Is there a way to apologize for this?

[ginam]

tenmins...i think you're on to something. luckly he's even more horrified than i am, if that is possible, so hopefully this is a lesson learned.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ginam

I am an American, but I live near a US military base, which changes everything. I know what I'm talking about. This is not a generalization about all Americans; it IS a generalization about the loud and obnoxious Americans who go into bars and other businesses around here and act like jerks. I can understand why you didn't like my comment, but understand where it's coming from. There are a lot of us try hard to be good guests here, respecting the culture, enjoying the company, food, drinks, people....but many others who spoil it. You would cringe too if you were having dinner at a small family-owned local restaurant and a pile of people who looked just like you walked in talking louder than everyone around them, letting their kids walk on tatami with dirty shoes, treating the owners rudely rudely, etc. Or if you were at a fish market, standing right in front of the owner, and another citizen of your country came up and said "EW Gross! I would never eat that!" It happens ALL OF THE TIME. You can imagine why I don't want it to happen at this place.

So sorry for sounding like an ignorant asshole. I should have made my stupid initial request even longer than it was, I guess.

You live near an American military base. So do the locals. They are used to it. Trust me.

Originally Posted by tenmins

If I were you I would make a family pact set in stone that results in divorce made effective immediately if broken, never to invite anyone, absolutely anyone to your special bar.
That would be a great way to repay the owner for any disrespect you fell you may have inadvertently caused.

This is the silliest thing I have read this week. Agree to bring only good friends and know who is coming. Your relationship with your spouse is more important than your relationship with the bar. Again, I worked at a bar in Japan for a couple years, and you see regulars come and go. Your spouse cares about you more than the bar does. Don't even joke about getting divorced over this.

Originally Posted by ginam

tenmins...i think you're on to something. luckly he's even more horrified than i am, if that is possible, so hopefully this is a lesson learned.

Stop being horrified. Watch TV and look at these people who have survived the worst earthquake/tsunami in modern history in Japan. See true stoicism and prioritizing. Really, your poor guest is down at problem number 21046 between "Does this go in burnable or non-burnable?" and "Do I take the escalator or the stairs?"

[RealJames]

Honestly if I were Japanese reading your comments Ginam I'd be so insulted.

Do you expect all Japanese people to behave the same? If one of them is a douchebag do you then superimpose that on all of them? Do you expect that Japanese people do that towards westerners?

You've got some weird shame issues towards your heritage or something that are being brought to light by this.

It's SO safe to assume that everyone in the bar saw that some of the Americans were jerks, and others were not. It's even SAFER to assume that they saw how humiliated by the former's actions you were lol.

What's the deal with all this hypersensitivity? Is this how foreigners try to adopt Japanese culture? cuz it's getting butchered lol

[tenmins]

Originally Posted by MMM

This is the silliest thing I have read this week. Agree to bring only good friends and know who is coming. Your relationship with your spouse is more important than your relationship with the bar. Again, I worked at a bar in Japan for a couple years, and you see regulars come and go. Your spouse cares about you more than the bar does. Don't even joke about getting divorced over this.

Don't take things so seriously. The point I was making is that if you have found such a place that you treasure keep it to yourself. When you want to go out with friends and friends of friends go to another place that you don't care if they're loud or not.

Originally Posted by MMM

Stop being horrified. Watch TV and look at these people who have survived the worst earthquake/tsunami in modern history in Japan. See true stoicism and prioritizing. Really, your poor guest is down at problem number 21046 between "Does this go in burnable or non-burnable?" and "Do I take the escalator or the stairs?"

Steady on mate. A lady asks for some simple advice about how to be polite and gets caned for it. What the hell is this forum for anyway if someone can't get some friendly advice about experiences they are having in Japan?

[ginam]

Originally Posted by tenmins

Don't take things so seriously. The point I was making is that if you have found such a place that you treasure keep it to yourself. When you want to go out with friends and friends of friends go to another place that you don't care if they're loud or not.



Steady on mate. A lady asks for some simple advice about how to be polite and gets caned for it. What the hell is this forum for anyway if someone can't get some friendly advice about experiences they are having in Japan?

you've made my points better than i would have. i get it that the owner knows we're not the same as that pseudo guest that was there, but i can still be embarrassed. loud is fine...jerky isn't. if james could see the stuff i see regularly, there's be a little bit less encouragement to chill out or question my own feelings about my heritage or whatever. seriously, the crap people pull around here would get their asses kicked in their own country, but they seem to think it's perfectly reasonable here, even though what they're doing isn't the norm here either. i'm not trying to assimilate (really? i'll ever blend in?), nor do i think my hosts here are fragile. i just know that we DO get viewed as a bunch of assholes because the same things happen so often.

if rude people want to find their own way into places i like, that's just the way it goes. the problem here was that it was one of us who took him there. yuck.

thanks for chiming in, tenmin...and thanks again to MMM for the tip as to what to say next time.

[RickOShay]

Originally Posted by ginam

I am an American, but I live near a US military base, which changes everything. I know what I'm talking about. This is not a generalization about all Americans; it IS a generalization about the loud and obnoxious Americans who go into bars and other businesses around here and act like jerks. I can understand why you didn't like my comment, but understand where it's coming from. There are a lot of us try hard to be good guests here, respecting the culture, enjoying the company, food, drinks, people....but many others who spoil it. You would cringe too if you were having dinner at a small family-owned local restaurant and a pile of people who looked just like you walked in talking louder than everyone around them, letting their kids walk on tatami with dirty shoes, treating the owners rudely rudely, etc. Or if you were at a fish market, standing right in front of the owner, and another citizen of your country came up and said "EW Gross! I would never eat that!" It happens ALL OF THE TIME. You can imagine why I don't want it to happen at this place.

So sorry for sounding like an ignorant asshole. I should have made my stupid initial request even longer than it was, I guess.

Well you then you should specify. I can fully imagine some of the immature military personnel, looking for an outlet from the discipline and acting like d-bags. But for other Americans who are here by choice, and are little more mature, getting throw into that category can be offensive.

[ginam]

Originally Posted by RickOShay

Well you then you should specify. I can fully imagine some of the immature military personnel, looking for an outlet from the discipline and acting like d-bags. But for other Americans who are here by choice, and are little more mature, getting throw into that category can be offensive.

Good point. I forget not everyone is surrounded by us