New Law in the U.S. State: Arizona

[vegna]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Of course illegals are not blood thirsty monsters by definition.
But with the amount of illegals in the country unable to work breeds gangs, theft and other crime. The statistics on this are staggering and this is the reason Arizona has to act.

I am sorry clintjm but i hope this shows some people a bit of enlightenment.

"Of course African-Americans are not blood thirsty monsters by definition.
But with the amount of African-Americans in the country unable to work breeds gangs, theft and other crime. The statistics on this are staggering and this is the reason Arizona has to act."

[kunitokotachi]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

If you want to immigrate here i have no problem with that but you have to do it lawfully those who break the law and are caught need to be identified, finger printed and put on list and sent back to their home country not kept in jail with free food and shelter which will cost tax payers even more money. I believe in reform not the racial profiling which this law will undoubtedly create. I feel for Arizona residents since the Feds have done nothing to fix the problem but this is not right.

Fingerprinting and sending them back to their country is not a severe enough punishment. Would you stop breaking laws if you knew you were just going to be fingerprinted and sent home.

However, you bring up a valid point about costs of incarceration. Arizona Corrections state that is cost $61.74 to keep an inmate each day. That is approximately $22,535 annually per inmate. That is a lot of money. I don't know if there is enough funding to house like 600,000 illegals or how many there are. Definitely, the employers of illegals must be incarcerated.

Here is a link to Arizona Correction's site - Arizona Department of Corrections

Two things I would like to point out. First, Cesare Beccaria (one of the great criminologists) taught us that in order for a society to effectively deter people from committing crimes, the punishment must be severe enough.

Why? Due to the fact that human beings are hedonistic meaning that we seek pleasure and try to escape pain.

He listed two types of deterrents. Specific and general deterrent.
Specific deterrence means that you punish the individual in a way that they don't want to commit the crime again. General deterrence is when we in society as a whole watch someone get punished and that act deters us from then committing crimes.

Unfortunately, sending people back home isn't going to meet that criteria of deterrence. In addition, food and shelter does not equal a good time in incarceration. Prison life is crazy, stressing, and dangerous. You don't know when someone will try to harm, kill, or rape you. Furthermore, most people are not happy with their entire day mandated by someone or happy with the fact that they have completely lost their freedom.

Second, you will have to explain how the law is a racial profiling law. The law just asserts officers can lawfully question people about their residential status. There are many ways an officer can initiate this line of questioning with race ever being an issue. I challenge you to play devil's advocate and try to think of some. I will also list some examples if you need help.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by vegna

I am sorry clintjm but i hope this shows some people a bit of enlightenment.

"Of course African-Americans are not blood thirsty monsters by definition.
But with the amount of African-Americans in the country unable to work breeds gangs, theft and other crime. The statistics on this are staggering and this is the reason Arizona has to act."

There is a typo in that statement... I left out the word "all" and that with "by definition" does come out a bit weird so that you can play mad libs.

I was replying to someone who was pointing out all illegal immigrants are not involved in criminal activity.

It should of read:

"Of course all illegal immigrants are not blood thirsty monsters.
But with the amount of illegal immigrants in the country unable to work breeds gangs, theft and other crime. The statistics on this are staggering and this is the reason Arizona has to act."

The fact is a lot of illegals are young, get involved in gangs and crime such as theft, hit and runs which include second degree murder. That being said there are people here that come here just to get what they can for a better; and in some cases they are desperate. That isn't unethical, but it is still against the law, as it is in all other countries.

Your attempt to make this racial is disheartening, and if aimed directly at me is an insult. But it is all the left leaning talking heads that want to push this as; along with comparing this to Nazi Germany by asking for "papers". Please refrain from going that route.

Eyeblast.tv

'View' Gets Heated Over Arizona Immigration Law - ABC News


Absolute BEST Summary:


Watch 04/27/10" Video at mediaite

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by fluffy0000

Immigration Project A Project of the University of Arizona’s Udall Center for Studies in Public PolicyThe Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy,
below excerpted 2007' policy study;

How about a link so we can see where those numbers came from.

Wow the states gov are making money hand over fist from having them here. And without the financial and criminal liabilites (as you posted none) of having illegals there, lets open the borders, and send them to other states that are in a budget deficit.

Lets start by sending them to DC.
I'm sure Arizona will pay the bill to move them all there.

[fluffy0000]

the University of Arizona is in Arizona dude, the Udall Center is named after same Arizona's Congressman from District 2 from 1961-1991 served in congress like forever. Specifically Udall Center for studies in public policy established in 1987 - website listed http/udallcenter.arizona.edu they have buttload of studies on immigration and it's effects on Arizonas economy that refutes all your arguements and fantasys.
California passed similar immigration legislation prop 187' in 1994 and it was l8tr struck down in 1997' by the federal courts ruled unconstitutional.
the studies are located on the website and are in PDF formats these studies date from as far back as 2007' enjoy.
I did'nt post these figures dude, these are from the studies listed above from Udall Center. Yes - your right-wing echo chamber probably has 'better' studies. If you would like to add up figures for financial and criminal liabilities you should start with reading a copy of Mein Kampf and roasting marsh mellows around the campfire.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by fluffy0000

the University of Arizona is in Arizona dude, the Udall Center is named after same Arizona's Congressman from District 2 from 1961-1991 served in congress like forever. Specifically Udall Center for studies in public policy established in 1987 - website listed http/udallcenter.arizona.edu they have buttload of studies on immigration and it's effects on Arizonas economy that refutes all your arguements and fantasys.
California passed similar immigration legislation prop 187' in 1994 and it was l8tr struck down in 1997' by the federal courts ruled unconstitutional.
the studies are located on the website and are in PDF formats these studies date from as far back as 2007' enjoy.
I did'nt post these figures dude, these are from the studies listed above from Udall Center. Yes - your right-wing echo chamber probably has 'better' studies. If you would like to add up figures for financial and criminal liabilities you should start with reading a copy of Mein Kampf and roasting marsh mellows around the campfire.

Well typed my friend. Also thanks for the "Link" to nothing that refutes all my arguments. I'll let you know when I finish reading the "butt load" of studies from as far back as '2007' that state importing another country's impoverished, without regulation is a win-win for a country financially. However a 5 year old can do the math on this. Importing poverty at an unregulated undocumented level does not balance a country into the black nor lower the crime level.

You have also proved my point on comparing this Arizona law to WW2 Nazi Germany that most of the "left" officials, mass media, an know nothing celbs are trying to make. I posted some actual links to videos in a previous post. So how is this like Nazi Germany in any way?

Take a look at France and other European countries if you want to see real rioting on the matter; from the people of the country, who are riotiing because of *legal* immigration.

I'm pro immigration; not pro-illegal immigration. It is why there are laws put into place on entering this country. It is what make a sovereign nation. No other sovereign nation on the planet does what the U.S. does on this level/rate for immigration.

[fluffy0000]

dude relax and take another cialis. The University of Arizona and the Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy was all made up by myself or the left wing media to confuse you.
best wishes - in not injuring yourself
screwing your tin foil hat back on.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by fluffy0000

dude relax and take another cialis. The University of Arizona and the Udall Center for Studies in Public Policy was all made up by myself or the left wing media to confuse you.
best wishes - in not injuring yourself
screwing your tin foil hat back on.

Sticks and stones fluff.
You avoid answering the questions put before you.

[vegna]

Originally Posted by clintjm

Your attempt to make this racial is disheartening, and if aimed directly at me is an insult. But it is all the left leaning talking heads that want to push this as; along with comparing this to Nazi Germany by asking for "papers". Please refrain from going that route.

Hey clintjm,

First of all i like to say that it wasn't aimed at you, and the same scenario was discussed with the Cambridge police against that African American teacher, some people were asking if that would happen if the officer was black if that would be a issue.

Second is that how can this be not a racial issue? These people have a different culture, language and ideologies. I know they broke the law, and by law i mean political law, they didn't murder, rape or stole anything. They came here to better of themselves, to achieve the American dream, on which this country was fought for. Because this law, in my believe does not contain any justice.

Regardless of all that, illegal immigrants runs lower America, you see them at McDonald's, burger king, plantation field etcs. Let's say we get rid of them all, who is going to run those establishments? I don't see young Americans doing it for a long period of time with such low wages, and older people wouldn't settler for a McDonald's, i doubt a person with a chemical degree wants that jobs. The middle class can't functional without the lower class, all of that means inflation. On today's economy it could have a huge impact, do you really want 5 dollars for an apple?

I am just assuming, let's do the wait and see.

[manganimefan227]

Yup, and also, it's not like we're a bunch'a saints either. Our own kind, our own neighbors do these kind of things too. It's an unfourtanate part of human nature, so please, don't point at the scared-in-a-corner immigrants.