment of the World Foundation for Holocaust Studies, run by a committee of Holocaust deniers.

In May 2006 a local magazine published photos of synagogues draped in U.S. and Israeli flags and claimed they were in Tehran and Shiraz when in fact they were outside of the country. Anti-Jewish and anti-Israel demonstrations followed in Shiraz. The Jewish MP protested in the Majles and was supported by the Speaker of the Majles, Gholam Ali Hadded Adel, who reprimanded the magazine.

Taken from Iran

[Jaydelart]

Originally Posted by alanX

That's giving it a little too much thought, and going a little bit too far. That's like:

X: I hate chocolate
Y: Oh that must mean you must hate milk because milk is in chocolate

No, X doesn't hate milk, he just hates chocolate. Get a clue

I wish I had a clue.

You're right.... but only to a certain extent.
Hating milk (The World) can act as the foundation for hating chocolate (America) because they are closely related. Though, I'm not sure comparing America to chocolate and The World to milk is an accurate analogy -- assuming you were aiming to be accurate. Modern day America comprises significantly of foreign people and cultures; You can't have modern day America without having foreign cultures ~ While you can have chocolate without milk.

America is largely diverse. Name any country in the world and I can almost guarantee you there are people from that country that live in - or better yet: migrated to - America. So, when a person says they hate Americans, who, exactly, are they referring to?

[noodle]

Originally Posted by solemnclockwork

Do you honestly think that Jews would be ok in an country that the leaders want to wipe Israel of the map, and continuous supports Terrorism to kill Jews and also supports t.v. shows calling them pigs? That potentially seeks an Nuclear bomb to destroy Israel. You seriously find nothing wrong with that? I can't give you an copy paste as that information comes from memory but I will point you to articles that back up what I"m saying (oh by the way a LOT of that was reported in the news so it should be common nowledge.)

there's a difference in having the people put demeaning marks on a grave and having the government do it.

What are you trying to say exactly? There ARE Jewish people in THAT country As for the not remembering where you got the copy and paste thing, lol, please. No offense to your English, but the level of English between your posts and what you posted is totally different!

As for the marks on the grave thing, that was a QUOTE from a Jew in Iran!


I'm gonna step back from this convo for two reasons... This isn't the thread for it, and secondly, it will just turn into another "Western Media Conspiracy" kind of discussion!

Originally Posted by Jaydelart

America is largely diverse. Name any country in the world and I can almost guarantee you there are people from that country that live in - or better yet: migrated to - America. So, when a person says they hate Americans, who, exactly, are they referring to?

I don't think those people are actually talking about ethnicity! It's about nationality. For example, I am Berber, Algerian, but now I have British Nationality, and I am very proud to be British! In a debate against Algerians, if I believe the Algerian is wrong, I am proud to defend Britain!

[tifa]

sucks, why hate it and still live there why act all...mean soooo funny...main though, when i get out of america im going japan! ..uhuh..*walks away*

[alanX]

Originally Posted by tifa

sucks, why hate it and still live there why act all...mean soooo funny...main though, when i get out of america im going japan! ..uhuh..*walks away*

How? .