Help me to understand: おやすみ vs. おやすみなさい

[RickOShay]

Argument 2 was solved a while back correct?

Argument 1 is unsolved until Robhol confirms whether he means imperative form or meaning.

And argument 3 if you want to still contest I suppose we can. I will just start asking around and report back later.

[Decimus]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

Argument 2 was solved a while back correct?

Argument 1 is unsolved until Robhol confirms whether he means imperative form or meaning.

And argument 3 if you want to still contest I suppose we can. I will just start asking around and report back later.

Argument 3: Then I'll advise asking around with the phrases 「お待ちなさい」、 「ご覧なさい」、「おいでなさい（お出でなさい）」 and 「お召しなさい」

As for the rest of the (お/ご-) Sonkeigo(尊敬語), refer to this post:

Originally Posted by chryuop

EDIT: Let me get better what I meant. Honorific and humble verbs are made adding the お to the pre ます form and なさる is the honorific form of the verb to do. Basically what you do (I hope I am not wrong) is transform the verb into a noun and then add the verb "to do". Not much different from those many verbs made of a Chinese origin kanji noun+する like 勉強する.
As per お食べください, the verb to eat in humble and honorific changes completely, that's why the example you made wouldn't work.
I hope I am not too far off

Example:
お＋座り＋なさるー＞お座りなさるー＞お座りなさい
お＋入り＋（に）＋なさるー＞お入り（に）なさるー＞ お入りなさい

(Also, to further clarify chryuop's post, the standard Sonkeigo for 「食べる」 is 「召し上がる」)

[chryuop]

Ouch....you mention my post too many times, I wouldn't like you to think I am a very reliable source LOL. My Japanese knowledge is way too poor to be a reliable source.

Anyway what I wanted to say with my post is that in my opinion it was something grammatically correct. Now, if it is used, old language or sound weird, that I don't know.
But remember that the discussion started from a set phrase. Those kinda phrases exist in every language and sometimes even to native speaker they don't make much more sense outside of that set context.
Moreover a native speaker in this forum told me how a greeting and a thanking word very much used in Japanese are Kansai dialect words, does that mean we speak kansai?
I guess your discussion should just stop to the grammar point of view. For other things either you are 100% understanding their culture or you will never fully understand it.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by Decimus

Argument 3: Then I'll advise asking around with the phrases 「お待ちなさい」、 「ご覧なさい」、「おいでなさい（お出でなさい）」 and 「お召しなさい」

As for the rest of the (お/ご-) Sonkeigo(尊敬語), refer to this post:


Example:
お＋座り＋なさるー＞お座りなさるー＞お座りなさい
お＋入り＋（に）＋なさるー＞お入り（に）なさるー＞ お入りなさい

(Also, to further clarify chryuop's post, the standard Sonkeigo for 「食べる」 is 「召し上がる」)

Actually I am going to ask around with a variety of words. I will include some of the ones you ask ie.. the ones with an お〜なさい construction. I am not contesting different varieties of keigo, I am aware of them would prefer you not try to boast your superiority (cuz that is what it seems like you are doing-sorry if i am wrong) by suggesting I read an article on honorific speech in the Japanese language. I am only interested in how people feel about the お〜なさい construction. I want to determine if my feeling about its contemporary usage is correct, (since 3 natives opinions are not enough for you). And if it is limited to only a few words, then I hardly think that warrants it a place in common language today. So I will find out. I will ask people a how they feel about a variety of words and how they feel about the お〜なさい construction overall. Fair enough?

[RickOShay]

Ok, so I only had a chance to talk to two people today. They work in the same office as me but in a different department. Not sure but they are probably in their late 40's or early 50's. My friends are in their late 20's early 30's.

They both reconfirmed what the other 3 have basically said. They said おやすみなさい is never used to have an imperative meaning.

They felt お〜なさい construction is not so common, even when mentioning some of the phrases like お待ちなさい etc. that you asked me to ask about. And while お〜なさい construction is grammatically correct with most verbs, the actual usage of such constructions is not common. They also felt that the お〜なさい construction sounds old, and of older generations.

When asked to rate the relevance of the construction in today's language on a scale of 1-10. 10 being very relevant, and 1 being not relevant, both rated it a 2 or a 3.

One of the ladies continued on with an explanation that I think makes a lot of sense. She said she feels the お〜なさい construction is, and has been fading out of the Japanese language due to the fact that people are continuing to become more and more indirect and vague in their speaking habits. And very direct phrases like お〜なさい, which stem from the era of when Japan had a much more defined level of social classes, are becoming obsolete because they do not fit well into how modern society wants to communicate.

So well there you have it I guess. Is that good enough?

[Toastyzeus]

Oh wow guys, this is a lot of information.

I would just like to reinforce that I am very poor at Japanese.

I know this isn't really what we are talking about anymore but:

My textbooks use the example "おやすみなさい" as "Good night" (as in, have a good sleep sort of thing).

However, in pop-culture I see this gesture being said in the form of "おやすみ".

So, short answer please, if I were to use this in modern life not as a command to go to sleep but as a gesture for them to "rest well" I would use "おやすみ", correct?

[Decimus]

Originally Posted by Toastyzeus

Oh wow guys, this is a lot of information.

I would just like to reinforce that I am very poor at Japanese.

I know this isn't really what we are talking about anymore but:

My textbooks use the example "おやすみなさい" as "Good night" (as in, have a good sleep sort of thing).

However, in pop-culture I see this gesture being said in the form of "おやすみ".

So, short answer please, if I were to use this in modern life not as a command to go to sleep but as a gesture for them to "rest well" I would use "おやすみ", correct?

Both mean "good night". 「おやすみ」 is less formal and hence it might be a good idea to use 「おやすみなさい」 for strangers.

Ignore the literal and/or grammatical meanings of the phrases. We were sidetracked.