Research - Okinawan Term 'kakai'.

[shida]

Dear Members

I am a writer who has been researching the karate-do style of Okinawan Goju Ryu. The area of particular interest is the practice known as 'kakai', which is usually translated into English as 'stick hand'. I am trying to locate the Japanese ideograms for 'kakai', and despite approaching several karate schools and one or two Okinawan web sires, I have as yet received no answer.

I would be very grateful if anyone could guide me in the right direction. The complication appears to arise from the fact that 'kakai', as a practice, might well have arisen in Fujian province - China, and spread to Okinawa, with 'kakai' perhaps being a Chinese word.

Thank you for your time in this matter.

[siokan]

What is kakai name?
ryu-ha? kata? weapon?

[shida]

Here is a short explanation of the practice:

Kakie
Okinawan Traditional Goju Ryu Karate-do Association History Page

'Partner exercises (gyaku-te in Goju-Ryu) with qinna, are the basis of kakie ('kokie' in the Fujian dialect), one of the strongholds of Goju-Ryu.

Goju-Ryu is characterised by emphasising close-combat fighting. In basic kakie the karate-ka learns the go-aspects such as rooting, absorbing power, using muchimi and ki-expansion. Aspects that are also emphasised in sanchin kata. In the technical respect the karate-ka learns to use pushing- and pulling-techniques in this phase in order to out-balance his opponent (kuzushi waza) to make the fighting distance suitable to himself. Connected to this, different methods to lock arms (or legs) of the opponent and 'opening up' the vital points of the body follow (kyushu-jutsu).

After learning these basics the applications of the kata are integrated in kakie.

The fighting techniques trained in kakie, like so many bunkai kumite, are known as 'gyaku-te' and are divided in categories like e.g. kansetsu waza (manipulation of the joints), nage waza (throwing techniques), shime waza (strangulation's) and kyusho waza (manipulation of the vital points).

Kakie training is integrated in the total curriculum. As soon as a good foundation is laid in terms of basic techniques and abilities, kakie training shifts to become more free form ending in jiyu kakie kumite and iri kumi, the free-fight exercise and competition-form of Goju-Ryu.

Many techniques trained in kakie and in the bunkai can be traced back to the old Chinese text about fighting arts, the 'Bubishi'.'

There are a number of ways of transliteraing this term into English - kakai, kaki, kokie and kakie, etc. I am trying to pin-point the exact Japanese characters for 'ka' and 'kai'. I was thinking that a Goju Ryu Karate-Do text in Japanese might well contain these characters.

Thank you.

PS: This is the actual practice:

Kakie
MOCO

[siokan]

It is not kakai but it is kakie.
kakie = かきえ
It was being written by the hiragana on all sites in web.
There is not the detailed explanation of kakie in WEB.

Examined consequence.
*kakei does only Goju.
*There is no book that shows the origin.
*There are a lot of sects also in Goju-ryu.
*The thing that everyone says is different.
*Wikipedia is a battlefield.

Bubishi 武備志
It is difficult to read the old book of China.
There are a lot of Manuscript mistakes.
There is a Chinese character not used by the age, and are a lot of replacements, too.
There are similarly a lot of mistakes as for the referred book.
The positive answer is not found through life.
(I'm looking forward to it however. )

uncertain history(cn) * uncertain history(jp) = Chaos

[shida]

Dear Siokan

Thank you so much for this valuable information. The story is that it is a martial practice that originated in Fujian province. The thinking is that Okinawans took this practice and called it 'kakie', which is believed to have the meaning 'stick hands'. Kakie is an Okinawan approximation of the Fujian (Hokkien?) words. The problem I have had is that modern day Hokkien speakers do not recognise this term.

In your view, what is the literal translation of かきえ?

I bow with thanks.

[godwine]

I did some searches for you on various Japanese site through google Japan, I don't think there is an literal translation to かきえ

I practice GOJU myself, to us KAKI is an actual blocking technique we practice, mainly in Kakomi Kumite (5 man sparring drill).

Base on the description that shida discovered, it sounded like かきえ is very similar to Kakomi Kumite or the bunkai of our katas

[shida]

Originally Posted by godwine

I did some searches for you on various Japanese site through google Japan, I don't think there is an literal translation to かきえ

I practice GOJU myself, to us KAKI is an actual blocking technique we practice, mainly in Kakomi Kumite (5 man sparring drill).

Base on the description that shida discovered, it sounded like かきえ is very similar to Kakomi Kumite or the bunkai of our katas

Thank you Godwine, for your efforts in this matter. I was wondering whether such a term from China would have Chinese characters - but these characters 'かきえ' appear to be Japanese. Do you think 'kakie' comes from Fujian province?

Thank you

[godwine]

Originally Posted by shida

Thank you Godwine, for your efforts in this matter. I was wondering whether such a term from China would have Chinese characters - but these characters 'かきえ' appear to be Japanese. Do you think 'kakie' comes from Fujian province?

Thank you

I am Chinese, but have no connection with the Fujian province at all. Though, that pronounciation doesn't resembles anything out of the limited amount of dialect I can understand. Though let me check with a couple of people that I know first, now that i think of it, base on the description, if its actually relates to any Chinese art, the closest form I think will either be Pushing hand (推手-Tui Shou) from Tai Chi, or Sticky Hand (黐手 - Chi Shou) from Wing Chun, but none of them sounded anything like Kaki

[shida]

Originally Posted by godwine

I am Chinese, but have no connection with the Fujian province at all. Though, that pronounciation doesn't resembles anything out of the limited amount of dialect I can understand. Though let me check with a couple of people that I know first, now that i think of it, base on the description, if its actually relates to any Chinese art, the closest form I think will either be Pushing hand (推手-Tui Shou) from Tai Chi, or Sticky Hand (黐手 - Chi Shou) from Wing Chun, but none of them sounded anything like Kaki

Thank you Godwine! I am Anglo-Chinese, but my Hakka relatives do not know the term either! As a matter of interest, this is what a Hokkien speaker told me about chi sau:

Question.'
By the way, as a matter of interest, how is 黐手 (chi sau) pronounced in Hokkien?

Thank you.

Answer.
Hokkien uses 粘手(Niam C'iu) rather than 黐手 (T'i C'iu).

But both doesn't sound anything like Kakei.'

Thank you for your help, it is very much appreciated.

A bow to you.

[shida]

Dear All!

We have been working to put the Japanese characters into Chinese characters - as 'kakie' is believed to be Chinese in origination:

Japanese: か き え


Chinese: 力 手 元

This would translate as 'Power Hand Ancient', or 'Li Shou Yuan'. As there are three clear ideograms, then 'kakie' must be pronounced 'ka', 'ki' and 'e'.

Thank you