Why do you think Japanese is so hard for people?

[Khengi]

When I first started Japanese around 2 years ago, the problems I ran into were not sentence order (I got used to putting verbs towards the end quickly). It wasn't verb conjugation (it's actually easier than English), nor was it the Kanji, phonetics, or vocabulary.

I think it was just how different it was. A language where saying 'I'll call you (on the phone)' is translated with the words for 'phone' and then 'do.'

I'll call you -
電話をする。 (do (the) phone)

While this is obviously a literal translation, it was what confused me the most, as I learned that I could not simply take words and mix and match them to make a custom Japanese sentence, nor would a translator work. In fact, there are no shortcuts and instead you just have to bite your lip and learn it all.

A language where particles are taught with one meaning, but can have so many other meanings (mind you, this topic is referring to when I first started, meaning most of what I write now is behind me). Even my signature is riddled with mistakes and I'm not sure where they are are or how to fix them. Sure, I know an unnatural amount of Kanji for someone who's practiced for less than 2 years (nearly 4,200 Kanji - by 'knowing' them I mean I can identify what their base meaning is instantly, though my vocab count is a low, low 2,200), but that does not gauge my grammatical skill. A language where our precious pronouns are considered redundant (saying 'I' and 'you' and 'they' and even the subject of the sentence is redundant if known from context. While we do this in English as well, it's considered slang in a sense. In Japanese, it's standard for sounding natural).

The biggest problem in learning Japanese is because how vastly, insurmountably DIFFERENT it is. It's just not like English in any way, and very rarely will I see a coincidence that both Japanese and English share. A language where 同じ can be used as an adjective, and where 好き is taught to new students as if it was a verb (which I never liked). In all honesty, it would be better to isolate oneself in a box with Japanese radio, TV, music and nothing but books and study until you forget your native language. And if English is your native language, then you WANT to forget it, as the exceptions and oddities found in Japanese are light compared to English.

We learn Spanish and French so quickly, but struggle with Asian languages that have no grammatical foundation that adheres to our own. Is that not interesting? Do the Japanese find Korean to be an easy second language, but English to be nearly impossible? I wonder these questions and will ask a native when I get the chance.

What is it that you feel is the gap between English and Japanese, the philosophical and (practical) linguistic differences we share?

Please discuss, I truly desire people proficient in the language more than anything, but I do not discriminate against anyone who has a thought on this subject.

[Yuukigami]

Kanji is a difficult aspect of Japanese at first, yes, but after a while I think that learning new characters becomes really simple. To be frank the hardest part of Japanese is the aspect that most people say is the easiest part, grammar. Textbook grammar IS very simple and easy to comprehend but when you really get into REAL Japanese it can be extremely overwhelming. But you just have to get used to patterns and the way that Japanese people think. And if you analyze a sentence or phrase too much you just confuse yourself more, this happened to me.

Another thing that Japanese learners tend to do is translate everything into English. In my opinion, this is one of the worst things to do (except in the very beginning with sentences like 私は～です）. The reason being that it becomes even more frustrating and confusing. If you are to translate into English at all, you should ALWAYS translate literally in order to get the feel of the Japanese way of thought. For example, こんな所にいた事があるような気がした。would translate literally as "The feeling that is the appearance that the event in which (I) existed in this kind of place did". Now to a beginner this would make absolutely no sense but to more advanced learners this makes perfect sense, right?

That is just some of the reasons why Japanese is hard for people, I think. But after a while in the "real" Japanese world it really isn't that hard and it becomes second nature.

[liquidfreedom88]

made me shiver for a while... but i must make it anyway

[Nyororin]

Originally Posted by Yuukigami

For example, こんな所にいた事があるような気がした。would translate literally as "The feeling that is the appearance that the event in which (I) existed in this kind of place did". Now to a beginner this would make absolutely no sense but to more advanced learners this make perfect sense, right?

It still makes no sense to be translated in that way.
I say that it is much better - if you feel you need to translate - to translate into proper English. Translating literally from Japanese to English is really no better than translating English to Japanese literally... You`re going to end up with a confusing mess.
I feel it`s much better to aim for something that does make sense so that you can mesh the feeling and actual meaning in your mind with something similar in your native language. (Not the words themselves...)

[Yuukigami]

Originally Posted by Nyororin

It still makes no sense to be translated in that way.
I say that it is much better - if you feel you need to translate - to translate into proper English. Translating literally from Japanese to English is really no better than translating English to Japanese literally... You`re going to end up with a confusing mess.
I feel it`s much better to aim for something that does make sense so that you can mesh the feeling and actual meaning in your mind with something similar in your native language. (Not the words themselves...)

Well yes that example was a bad one. Maybe not that literally but still I feel it is better to make sure you understand the sentence or phrase...but still literally works at least for me because you understand the Japanese way of thought better. A better example would just be こんな所にいたことはない, "The event in which I existed in this type of place doesn't exist." I think that makes sense...it's not proper English but you can understand the Japanese way of thought. Personally I like this way but, honestly, I can't remember the last time I typed out a translation for a sentence. When I see a sentence I just make sure I understand it, I don't worry about the English.

[kirakira]

Originally Posted by Yuukigami

Well yes that example was a bad one. Maybe not that literally but still I feel it is better to make sure you understand the sentence or phrase...but still literally works at least for me

I think you will be one of the minorities because you shouldn't translating is only strictly for beginners and you should get off the habit as fast as you can.

You have to think differently when speaking a different language, not just the word order. Also, taking the meaning directly will always be faster than listening, translating, rearranging etc. etc.. Not to mention some things cannot be translated one-to-one.

In general, translate to get an understanding of basic words and phrases at first, drop it as soon as you have enough grammar and vocab. Any attempt to keep the translation habit for too long will end in tears.

[Khengi]

When translating something from English to Japanese, don't try to turn English into Japanese, but find the Japanese equivelent (which requires more studying, or course, as that can only be achieved through either immersion of insurmountable hours of practice).

For example, instead of translating "Oh my God!" to 俺の神！, you would say a slew of other things: "まったく、やれやれ、くそっ、なんぞ・・・", because 俺の神 may make sense to you, but is utter nonsense.

[Yuukigami]

Originally Posted by kirakira

I think you will be one of the minorities because you shouldn't translating is only strictly for beginners and you should get off the habit as fast as you can.

You have to think differently when speaking a different language, not just the word order. Also, taking the meaning directly will always be faster than listening, translating, rearranging etc. etc.. Not to mention some things cannot be translated one-to-one.

In general, translate to get an understanding of basic words and phrases at first, drop it as soon as you have enough grammar and vocab. Any attempt to keep the translation habit for too long will end in tears.

That's why I said I can't remember the last time I translated a sentence and I also said in the other post that if you HAVE to translate to English literally is better. I do agree that translating is a horrible thing to do either way. And when people claim "I will learn japanesessse fromsz ANIMESSS!! with eng subbs!"...I loose it. I love having movies and dramas with Japanese subs...but those are so hard to find.

[SSJup81]

My problem is Kanji and mixing up some grammar rules. I still have a tough time remembering them, but I'm sure I can learn it as soon as I start going through my Kanji book for practice. Right now, I'm studying for my Praxis I test, and since math is a weakness for me, especially since I haven't dealt with Algebra or Geometry (or any math aside from basic) fully since I was in college years ago. When transferring and finishing up recently, I already had my math requirement cause of the Calc/Trig. I'm pretty much giving that my full attention.

I also have a little bit of trouble with "ni" and "de" and remembering how to write in "plain" form or speak in plain form. I have this habit of doing everything polite (masu, masen, etc.)

[Khengi]

The thing with Kanji is we're not native to Japan, so we haven't had the Kanji tests and calligraphy tests since Kindergarden that they have, so we won't be as proficient as them. Instead, you should learn Kanji in the context of words.