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cranks (Offline)
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10-12-2010, 04:35 PM

35,000? Last I heard, it was more like 1500. What's the source?
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10-12-2010, 10:21 PM

"On August 15, 1995, the fiftieth anniversary of the Surrender of Japan, the Japanese prime minister Tomiichi Murayama gave the first clear and formal apology for Japanese actions during the war. He apologized for Japan's wrongful aggression and the great suffering that it inflicted in Asia. He offered his heartfelt apology to all survivors and to the relatives and friends of the victims. That day, the prime minister and the Japanese Emperor Akihito pronounced statements of mourning at Tokyo's Nippon Budokan. The emperor offered his condolences and expressed the hope that such atrocities would never be repeated. Iris Chang, author of The Rape of Nanking, criticized Murayama for not providing the written apology that had been expected. She said that the people of China "don't believe that an... unequivocal and sincere apology has ever been made by Japan to China" and that a written apology from Japan would send a better message to the international community." - Wikipedia, see also "I'm Sorry?" PBS NewsHour (1998)

Technically, the Japanese Prime Minister did give a formal, spoken apology. However, the global community does not buy it--personally, I don't think the Japanese government has completely learned its lesson because of a more recent article: "China Says Japanese Textbooks Distort History"

History is written by the conquerors, my professors say, and I am beginning to believe that every country is guilty of distorting history. Who really wants to remember the gory details? What country would admit to their atrocities completely? And personally, I threw up in my World History class when we learned about the Rape of Nanking, same as the Holocaust, and the two World Wars--It's horrible! Yes, it's important to learn from our history, but being forced to learn every gory fact...it's torture.


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cranks (Offline)
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10-13-2010, 02:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuRaSaKiiNkI;832671"China Says Japanese Textbooks Distort History"[/URL
[/b]

History is written by the conquerors, my professors say, and I am beginning to believe that every country is guilty of distorting history. Who really wants to remember the gory details? What country would admit to their atrocities completely? And personally, I threw up in my World History class when we learned about the Rape of Nanking, same as the Holocaust, and the two World Wars--It's horrible! Yes, it's important to learn from our history, but being forced to learn every gory fact...it's torture.
Yup. History is written by the winner, and China is the winner of WW2. Also, if you truely believe China's democracy and it's freedom of speech is anything comparable to today's Japanese's, I think you should think twice. In any case, I don't think you should base your opinion on Iris Chang's book as it contains many notions even Chinese scholars in People's Republic of China don't support.

Last edited by cranks : 10-13-2010 at 04:01 AM.
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10-13-2010, 02:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuRaSaKiiNkI View Post
"On August 15, 1995, the fiftieth anniversary of the Surrender of Japan, the Japanese prime minister Tomiichi Murayama gave the first clear and formal apology for Japanese actions during the war. He apologized for Japan's wrongful aggression and the great suffering that it inflicted in Asia. He offered his heartfelt apology to all survivors and to the relatives and friends of the victims. That day, the prime minister and the Japanese Emperor Akihito pronounced statements of mourning at Tokyo's Nippon Budokan. The emperor offered his condolences and expressed the hope that such atrocities would never be repeated. Iris Chang, author of The Rape of Nanking, criticized Murayama for not providing the written apology that had been expected. She said that the people of China "don't believe that an... unequivocal and sincere apology has ever been made by Japan to China" and that a written apology from Japan would send a better message to the international community." - Wikipedia, see also "I'm Sorry?" PBS NewsHour (1998)

Technically, the Japanese Prime Minister did give a formal, spoken apology. However, the global community does not buy it--personally, I don't think the Japanese government has completely learned its lesson because of a more recent article: "China Says Japanese Textbooks Distort History"

History is written by the conquerors, my professors say, and I am beginning to believe that every country is guilty of distorting history. Who really wants to remember the gory details? What country would admit to their atrocities completely? And personally, I threw up in my World History class when we learned about the Rape of Nanking, same as the Holocaust, and the two World Wars--It's horrible! Yes, it's important to learn from our history, but being forced to learn every gory fact...it's torture.
The textbook controversy is bogus.

The fact is that most textbooks in Japan are historically accurate and differ a little perhaps because the curricullum is different.

There was a controversy when the right started approving revisionist textbooks. But these textbooks make up such a small portion of the textbooks that are out there.

Furthermore most schools rejected these textbooks.

China and Korea however overreacted.

And I find it funny that people complain about the difference between a written apology and a spoken one.

I've never heard that complaint.

What you will never hear from Chinese and Koreans is acknowledgement that Japan to this day has given both countries billions of dollars in aid since the end of WW2.

If Japan should have to say sorry... then China and Korea should have to say thank you.

Last edited by Ronin4hire : 10-13-2010 at 02:59 AM.
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cranks (Offline)
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10-13-2010, 03:58 AM

The list of official apologies by the prime ministers and emperors of Japan.
List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not just words. ODA to China by Japan totals to 6 trilion US dollars (6兆円).
政府開発援助 - Wikipedia
Admittedly, most of it is no or very low interest loans and not donation, but a lot of it is still not payed off and the loans started in the 70's so it was worth a lot more than it is today.
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Polar (Offline)
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10-13-2010, 10:04 PM

Trudeau as Prime Minister of Canada made an important statement decades ago.

"We are not responsible for the sins of our forefathers"

He meant our Indigenous people but I can see his point.

Every nation in the world would still be apologizing non stop.
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10-13-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polar View Post
Trudeau as Prime Minister of Canada made an important statement decades ago.

"We are not responsible for the sins of our forefathers"

He meant our Indigenous people but I can see his point.

Every nation in the world would still be apologizing non stop.
I don't think I completely agree with the sentiment of that statement.

As long as people are hurting then apologies are necessary.

The point I was trying to make earlier is that Japan has ACTUALLY apologised and even given a lot of money to the countries it invaded during WW2.
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10-14-2010, 03:51 AM

The Kempetai where the "thought police", and they had the power of life or death over any citizen who they deemed to be "unpatriotic". They were also the chief inquisitors and torturers of the IJA, and many civilians and allied prisoners of war were "questioned" by them. Although the Japanese government has apologized many times for the atrocities committed in foreign countries during the war, they have spoken very little about the atrocities committed against their own people.
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cranks (Offline)
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10-14-2010, 04:34 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sangetsu View Post
The Kempetai where the "thought police", and they had the power of life or death over any citizen who they deemed to be "unpatriotic". They were also the chief inquisitors and torturers of the IJA, and many civilians and allied prisoners of war were "questioned" by them. Although the Japanese government has apologized many times for the atrocities committed in foreign countries during the war, they have spoken very little about the atrocities committed against their own people.
Well, I asked the OP what his/her source was, because in my understanding, the number of people who died in jail as political criminal were more like 1500 not 35,000, and then he/she just shut up. I presented the list of apologies which turned out to be dozens despite the claim of some posters that Japan never apologized or only did it once, and they never came back. Now I ask you. Do you even understand what kenpeitai=憲兵隊 means? It just means military police. The United States today has 憲兵隊. What is the basis for your claim that 憲兵隊 had the power of life or death over any citizen? Please present your source. Honestly you are sounding like the people who claim the US never went to the moon and they faked the video.

Japan was not a perfect country and there were a lot of oppressions. I agree with that. But the coloreds were down right SLAVES in the states not long before WW2. I would like to know why you are so worked up with Japanese while most western countries were not that much better, if at all at least to the colored people, back then.

Britain, the United States, Portugal, Romania voted AGAINST "Racial Equality Proposal" that was presented in the League of Nations, which was the equivalent of the United Nations in the pre WW2 era. To their credit, France, Italy, Brazil, Greece, Serbia, Czechoslovakia and China voted for it, but the proposal was declined and it was still allowed to keep treating coloreds as second class citizens, if not slaves. When will the UK and the US remember that?

Last edited by cranks : 10-14-2010 at 05:33 AM.
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evanny (Offline)
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10-14-2010, 07:28 AM

i still have all my relatives alive from ww. i even have talked to my grand grand mother who was present during WW I about how it was! my grandfather was in WW II and was sent to Siberia. talked to him also about the events and how his family was shot down...
but that doesnt mean i am going to rush to mosscow or berlin to demand them an apology. i wouldnt even want it from people who have no idea about the experience of the events that took place long before they were born.
i understand that it was war and ugly stuff happened. i understand those alive want to demand something but i believe there are so few left of them that there really isnt a point. and i dont think that previous generation should burden next generation which had noting to do with the events and should let them keep a clear and open mind.
same goes for this incident.
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