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Your thoughts on self study -
07-29-2009, 02:11 PM
Howdy there.
I've been a Japanese culture fan for let's say 10 years now give or take. Never really thought about learning the language because it seemed so strange an foreign to my own native tongue that I already gave up hope on it before I even began. Just a few months back though I started to plan a trip to Japan by the end of 2010 and it got me real excited about learning the language. How do you guys go about learning your Japanese? I read that a whole lot of you guys just go to school and practice it the "old fashioned way". I have been trying the self study way for these past few months and I must say it's very hard but also I make great progress understanding the language. I use a combination of multiple self study courses at the same time. I also try to immerse myself as much as is possible in order to hear the language as much as I can. What worked best for you guys? I also seriously consider driving 100 miles once a week to a tutor in order to increase the speed of my Japanese intake. Maybe you guys have some tips for me? I already completed the following: - Kana studies (getting my "Remembering the Kanji I" book soon!) - Pimsleurs I and II (III in progress) - Rosetta stone Japanese I (starting II as soon as the CD arrives) 
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07-29-2009, 02:31 PM
Howdy, Xentron! Welcome to the forum
 Alright, starting from the bottom up. Get Genki. Genki I and Genki II. These are the best textbooks you'll ever read. It helps to get the workbooks, too. I went to the university that wrote them (Kansai Gaidai), and I gotta tell you they're amazing. They're paperback, too, so they won't break your bank. Rosetta Stone is okay but maybe hold off on buying any more. My one buddy works for them developing the software, and they JUST finished making a brand new Rosetta Stone that he says will be revolutionary. Look forward to it! I wouldn't recommend driving 100 miles just to see a tutor. You can get the same thing via Skype! It's not worth it for gas, time, and stress of sitting still for that long. Not to mention wear and tear on your car. Get Skype, and look up some people in Japan who are looking for language exchange; there are a TON of them. This way you also get real-world Japanese experience! Immersion is good. Listen to the music and try to pick out words. Watch movies without subtitles if you can. Watch TV variety shows. Anime is pretty bad for it because the speech is very unrealistic and you won't ever hear it in person (unless it's a "realistic" anime, but those are usually animated movies). Do whatever you can! Some advice that really helped me get fluent: - Keep a notebook. Go buy a little Moleskinne and every time you hear or see a new Japanese word, WRITE IT DOWN! The Kanji, too. If you're serious about learning Japanese, you're gonna learn that word eventually anyway, right?  - Think in Japanese. As much as you can. Heck, even fill in words you know in the middle of your English thoughts. For instance, "Boy I sure would like to 食べる some すし！” Sure, the grammar is wonky, but you're slowly replacing languages inside your head, which is where the most exposure you'll get comes from. - When you get a chance to speak to a Japanese person, speak ONLY Japanese. Don't fall to the temptation to use English! I know it's hard, but がんばれ！ (Do your best!) Of course "self study" is only going to get you so far. You have to go there, there's simply no substitute. Once you land in Japan, you'll realize how bad your Japanese is and, if you care enough to, you'll adjust and soak it all in like a sponge. Improving my Japanese was my #1 priority the first time I went and I zoomed far ahead of my peers who didn't care as much. You just need to work at it. Now here's the hardest part, my friend: You need to accept that you will never reach native-speaker level. No matter how hard you study or how long you live in Japan, it will never be your first language, and you will never understand every nuance of every word. Also you might never get rid of your accent (but screw that I'm still trying! hehe). This are harsh realities and I was depressed for like three days when one of my American professors at Gaidai told me this. But it's true. You just need to get as close as you can. Here's another thing: the Japanese are very... well, I wouldn't say "Polite", but they're reserved. They'll never call you out on anything. So when you go, or when you speak to a Japanese person, you might only say "こんにちわ” before they start going nuts and singing your praises about how great you are at Japanese. I still don't really get it, and I won't get into my ideas about why they do that here, but the important part is that they will NEVER correct you. Ever. Even if you ask them to, they might do it for 5 minutes before they get unfomfortable. So you need to stay on them, ask them these major things: - "ぶんぽうあてた？” (Did I get the grammar on that?) (Casual) - "わたしのはつおんはどうですか？" (How's my pronunciation?) - "わたしのアクセントはどうですか？” (How's my accent?) Keep on them about it. They don't care because they already speak English, but you need to catch up on your にほんご！ Do your best, don't lose heart, study hard, and always remember that you CAN become fluent! PM me if you have any questions.. I'm still a learner myself and I devote a lot of time to learning how to learn! I've got books worth of mnemonics and theory on this stuff 
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07-29-2009, 03:04 PM
Thanks a lot for your reply!
I'm really wondering how they are going to improve Rosetta stone though! And I hope they do it soon, I want to learn it faster and faster! It's a shame I won't be able to get the 100% pure native accent but with practice I'll try to get as closely as possible! I already have felt a few setbacks which caused me some depressed feeling over a few days. Things tend to get pretty hard at a few points, I really had a problem with counting items in Japanese at first. That they have to describe the size of the object with the counting of that object. "Chiketto ichi mai kudasai" for instance seemed strange and weird at first. I never thought of saying "1 flat object ticket please"  But it somehow manages to stick in your brain as did the word order which is the exact opposite of what English or any other western language is. I've looked on amazon for the three volumes of Genki, they don't seem very expensive! I've ordered volume I just now for a trial run. If I like the books I'll buy them both of course. Would you know of any exchange site/forum for skype users? It seems a little "scary" though speaking to a Japanese native/student with the limited knowledge that I now possess. You're always afraid of making mistakes even though it is only natural that you do. My ultimate goal is to be able to speak and understand most Japanese by next year july. I'm not talking about being fluent or anything, just being able to make conversation on normal everyday subjects is good enough for me. It should be possible right? I see some of my friends who only study Japanese for 1 hour a week and they make great progress. Seeing that I study Japanese for over 2 hours a day I should be able to reach my goal right? Also thanks again for your tips and for the book titles! The more study material the better, I'm shredding through it at high speed at the moment 
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07-29-2009, 03:23 PM
You definitely have the right attitude, my friend! Keep at it!
Your comment about the structure being the opposite of English is a popular view, but it's not actually true! I quote Tae Kim's Guide to Japanese Grammar (http://www.guidetojapanese.org/), which is a fantastic resource: Grammatically complete and correctly ordered sentences （１） 私は公園でお弁当を食べた。(わたしはこえん おべんとをたべた） （２） 公園で私はお弁当を食べた。 （３） お弁当を私は公園で食べた。 （４） 弁当を食べた。 （５） 食べた。 So you see, as long as your particles are in the right place and the verb is correctly conjugated at the end of the sentence, you're golden! I don't know any sites for meeting Skype users, but if you go into skype, enter the Contacts menu and click "Search for Skyper Users...", you can put in your own parameters and see people's "personal ad". There are a lot of great people out there looking for language exchange, but also a lot of weirdos, so be careful. It IS scary talking live to someone you don't know in a language you also don't know so well, but that's natural. I get all ドキドキ when I call people who speak ENGLISH that I don't know! Hehe...Oh yeah, and MAKE MISTAKES! You have to. Here's why: when you make a mistake, it's really embarassing, right? Well, that embarassment sticks out in your mind and I guaruntee you will not make that mistake again. It's a VERY important part of the learning process, but like I said, just make sure they catch it and correct you, or ask after the sentence! Your ultimate goal is realistic, except for the "most Japanese" part, but you corrected yourself in the next sentence. In one year, you can DEFINITELY be conversationally fluent! You won't know EVERY grammar point and your vocab will of course need work (it always will), but by that time you can know every conjugation and have a very solid vocab base. I sucked at Japanese when I went over, and in three months I was already chatting it up with the locals pretty smoothly. If I can do that in three months, imagine yourself in a year! 2 hours a day is great if you can dedicate the time, but it's all HOW you study. If you just read the book, you'll only retain a very small amount. If you take notes, you'll retain more. If you write each kanji 100 times, you'll remember it. If you use the vocab and grammar in your own sentences, you'll internalize the theory. If you say them out loud, you'll help your pronunciation and get your mouth used to the language. If you discuss them with a native speaker, then you're really in business. So it's all about how efficiently you study! Also, worse comes to worst you can hit me up on Skype or wherever and I'll help you out.
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07-29-2009, 05:40 PM
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07-29-2009, 05:54 PM
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--Jaka  
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07-29-2009, 06:38 PM
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Wait.. what has that got to do AT ALL with the topic? Seriously. Sorry Xentron.
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07-29-2009, 06:42 PM
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07-29-2009, 06:43 PM
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--Jaka
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07-29-2009, 06:48 PM
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