studying versus being an entrepenour

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by fluffy0000

less Ayn Rand, dude
Before Enron collapsed or the US financial collapse of 2008'. Enron and Wall St. including Lehman Bros. were driving peoples energy bills, and retirement pensions, and millions of homeowners mortgages over the cliff.

The discomfort of using foodstamps while shopping for these well-educated or former entrepreneurs of Wall St. must have been traumatic. On the other hand the 'unwashed' masses who lost their pension funds, or homes due to the 'housing bubble' constructed by the same entrepreneurship skills that built Enron and Wall St. can be chalked up to misfortune.

There were no entrepreneurs at Enron, do you even know the definition of the word? Enron was not a privately owned company, it was a publicly traded one, and as such, it was owned by it's investors.

It was former president Jimmy Carter's Community Redevelopment Act which set the stage for the housing and bank meltdowns. No entrepreneurs were involved. The Community Redevelopment Act was begun as a way of making it easy for the residents of poor communities to obtain loans to buy homes and property by relaxing lending standards. It was the federal government who set the guidelines, not the banks, and it was these relaxed lending standards which in the last decade allowed huge numbers of people with poor credit to buy homes which they couldn't afford. Another proven example of the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions".

Please don't comment unless you have a clue as to what you are talking about.

As for pensions, if you aren't saving your own money for retirement, you are a fool. The news yesterday is that the Social Security trust fund will be depleted by 2037. That's right folks, for those of you in America who are getting that 15% or so extorted out of your pay each week for Social Security, you will never get it back. Of course, the same is true in Japan. According to the current formula, by the time I am ready to retire, I will only qualify about 2 man yen per month in pension benefits, which is less than what I pay into the program each month. Even if I live a long time, I will never so much as collect 1/3 back what I paid in.

But go ahead and keep putting your trust in the company you work for, or the government, see how far it gets you.

[Suki]

Why does it have to be one thing versus the other?

Everyone has a much higer chance at success if they have credentials to back-up their abilities, so I'd say study first then start whatever business you want to venture in to.

[dogsbody70]

very true Suki.

[fluffy0000]

take a chill pill.

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

There were no entrepreneurs at Enron, do you even know the definition of the word? Enron was not a privately owned company, it was a publicly traded one, and as such, it was owned by it's investors.

Websters dictionary definition of a entrepreneur
: one who organizes, manages, and assumes the risks of a business or enterprise.

Some people with far more knowledge of what Enron was than yourself would beg to differ.
Texas Monthly magazine executive editor Mimi Swartz, Enron Energy Services ex-public relations Max Eberts, stock analyst John Olson, PGE lineman Al Kaseweter, Kynikos Associates president Jim Chanos etc,..

"The only thing Enrons investors owned was 'debt and worthless paper'.
Enrons stock was a 'classic pump and dump' operation constructed by entrepreneurs from within Enron." - attorney for Enron shareholders Bill Lerach.

"Only a select few of Enrons executives not the investors were privileged about how Enron was run. Complete with offshore
banking accounts and 2 sets of accounting books basically described 'entrepreneurship' at Enron."
- ex-Enron accountant John Beard, Enron ex-traders Colin Whitehead and Charles Wickman,

"How would investors own anything, when Enrons accounting firm Arthur Andersen LLP -( later found guilty of criminal charges relating to the firm's handling of the auditing of Enron) was helping to 'cook' the books.
Enron used a method of accounting that was called 'market to market' accounting which was about as accurate as 'magic'."
Enron could not even produce a balance sheet or a cash flow statement with it's quarterly financial statements.

-excerpt Mar 5, 2001 Fortune Magazine article FORTUNE's Bethany McLean asked whether a company that traded at 55 times earnings should be so opaque?

No. Enron as a public company was not owned by it's investors? As you so described? Investors are not guaranteed control or ownership of either a public or private company.

If Enron investors had owned Enron - tell that to Enron shareholders attorney Bill Lerach who represented a group of securities class-action lawsuits the largest in U.S. history. About 75% of the class action suits filed and led by Lerach involved insider trading, stock fraud and stock manipulation by Enron and it's entrepeneurs.

So much for what investors at Enron owned or knew is again immaterial.

SEC definition of public and private company-
A public company is developed by investors under the sanctions of the security exchange commission, and a private corporation is a business established by a person's with no public offering to join as investors.

It's not like Enron lacked 'entrepreneurship' skills before becoming the "most admired" corporation by Fortune magazine for the six years running.
Former Enron Oil Corp. President Louis Borget as early as 2000' had already plead guilty to a number of felonies. Borget would later spend one year in jail for the misuse of his 'entrepreneurship skills'.

Jan 9,2002 - The US Justice Department confirmed it has begun a criminal investigation of Enron which followed these entrepeneurs at Enron.

Oct. 31, 2002 -- Andrew Fastow chief financial officer of Enron Corporation
indicted on 78 charges of conspiracy, fraud, money laundering and other counts.

March 14, 2002 -- Former Enron auditor Arthur Andersen LLP indicted for obstruction of justice for destroying tons of Enron-related documents as the SEC began investigating the energy company's finances in October 2001.

May 1, 2003 -- Andrew Fastow's wife, Lea, and seven former Enron executives charged. Lea Fastow is charged with conspiracy and filing false tax forms for allegedly participating in some of her husband's deals. Former Enron treasurer Ben Glisan Jr. and midlevel executive Dan Boyle also charged for allegedly participating in Fastow-run schemes.

Please keep commenting on Enron, because you* know more than the people who actually worked there, dude.