How Difficult is it to learn the language?

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Khengi

The Japanese woman who I teach students alongside with (native from Kansai, frequently talks to be in 関西弁), brought in various recorded tapes of Japanese game shows for practice. Upon asking why there were Japanese subs used on a Japanese show, she responded, "Sometimes the people are misunderstood when speaking, and Kanji is added on screen to show the differentiation between words and phrases", and I'm not paraphrasing.

A lot of it isn`t necessarily to differentiate what they are saying, but to add emphasis for entertainment value. If you pay attention, a lot of what is written isn`t even what is said - it`s for entertainment. Occasionally you will see actual subtitles for comprehension, but those are on the news. You won`t find them on a game show.

These are all the readings of the single Kanji 明.

So, "あ" and name readings. That doesn`t add up to as many as you seem to think. Names are exceptions - you can stick pretty much any pronunciation on as you like when it`s a name.

[Khengi]

So, "あ" and name readings. That doesn`t add up to as many as you seem to think. Names are exceptions - you can stick pretty much any pronunciation on as you like when it`s a name.

But what about the readings for 日?

あ あき いる く くさ こう す たち に にっ につ へ

What about the 上?

ジョウ ショウ シャン
うえ -うえ うわ- かみ あ.げる -あ.げる あ.がる -あ.がる あ.がり -あ.がり のぼ.る のぼ.り のぼ.せる のぼ.す よ.す

(And if you count the 名乗り): あおい あげ い か かき かず かん こう のぼり ほつ

Obviously, these readings are on a context basis, but I just wanted to prove that there were Kanji with many readings.　Most of the time (and more than likely you already know this), a Kanji's official readings are influenced by how often exception are used and such (I don't really know how to explain it). I remember hearing my teacher tell me that a Kanji received a new reading based on slang. When you go by that standard, a Kanji can get many readings.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Khengi

Obviously, these readings are on a context basis, but I just wanted to prove that there were Kanji with many readings.　Most of the time (and more than likely you already know this), a Kanji's official readings are influenced by how often exception are used and such (I don't really know how to explain it). I remember hearing my teacher tell me that a Kanji received a new reading based on slang. When you go by that standard, a Kanji can get many readings.

I never meant to imply that kanji never had multiple readings... The thing is, there are very few with multiple readings that are in everyday use to the point of being easily mistaken. Even with your example of 上, you really don`t have that many once you ignore the ones with the addition of kana. Calling 明 a doozy struck me as very odd as it has relatively few readings if you ignore names (make that 2? あ and あか...)
You seem to be considering every possible reading as on the same level, where in reality 99% of the time something is read one or two ways - with the others being very very rare readings. Dictionaries make things appear more daunting than they are in reality.

[Khengi]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

I never meant to imply that kanji never had multiple readings... The thing is, there are very few with multiple readings that are in everyday use to the point of being easily mistaken. Even with your example of 上, you really don`t have that many once you ignore the ones with the addition of kana. Calling 明 a doozy struck me as very odd as it has relatively few readings if you ignore names (make that 2? あ and あか...)
You seem to be considering every possible reading as on the same level, where in reality 99% of the time something is read one or two ways - with the others being very very rare readings. Dictionaries make things appear more daunting than they are in reality.

Ah, I see. I was merely implying that same thing. I think this whole Kanji thing ended up a misunderstanding, I was still referring to learning Kanji, and how all the readings you see will be a doozy, when in reality it's all on a context basis.

Ah, crap, now I've gone and made it seem like every reading is relevant, haha. Sorry about that.

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Khengi

Ah, I see. I was merely implying that same thing. I think this whole Kanji thing ended up a misunderstanding, I was still referring to learning Kanji, and how all the readings you see will be a doozy, when in reality it's all on a context basis.

Ah, crap, now I've gone and made it seem like every reading is relevant, haha. Sorry about that.

No problem. You seemed to be making a mistake a lot of learners do - looking in the dictionary and getting a shock from all the possible minor meanings/readings/etc.
It`s really not that bad is what I am trying to say.

[hennaz]

There are 3 categories of "mainstream" languages taught, category 1 having the easiest languages for an English-speaker to learn, category 3 having the hardest.
Category 1 includes: Afrikaans, Danish, Dutch, French, Italian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish and Swedish. They have more similarities to English, and take about 24 weeks (600 class hours) to gain at least some proficiency. The hardest languages of this category are German, Indonesian, Malay and Swahili, and may take up to 36 weeks.

Category 2 includes: Albanian, Armenian, Azeri, Bengali, Bulgarian, Czech, Finnish, Greek, Hebrew, Hindi, Hungarian, Icelandic, Latvian, Lithuanian, Mongolian, Persian, Polish, Russian, Serbian, Tagalog, Thai, Turkish, Ukrainian, Urdu and Vietnamese. These have significant linguistic and/or cultural differences from English, and 44 weeks of learning are needed for any proficiency.

Category 3 includes: Arabic, Chinese (Mandarin/Cantonese), Japanese and Korean. They are considered highly difficult for speakers of Western languages to learn, and may take up to 88 weeks for basic proficiency (preferably half the time spent studying in the country which speaks that language).
Don't let this discourage you. If you want to learn Japanese, go for it! Yes there are difficulties, but the grammar and conjugations aren't as hard as say, French, because unlike French, there are no genders, only 2 irregular verbs (suru and kuru) and no imperfect/subjunctive/pluperfect etc. I don't know whether the kanji or the completely-alien vocabulary is the hardest part. In any case, Japanese is certainly not impossible to learn.

[sardO]

Thanks for the very useful responses! So far, based on the reponses I've gotten, I'm leaning towards not taking Japanese as a university course because I don't want to jeopardize my average. I might do well, but the possibility that it is very difficult and I don't succeed is enough for me to not take it. I can always learn the language if I want to in a class outside of university. Thanks for making my decision easier.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by Khengi

These are all the readings of the single Kanji 明.

あ.かり あか.るい あか.るむ あか.らむ あき.らか あ.ける -あ.け あ.く あ.くる あ.かす
あきら あけ あす きら け さや さやか とし はる み め

The only readings you've posted there are
あ
あか
あき
あきら
あけ
あす
きら
け
さや
さやか
とし
はる
み
め
And of those, it's cheating to include name readings. So really, you're left with あ、あか、あき、あきら、あけ、and that's it. The あす reading is when you combine it with 日, so it's not really あす but あ.

In any case, that's still just one kanji. Most kanji have one or two Sinojaponic readings and one or two Japonic readings at most. Many don't have a single Japonic reading.

Edit I see we agree, though, so never mind

Also, for SardO, you realize everyone will be in the same boat as you, right? It's not like you're the only one who will have a hard time. I hardly ever studied in my Japanese class and I never go anything other than an A. It's not like you're expected to gain fluency in a year!

Also, you'll never, ever have a better chance to learn a language once you graduate from university. As you get older, learning languages becomes even more difficult, not only from a time standpoint, but because your brain settles in and cannot learn new languages nearly as well. In fact, college age really is too old, but 18-19 is still early enough for some people to get enough to keep the window of opportunity open.

Learning a second language at 25 or older means you'll likely never succeed unless you're one of the very lucky ones. Or if you move abroad for a long time.

[Khengi]

Huh? Ahh, sorry, just look a few posts above. We resolved it *sweat*

[sardO]

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz

Also, for SardO, you realize everyone will be in the same boat as you, right? It's not like you're the only one who will have a hard time. I hardly ever studied in my Japanese class and I never go anything other than an A. It's not like you're expected to gain fluency in a year!

Also, you'll never, ever have a better chance to learn a language once you graduate from university. As you get older, learning languages becomes even more difficult, not only from a time standpoint, but because your brain settles in and cannot learn new languages nearly as well. In fact, college age really is too old, but 18-19 is still early enough for some people to get enough to keep the window of opportunity open.

Learning a second language at 25 or older means you'll likely never succeed unless you're one of the very lucky ones. Or if you move abroad for a long time.

I don't expect fluency in a year, but I don't want to struggle with the course and risk a low mark. Sure everyone will be in the same boat but that doesn't comfort me in any way. Ya, this is probably my best and will probably be my only opportunity to learn Japanese, but I'm still leaning towards not taking it for two reasons: if I don't end up studying abroad, taking Japanese will have been a waste and the risk of a low mark.