Pres. Obama and Nobel Peace Prize

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

unfortunately this is becoming more and more standard. The American educational system along with many other areas needs to be revamp badly. I dont know what happen but the kids i see today do not learn nearly as much as my generation or the ones before mine did. American kids are falling behind many other industrialized countries in two important categories Math and Science. Also, the drop out rate has started to climb and the amount of patents issued has declined. Its very worrisome that people arent even being creative anymore.

I personally blame it on stuff like NCLB. They're more concerned and focused on students passing their end of the year standardized test as opposed to them learning and retaining the actual material.

[IamKira]

god i love political debates... I will freely admit that any of my comments on here should be taken with a grain of salt... for I am undoubtedly bias towards the left a bit..

I used to be right wing, republican type...(almost red-neck).. however, you can't close off your eyes to the atrocities commited under the Bush administration, which is why my political views had to shift...

now I don't bother to support a party, that is one of the fundamental flaws with america. people think "oh, i need to set myself to a party - republican or democrat"... when really, we should, all of us be approaching each situation or issue individually and find the best solution for it.. not just going off what some political establishment has deemed suitable


this is why i like this thread. i am shocked it hasn't digressed into some huge flame war, so i thank you all who've posted in here for keeping it civilized.

[hippykiller1]

the left/right para dime is pretty horrible.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

I personally blame it on stuff like NCLB. They're more concerned and focused on students passing their end of the year standardized test as opposed to them learning and retaining the actual material.

Yep iv been saying that for years even before i finished high school. I asked my teachers why its more important for students to pass standardized state test than to actually retain the knowledge i always got a bogus answer but i already knew the truth its called money. I was lucky to go to school in Montgomery Country in Maryland just outside DC the counties standards are really high and the county consistently finishes in the top 20 best places to send you kids to primary school rankings, because of the influcne of politicans kids and foreign diplomat children amoung other factors.

But when i see the inner city and midwest scores i tremble. If Americans took the citizenship test about 80% would fail. Its as bad as children not knowing who the first president was or what is the Supreme law of the land.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by IamKira

now I don't bother to support a party, that is one of the fundamental flaws with america. people think "oh, i need to set myself to a party - republican or democrat"... when really, we should, all of us be approaching each situation or issue individually and find the best solution for it.. not just going off what some political establishment has deemed suitable

I agree you with you there sir. Although i am registered as Democrat i really don't stick to one party exclusively. I believe too many people that this democrat republican business too far often more times that not if divides us instead of working towards the best interest of the country.

[SSJup81]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Yep iv been saying that for years even before i finished high school.

I noticed that way after I got out. For instance, the SOL (Standards of Learning) test, which is what it's called for my state, was just starting when I was leaving, so I never had to bother with taking it. I know they made me take one for Geometry, but they said that if we passed it, then we wouldn't have to take a final, which was irrelevant for me, because I'd taken Honors Geometry the prior year so I didn't even bother trying it.

Anyway, my eyes were really opened after I finally got to see and witness it firsthand when as an Assistant Teacher last year. I'd only heard other teachers complaining about it (years ago, I was in the Student Virginia Education Association when at CC), but now I understand what the problem is. This is one part of the public education system that needs to be "reformed". They need to go back to the basic ways of teaching, imo, and stop worrying about passing tests...then again, if a certain percentage doesn't pass, the school risks losing funding.

The only thing I agree with as far as NCLB is concerned is that it's supposedly helping to give everyone a chance at an education...I don't feel it's right to dumb down the curriculum just so they can pass a test, or keep continuing to give them ways to pass it and all of their assignments. At the middle school I was assistant teaching at (ironically, my former middle school), the students were given various amounts of times to turn in late assignments they didn't feel like doing. One student got off his lazy bum and finally turned in a worksheet that was due at the beginning of like February or March. It was going into June. No threat of failing or anything. I sometimes wonder if I should even get into teaching since I'm so old-fashioned. Teachers are pretty much forced to "teach to the test". If the students don't get it, who cares...as long as they pass that standardized test. -_-

I asked my teachers why its more important for students to pass standardized state test than to actually retain the knowledge i always got a bogus answer but i already knew the truth its called money. I was lucky to go to school in Montgomery Country in Maryland just outside DC the counties standards are really high and the county consistently finishes in the top 20 best places to send you kids to primary school rankings, because of the influcne of politicans kids and foreign diplomat children amoung other factors.

Ah, so you were in Maryland. I'm in Virginia. That aside, it still sucks that schools aren't all that great anymore. Seems in the past, students learned more and all that, but what can be done about it? I know during the campaign, both Obama and Hilary were adamant on fixing the education system and didn't seem to advocate NCLB. Seems that's getting put on the backburner for now, but it's no surprise. There's a lot to be done to make up for the past administration.

But when i see the inner city and midwest scores i tremble. If Americans took the citizenship test about 80% would fail.

My best friend took his citizenship test back in the early 2000s. He'd been here in the US since he was young, but wasn't born here. He joked and said I should've married him to make it easier. When he took the test, he said it was nothing but a joke. I can't remember some of the questions, though, since it was so long ago, but when he asked them to me, I got them. One question asked of him, was if he was a prostitute. Y-eah...

Its as bad as children not knowing who the first president was or what is the Supreme law of the land.

Oh yeah, that reminds me. My father said he was listening to the radio or something, and some mid-western kids were asked who was on the dollar bill, and most couldn't answer. That just blew me away.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by samurai007

MMM, every school is different, but I've seen some of this first hand. My degree is in History/Soc Science teaching. During my senior year, one of my professors was fired for no apparent reason. I checked in to it, talked to several professors that I'd known for years, and found out it was all political. I had some long and very frank discussions with several professors that year, and even with some of my old high school teachers, and found out about a lot about the behind-the-scenes blacklisting of conservative teachers, the pressure upon them, the harassment, etc. Those discussions were a major reason why I did not go on and get my teaching credential... I knew that my kind was not wanted in academia, and in fact was forcibly run out if they dared show up, as happened to that prof that was fired (I was lucky enough to have his class, and he was an excellent teacher, very apolitical in class, but accidentally opened his mouth outside of class and lost his job over it).

In contrast, I knew and had classes with some repulsively left-wing professors and students, some of whom indoctrinated my own brother, who to this day is still a leftist who believes all kinds of crazy things, such as Bush was behind 9/11. Before university, he was center-right. After university, he was hard left, and I even saw which classes and professors were mostly responsible. Those same leftist counter-culture types got him into drugs and drinking, which he is still struggling with today, 15 years later.

Finally, I do recruiting for JET at the university each year, so I see what is still going on there somewhat. You should have seen it last year, when I attended the career fair there during the elections... the radicals were out in full force.

But beyond my own experiences, you should read some of the books on the subject...

Amazon.com: Indoctrination U:The Left's War Against Academic Freedom (9781594031908): David Horowitz: Books
Amazon.com: One-Party Classroom: How Radical Professors at America's Top Colleges Indoctrinate Students and Undermine Our Democracy (9780307452559): David Horowitz, Jacob Laksin: Books

PS: I bet many of the kids in this thread got at least some of their anti-American views from their teachers... Guys, am I right?

At least you acknowledge that every school is different, and hope you can extend that to your experiences are your own.

In an alternative opinion, me and my fellow colleagues often cringed at election time because the STUDENTS were (and are) much more political than school policies allow teachers to be. Not only would "indoctrination" have lead to suspension or firing, regardless or which side of the aisle the teacher was, even mentioning who you were going to vote for for president or how you were going to vote on ballot measures was totally against the rules. As "authority figures" discussing politics could be construed as influencing, and was (and is) strictly prohibited. Teachers were not allowed to have political bumper stickers, wear pins or t-shirts advocating a certain cause or politician.

I was a part of student government in college, so I did get to see the political views of my teachers on both sides, but for the most part the politicizing and influencing was much more strong student to student than teacher to student. But, again, every school has its own policies and environment.

[samurai007]

Originally Posted by MMM

At least you acknowledge that every school is different, and hope you can extend that to your experiences are your own.

In an alternative opinion, me and my fellow colleagues often cringed at election time because the STUDENTS were (and are) much more political than school policies allow teachers to be. Not only would "indoctrination" have lead to suspension or firing, regardless or which side of the aisle the teacher was, even mentioning who you were going to vote for for president or how you were going to vote on ballot measures was totally against the rules. As "authority figures" discussing politics could be construed as influencing, and was (and is) strictly prohibited. Teachers were not allowed to have political bumper stickers, wear pins or t-shirts advocating a certain cause or politician.

I was a part of student government in college, so I did get to see the political views of my teachers on both sides, but for the most part the politicizing and influencing was much more strong student to student than teacher to student. But, again, every school has its own policies and environment.

Yes, my experiences are my own, as are yours. But mine were very different from what you're describing. I had many teachers who voiced their political views in class, even when it wasn't the subject of the class at all... for instance, my computer science teacher was one of the worst, taking anywhere from 5 to 30 minutes(!) each day of a 50 minute class to rant about the latest politics... needless to say, nobody learned a lot about computers in that class. Classes in the liberal arts, especially history, politics, literature, etc had the cover of "this is related to what the class is supposed to be about" and so would spend entire days discussing the teachers' views on politics and issues. And not in a "here's a balanced view of what the left and right each believe", presented in such a non-biased way that the teacher's own views were unknown. In fact, in one Poli-Sci class, the teacher would only give the left-wing view and then would call on me, the only admitted conservative in the class, for the "Republican response". He and I literally had hour long debates in class sometimes! Luckily, most of the teachers I had stopped short of lowering the grade of a conservative (there there were 1 or 2 that did, and I learned to keep my mouth shut in those classes.)

[IamKira]

Originally Posted by samurai007

(there there were 1 or 2 that did, and I learned to keep my mouth shut in those classes.)

that's no good... if they're going to supply a discussion on such topics.. neigh, even if the teacher is not the instigator of such a discussion, there is absolutely no excuse for such action... that is absolutely unprofessional and ludicris...
i had an English teacher like that freshman year of high school... i would write an amazingly composed paper with great relevant textual citings and he would grade me down for it because those papers did not follow his views of the book. then i'd write a couple - half assed papers in which i'd agree with his vision of the book, and miraculously i'd end up with a 90- 98% grade... needless to say i did not heed my own conclusions and wrote whatever the hell i felt the books were on about... and ended up with about an 79% in the class overall..


also, i do believe a teacher should make an open statement to the class on each subject they talk about as to what they believe on the subject so that the students can judge for themselves knowing which way the teacher is bias towards

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by SSJup81

I noticed that way after I got out. For instance, the SOL (Standards of Learning) test, which is what it's called for my state, was just starting when I was leaving, so I never had to bother with taking it. I know they made me take one for Geometry, but they said that if we passed it, then we wouldn't have to take a final, which was irrelevant for me, because I'd taken Honors Geometry the prior year so I didn't even bother trying it.

Anyway, my eyes were really opened after I finally got to see and witness it firsthand when as an Assistant Teacher last year. I'd only heard other teachers complaining about it (years ago, I was in the Student Virginia Education Association when at CC), but now I understand what the problem is. This is one part of the public education system that needs to be "reformed". They need to go back to the basic ways of teaching, imo, and stop worrying about passing tests...then again, if a certain percentage doesn't pass, the school risks losing funding.

I hear you one of the swinging factors in me voting for Obama was because he presented a path on education that was more in line with what i thought would work, i did not think Hilliary's reform of the educational system would help student actually learn. Fast forwarded to the present and of course thing have been put on the back burner. I know once i figured out that many action take by the school board was for money i became quite disenchanted with the status quo. However the positive side of that was i started volunteering at elementary and middle schools in the key program and tutor children after school then i started doing it in the inner city in DC. Learning how the system worked got me more proactive.

I believe that true change in this country will come with education. Its proven time and time again Education is the key maybe solving but quelling a lot of issues in this country including racism, family planning, STD's and financial spending and general mental health. I agree with you they need to get back to basics and build a firm root structure and build on it. It pains me when i see some of blatant ignorant comments people make and granted when i get upset or pissed off i can be just as bad. But there are some that choose not to educated themselves thats just scary.

The only thing I agree with as far as NCLB is concerned is that it's supposedly helping to give everyone a chance at an education...I don't feel it's right to dumb down the curriculum just so they can pass a test, or keep continuing to give them ways to pass it and all of their assignments. At the middle school I was assistant teaching at (ironically, my former middle school), the students were given various amounts of times to turn in late assignments they didn't feel like doing. One student got off his lazy bum and finally turned in a worksheet that was due at the beginning of like February or March. It was going into June. No threat of failing or anything. I sometimes wonder if I should even get into teaching since I'm so old-fashioned. Teachers are pretty much forced to "teach to the test". If the students don't get it, who cares...as long as they pass that standardized test. -_-[/size][/font]Ah, so you were in Maryland. I'm in Virginia. That aside, it still sucks that schools aren't all that great anymore. Seems in the past, students learned more and all that, but what can be done about it? I know during the campaign, both Obama and Hilary were adamant on fixing the education system and didn't seem to advocate NCLB. Seems that's getting put on the backburner for now, but it's no surprise. There's a lot to be done to make up for the past administration.

SO you went the VA educational system i hear MD and VA systems are pretty similar which is why is probably why im understanding where you are coming from. I agree just because a student passes a test does not mean they actually understand the material. They dumbdown the curriculum to make it easier for the students to pass to me thats teaching. They are so concerned about how much money they are getting in the next term that do it at the expense of education. No child left behind implemented by Bush did not work imo and did not address the larger concern and did involve parents enough but it was start.

My best friend took his citizenship test back in the early 2000s. He'd been here in the US since he was young, but wasn't born here. He joked and said I should've married him to make it easier. When he took the test, he said it was nothing but a joke. I can't remember some of the questions, though, since it was so long ago, but when he asked them to me, I got them. One question asked of him, was if he was a prostitute. Y-eah...

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Oh yeah, that reminds me. My father said he was listening to the radio or something, and some mid-western kids were asked who was on the dollar bill, and most couldn't answer. That just blew me away.

Yea i read about that it was horrible i was actually upset all day about it. I found the test on line and decided to take it. I did get the question "how many judges sit on the supreme court?" for the life of me i couldn't remember lol. But its kind of scary to see the downward spiral in the educational system.

just for kicks here are the questions to the test. I wont post the answers but i will post the percentage of students who answered the question correctly. For the answers people can Google if they want.

1. What is the supreme law of the land? 29.5 percent

2.What do we call the first 10 amendments to the Constitution? 25 percent

3.What are the two parts of the U.S. Congress?23 percent

4.How many justices are on the Supreme Court?9.4 percent

5.Who wrote the Declaration of Independence?25.3 percent

6.What ocean is on the East Coast of the United States? 58.8 percent

7. What are the two major political parties in the United States? 49.6 percent

8. We elect a U.S. senator for how many years? 14.5 percent

9. Who was the first president? 26.5 percent

10. Who is in charge of the executive branch? 26.5 percent