Why do many japanese want to have white skin?

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Shinshiro

I haven't read through the whole discussion so sorry if I have repeated someone.

Fashion reflects culture, and it is often lead by those who are in power. For example fair skin was considered to be attractive in the West in the past because rich people, who unlike peasants did not have to work outside in the sun, had fair, white skin. Hence you see tubby (rich = eat well = tubby) white skinned women in old paintings. Now, being tanned is popular the West since rich people go on holiday abroad and get tanned, so again, fashion is lead by the rich and powerful.

So, getting back to the topic, most non western countries (from India to Japan) prefer white skin because frankly, white people from the west represent the rich and powerful right now. Also in Japan, being demure and frail (for women) is still considered attractive, and a pale, fair skinned person gives off that vibe.

As a Japanese girl living in Japan, I often get “whitening lotions” as gifts and the sun cream here is like factor 5000 (ok a bit of an exaggeration there, but…)

Fair skin has been a sign of beauty in Japan long before white people even set foot there.

I have never heard someone compare India's caste system as parallel to Japan's desire for pale skin (which is hardly universal).

Unlike in India, Japanese people basically all have the same tone of skin (you do not see Japanese people with naturally black skin).

Do you really think being demure and frail is en vogue? Japanese women are acting more powerful than ever now, and for every pale and skinny starlet there is a tanned and outspoken one.

[kireikoori]

Originally Posted by MMM

(They don't see us as pale, but as pink)

lol, I think I just lost my whitehood status.
And all my life I thought I was white.

So what am I now?

It's true though, we aren't always paler than asians.
It's our pink skin that sets us apart.

Oh and since race doesn't exist, nationality is surely close enough to be considered race too.

Didn't I post in this thread before? I looked but I don't see it. That's weird.
Maybe I just meant to post in it.

[Shinshiro]

Originally Posted by MMM

Fair skin has been a sign of beauty in Japan long before white people even set foot there.

I have never heard someone compare India's caste system as parallel to Japan's desire for pale skin (which is hardly universal).

Unlike in India, Japanese people basically all have the same tone of skin (you do not see Japanese people with naturally black skin).

Do you really think being demure and frail is en vogue? Japanese women are acting more powerful than ever now, and for every pale and skinny starlet there is a tanned and outspoken one.

I always thought the white skin obsession had to do with the 欧米complex Japanese people seem to foster. And my point on India was based on what I heard from my Middle Eastern friend, so I guess I had no right to refer to that when I don’t actually know much about the situation there.
However I do stand by my comment on demure and frail women being an ideal in Japan. I appreciate you pointing out that strong women in Japan are growing in numbers, however I still think that acting “weak” so to speak gets you a long way if you’re a girl in Japan. In a male dominated environment anyway. Perhaps I am being pessimistic about the sexual discrimination situation in Japan.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Shinshiro

I always thought the white skin obsession had to do with the 欧米complex Japanese people seem to foster. And my point on India was based on what I heard from my Middle Eastern friend, so I guess I had no right to refer to that when I don’t actually know much about the situation there.
However I do stand by my comment on demure and frail women being an ideal in Japan. I appreciate you pointing out that strong women in Japan are growing in numbers, however I still think that acting “weak” so to speak gets you a long way if you’re a girl in Japan. In a male dominated environment anyway. Perhaps I am being pessimistic about the sexual discrimination situation in Japan.

Are you Japanese?

Demure might be "ideal" in courting, but Japanese women run households and raise children, so "demure" and "frail" only has so much value.

Acting "cute" gets you attention. Acting "weak" does too. But those aren't the women that men want to marry. Those are just for fun.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by MMM

You can say Japan is just a "nation" but I doubt a lot of Japanese would agree. It's like saying Judiasm is only a religion. Is there not a Jewish race? In my experience many, (not all, of course) Japanese see Japan as Japan. An island in the Pacific Ocean. You can bet your bottom dollar they don't see their bloodlines as the same as that of the surrounding Asian countries.

I think you missed the point of my post. Tenchu was trying to apply an incorrect definition to race. I was simply telling him what the correct technical terms and definitions are.

Quite simply race does not exist objectively. Nowhere in biology, anthropology, politics etc is there an OBJECTIVE definition. Tenchu trying to define it as such is incorrect.

It DOES exist as an (outdated) social construct perpetuated by nationalism amongst other things, which implies some sort of unique "spirit" or "geneology" (as you have correctly illustrated with your example of the common perception amongst Japanese as to their uniqueness). However the reality is that culturally the Japanese as a NATION are as unique as every other nation and genetically they are not special and have in fact more in common with the rest of humanity, especially their immediate neighbours.

And I'm glad you brought up Jewish people. Jews see themselves as unique. Culturally and historically I'm inclined to agree as I would with the Japanese. However that would make them a nation. The popular mythical belief amongst many Jews in themselves as a race probably stems from the religion of Judaism which is possibly why it is intertwined with Jewish identity to form the socially constructed "Jewish race".

[Hip]

Originally Posted by Shinshiro

I always thought the white skin obsession had to do with the 欧米complex Japanese people seem to foster. And my point on India was based on what I heard from my Middle Eastern friend, so I guess I had no right to refer to that when I don’t actually know much about the situation there.
However I do stand by my comment on demure and frail women being an ideal in Japan. I appreciate you pointing out that strong women in Japan are growing in numbers, however I still think that acting “weak” so to speak gets you a long way if you’re a girl in Japan. In a male dominated environment anyway. Perhaps I am being pessimistic about the sexual discrimination situation in Japan.

I'm not sure how sexual discrimination is in Japan. From what I was told(I could've been given the wrong info) it's similar to the 'old America", Where the men work for the bills and food..And the women are housewives and tend to what needs done for their families.

Now, I am not sexist but I personally don't see a problem with that. If that system works and the women don't mind not having to have a job and just looking after the house and their kids, so be it. But like America, the Japanese women are starting to come out of their hiding place and run along side of the men instead of waiting on the sidelines to wipe their asses(good for them ^-^). I believe this is becoming more apparent in more places then just Asia and North America, though. Europe has seen this wayyy before the Americans. And if you disagree...Just remember who ran/runs England.

I personally HATE when girls try to act cute and bubbley...It's rather annoying and unamusing. I don't see anything sexy or attractive in a woman who isn't independent in her own ways and strong minded. I don't care how cutesy or petite you look and act.

Do women not see that as tasteless, discraceful and demeaning to play the "I'm pathetic' game to get ahead in life? I mean c'mon...Ew. That's asking to be treated like crap.

But that's just my opinion

[kireikoori]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

What idiot came up with the idea of 'pink' skin? It is not exactly white, but it is closer white than pink.... silly...

Well...my skin isn't very white or pink...but I'm a white person.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Okay then, what is your word for an isolated breeding group which has formed its own special traits that differ from those formed by people the world across?

You are being an idiot. Yes, there are many races. Race includes things like nation, skin color, facial features, religion, tradition, so on. It may include a single of these things or multiple, but that is what the word is.

Dont be dumb.

Special traits? What are these "special traits" you allude to? If you are talking about cultural, historical or language then I already covered this when I gave you the correct term to apply to this (nation).

If you are talking genetic or biological... well that is the outdated part I was referring to. There are regional genetic tendencies but they are vast (i.e. continental) and not consistent. I would really love to go into more detail here but my field is not biology/medicine/genetics. The conclusions they come to concerning race are relevant to my field of study however.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Are you serious?

Stop blowing wind up your own ass. If this is some stupid attempt to try and claim your Japanese, not Wapanese, then it aint working.

People are divided by a million things. Nation, language, history, tradition and culture, skin color, it goes on. This is a race. Now fuck off.

You know... saying doesn't make it so.

I've made my point.

Why don't you grow up and learn to have a civilised discussion dickcheese.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tenchu

Seriously, stop. This is not a matter of opinion, it is well known when you arrive in Asia why tanned people are disliked. It is social discrimination against people who have had to work hard jobs to earn little money; the tan on the skin is proof of their hours spent in labour in rice fields, and is therefor 'not cool' to be seen hanging out with these people. End uv story.

Asia is a big place, Tenchu. That isn't true in every country or community.