Communication for all cultures and the Cyber World

[RadioKid]

Originally Posted by Debi

If the listener say "そうです" once the speaker is done speaking, it doesn't mean he listened carefully to what the speaker was saying.
It's not different from when the listener say "Oh yeah" here in the West.

ozkai was saying that japaneses always seems to listen and think about what you are saying, which is not more true than any other cultures.

You say japaneses are good with japanese communication but bad at westerner(english) communication.
We could say that english are good with english communication but bad at japanese comm.

What I think is formidable is the quality of formal situations in japanese.

>If the listener say "そうです" once the speaker is done speaking, it doesn't mean he listened carefully to what the speaker was saying.

What are you talking about?

1) Communication between Japanese and Japanese in Japanese
2) Communication between Japanese and westerner in English
3) Communication between Japanese and westerner in Japanese
4) Communication between Japanese and you in English
5) Communication between Japanese and you in Japanese

Japanese people tend to agree to the talker too easily. It would be more likey when the Japanese feel trouble talking/listening in foreign languege. It depends on case by case for the personality and language skill.

>You say japaneses are good with japanese communication but bad at westerner(english) communication.
>We could say that english are good with english communication but bad at japanese comm.

Of course you are right. however, the issue in this thread is what will happen when international communication is required.

>What I think is formidable is the quality of formal situations in japanese.

Sorry, I can not catch you yet and I must leave now.

[ozkai]

Originally Posted by Debi

You are talking about formal or informal situations ?

Both and all (In general)

[ozkai]

Originally Posted by Debi

You are asking a lot of questions here.
I'd not go as far as saying that japanese are so much better at communication than westerners.
My opinion is that you might have fell in love with Japan.

For what I know, they doesn't listen better than anyone.
そう...
そうです
そうですか
そうですね
those are pretty much the "yeah.. (i don't care) we commonly hear in english.

You sound worried their!

[Debi]

I've read your post and you indeed make sense.
But I just can't agree with you.
There is too much generalities in such statements.
You talk about huge populations (there is around 127mil japaneses) as being this or that but you base your judgements on very small subset.

I'm not a big fan of labelling such huge population as being this or that.

But I do respect your opinion. Japanese is indeed a fascinating culture and it's exactly for that reason I'm going in Japan next week. But like I said, Japan is not just one big box on which you can write "Good Listener" on it.

[darksyndrem]

Originally Posted by ozkai

I also find that Western people, certainly Australian's and I am guessing "US" to, we tend to listen off the top of our heads, and quite often, we don't hear whole senetences, but rather cut people off by turning our heads and saying Yeah.

This is partially true for the US but I find it a bit of a generalization. I, for one, find it VERY rude and offensive for someone to do that. And would hate for people to assume that I would. (Not saying that you are assuming I would) but yeah, I just wanted to say that lol

[ozkai]

Originally Posted by Debi

I've read your post and you indeed make sense..

Appreciate the thumbs up.

Originally Posted by Debi

But I just can't agree with you.

Why not?

Originally Posted by Debi

There is too much generalities in such statements.

OK

Originally Posted by Debi

You talk about huge populations (there is around 127mil japaneses) as being this or that but you base your judgements on very small subset.

No, I've based my "subset" on 83 million

Originally Posted by Debi

I'm not a big fan of labelling such huge population as being this or that.

OK.

Originally Posted by Debi

But I do respect your opinion.

Thank you

Originally Posted by Debi

Japanese is indeed a fascinating culture and it's exactly for that reason I'm going in Japan next week.

I'll take your word for that

Originally Posted by Debi

But like I said,

hai-hai...

Originally Posted by Debi

Japan is not just one big box on which you can write "Good Listener" on it.

OK..

[mandalina]

deleted...

[RadioKid]

Originally Posted by Debi

There is too much generalities in such statements.
You talk about huge populations (there is around 127mil japaneses) as being this or that but you base your judgements on very small subset.

I think Oz'z(not orz) generalization is reasonable because his suggestion seems to be based on the characteristics of Japanese language.

Language makes culture and culture makes language.

[Debi]

Originally Posted by ozkai

Appreciate the thumbs up.
Why not?
OK
No, I've based my "subset" on 83 million
OK.
Thank you
I'll take your word for that
hai-hai...
OK..

HAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!!!
Dude, that was hilarous !!!!
You really are a funny guy!

[Debi]

It's kinda ironic, it's a thread about communication and right now we fail to understand each others.

I'll take your initial post and do like you did previously :

Originally Posted by ozkai

After spending a healthy period residing in Japan, one thing that struck me was the outstanding ability of Japanese in the art of communication.

How long did you stay ?
Is it each individuals ability to communicate that astonish you or the japanese language in general ?

Originally Posted by ozkai

Is this easier for Japanese people because they simply have the right single words and sayings and they just know when and where to use them, or does this involve extra stress with an instruction like feeling?

Since you ask the question, my opinion is that japanese just have the same diversity of words and expressions that any other languages have. I know dozen of expressions just to say good bye and I'm not a native.

Actually, the different level of politeness and formalities can make it even more diversified than other languages.

Of course, the more formal you get, the more of a "standard" pattern you get as there is less and less place for diversity.

Originally Posted by ozkai

Western cultures are all so different and each individual almost always says something different to the next.

Western cultures ? Sorry but you can't really put ALL the different western cultures into the same basket. I'm french and my culture is different from the english or any others dozen of different western cultures. In that way of thinking, we could put all the asians cultures in the same basket, chineses, thai, lao, vietnameses, ect. and that would totally change the datas.
Let's stick to American culture, that would be much more simple.

Originally Posted by ozkai

For example, for hello we may say. Good day, Hi, What's new, How are you going, etc., whereas the Japanese seem to have the correct same words for each and all..

Once again, I don't know how you got that perception, like I said before, japanese language is as diversified as english.
Maybe you feel like japanese always use the same correct words because you always had to deal with them in formal situations. If you talk with youngs persons in informal situations, you will hear a vast varieties of different expressions for greetings as well.

Originally Posted by ozkai

I also find that Western people, certainly Australian's and I am guessing "US" to, we tend to listen off the top of our heads, and quite often, we don't hear whole senetences, but rather cut people off by turning our heads and saying Yeah.

You are generalizing based on your perceptions and own experiences.
I know many people who listen perfectly to what I have to say and reply accordingly. It's different for each individuals and each situations.

Originally Posted by ozkai

I found Japanese we always listen and think, or at least appear to be.

Who ? In what situations ? Maybe it's true in some particulars situations but false in others. True with some people and false with others.
One point you should consider is that you are a foreigner. They might make extraordinary efforts to make you feel at ease or whatever.
A foreigner dealing with locals is different from a local dealing with other locals.

Originally Posted by ozkai

Is this for real or is it just a style?

In overall, I think japanese is a much more polite and respectuous culture than americans. The politeness is hierarchized. If you constantly communicated as a "customer" or a "guest", you might have the feeling that japanese are just sooooo respectuous and servile.
As a foreigner, the common japanese can perceive you as being "a guest of Japan" and treat you that way. The more you establish and the less this perception will be true.

Originally Posted by ozkai

What does all this mean?

Ehhh... I don't know !!!

Originally Posted by ozkai

Are humans failing in face to face communication in the real world?

Wow, you are literally taking this thread to another level.

Originally Posted by ozkai

Are we failing communication in the Cyberworld?

Once again, you bring this debate into a whole new questions.

Originally Posted by ozkai

Are we failing in both worlds, or is one successful?

We rules, we are humans dude
But the question would be : "we would be failing compared to what standards ?"
We are the creatures with the best communication skills of the planet.
We have no superiors models.