What is it realy like?

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

No, see, those examples specifically to show examples of "idiots in every country." I think you misread my intent there. I was showing that the Hiroshima guy and the KKK are clearly not normal individuals. So in this paragraph, at least, you and I agree, not disagree.

I didn't misread.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

Also, when the KKK accost you outside of your Catholic center while you walk into it, you're not exactly professing intentionally, are you? Of course, picking a fight with the KKK would be stupid, but you assume much by thinking that is what I did.

Sorry you were accosted.
If the KKK were not visable at the time of entry then its unavoidable.
However if they were before entering... its best just to avoid the situation and wait for authorities to clear it up.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

No, it doesn't. However, it does mean that my experience is still mine, and that anecdotal stories without additional evidence does not pass the smell test to be used to replace it. So far none of the individuals I work with have ever experienced the kind of situations above described. Some of them have been here for ten years. They own homes and businesses. They have Japanese credit cards. I have seen their stories in person. Been to their businesses, visited in their homes, watched them use their credit cards.

Great.. they have credit cards and you've seen them use the credit cards... well I guess it never happens. Sorry my mistake.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>I hear and read a lot of these anecdotes, but after my "short" time in Japan, I think they >are caused by individual idiocy, and not some overarching conspiracy to "get" individuals >of different nationalities or ethnicity. To put it bluntly, I think it's a bunch of malarky.

keep dreaming.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>Uhm. What? I can't follow this.

>Let me break down what I was saying. I'm not a "foreigner" in Texas, but when I go to >NYC or LA, I sure as hell am. Not legally, but my point here is that "legality" is not the >issue. I feel more out of place, not to mention less safe, and get treated worse when I am >in those cities than I do by Japanese even in big Japanese cities, let alone Fukuchiyama.

Because you feel out of place in a different state doesn't mean you are being descriminated because of you race ...

Well DUh... If you compare rural Kyoto to LA or NYC yeah its going to be less safe...
I feel safer in NYC compared to IRAQ. Japan is known for being pound for pounder safer... that is not what is in debate here.

What is this "treated worse" you write about in LA and NYC?

Everyone feels out of place outside of familar setting.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>I did not say I was treated differently in the US because race, rather I said that I was >treated badly because of social issues, religion, politics, philosophy.

If you don't think this is an issue too in Japan... look around a bit more. Being your age and time there you probably don't see it yet...

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>Whereas, I am not >treated badly because of race in Japan. In fact, the only "racism" I >experience in Japan is >the patronising kind: the assumption I am a tourist or the >assumption that I don't speak >Japanese. This is, however, ONLY in tourist spots. This >certainly never happens in >Fukuchiyama. It isn't a tourist spot, so if you are not >ethnically Japanese, then you are >obviously a resident, and you are expected to know >Japanese. As well you should be, in >my opinion.

Thats a nice little formula.... let me know when the flaws and exception in it start to creep in.
Wish it was true myself.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>Really? Because most of these anecdotes from Westeners seems to suggest that >Japanese people are racist, nationalist, or xenophobic. Or some combination of all three. >Frankly, I just don't see it. I wouldn't say the US is xenophobic. The idea of a country built >out of immigrants as xenophobic is hilarious. Racism and nationalism are still issues, as >the Gates/Crowley/Obama/Barrett issue shows in regards to race.
>Again, I am going to say here that my experiences have been quite different.

Because one has not experienced doesn't mean they don't exist.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>This is not something I need to imagine, because my grandfather held Pearl Harbor >against the Japanese until his death. The family wouldn't let me tell him I spoke Japanese >or was interested in Japanese culture. He was as irrationally angry as Hiroshima Guy was,

We have somthing in common - grandfather / grandmother wise.
Thats sad that you couldn't tell him your feeling on modern Japan. Frankly it got my grandmother to change her opinion. My Grandfather passed well before I ever got involved in Japan.

I can't say our grandfather's anger was irrational. Frankly they have the right to be angry and it is NOT wrong to be angry about it. The same for the bombing in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But I understand what you are conveying: The Americans and Japanese that follow their Generation have nothing to do the actions of their ancestors.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>and there were several issues in regards to other matters, where I did need to apologise >for his behavior (an example where he called a few African-American children "damn >colored kids").

Colored kids was a common non-diragetory term for his generation. If he chose to continue to use it knowing that its not acceptable today that is his burdon to take on, not yours...

stop appologizing.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>These are far different situations than the very boisterous democracy in Japan, LDP, DPJ, >SPJ, and CPJ are very politically different, and you should see them go during election >season. There are rules, and as long as you follow the rules of discourse, your views will >be taken seriously, or at least, you will be allowed to safely express our views. Religiously >as well, I see Jehovah's witnesses and Mormons, along with Japanese religious groups, >get far better welcomes at doors than they do in the US.

Again... apples to oranges..

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>And I am saying that while I agree with you, I do not agree with you to the extent these >anecdotes suggest. Or rather, I don't agree it is malicious, or cause for concern, or not >flatly ignorable. I just don't see the problem.

Fine... you don't see any problems.. great they don't exist.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>Frankly, what I am saying is that I believe that myths and stereotypes about Japan are >propagated, and are much more harmful than the myths and stereotypes propagated >about Americans: in my experience the Japanese believe Americans eat hamburgers >daily, are cowboys, and all own mansions. Americans believe Japanese are quiet, >conservative, studious, alike, insular, and xenophobic. Both are equally wrong, but the >latter is far more insidious than the former.

Geez are you reading from a 1979 edition of American and Japan. No one believes that anymore

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>If you think the Japanese have issues expressing themselves, you should meet my >students. Self-expression is definitely not an issue they have, and I encourage it, and >Japanese teachers are getting much better about working with non-Japanese teachers to >encourage students.

Its not children that have troubel expressing ideas for god sake, its the inability of adults in daily japanese society. Society prevents adults from radically expressing ideas with out falling out of different facets of japanese circles/groups.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

>As another example, Kyoto is offering non-Japanese teachers three year temporary >teaching licenses while they pass JLPT 2 and take a few education courses in Japanese to >obtain a permanent teaching license, and I personally have had the head of the >Fukuchiyama Board of Education ask me for my opinion of western methods on dealing >with violent students, and we worked to apply it in a specific case at my school. >Unfortunately, we didn't succeed in getting that student into high school, be we did try. >That certainly didn't feel like token inclusion.

[/quote]


I have no idea what this statement is an example to...
but thats nice. Maybe get "Beat" Takeshi Kitano in there to talk about Ijime.

[Tsuwabuki]

Suffice to say, along with the adoption thread, I now believe you are trolling for the sake of trolling. Your commentary is often inflammatory, sometimes degrading, and definitely seems overtly aggressive. And it's often intentionally wrong by taking quotes out of context.

You've had your fun, please stop hijacking threads, thanks.

[hinata2]

yes i dont like america and i live there

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

Suffice to say, along with the adoption thread, I now believe you are trolling for the sake of trolling. Your commentary is often inflammatory, sometimes degrading, and definitely seems overtly aggressive. And it's often intentionally wrong by taking quotes out of context.

You've had your fun, please stop hijacking threads, thanks.

Thats your opinion and your welcome to it... I'm sorry you disagree..


I didn't know you owned the forum... sorry about that...

I'll keep my inflammatory, sometimes degrading, and aggressive commentary to myself so you can own the forum... I guess we don't want any kind of discussion in a forum.

Didn't mean to be "often intentionally wrong".

So sorry..
so sorry..
my sincere apologies..
again... sorry.

by the way what is that anime avatar? ... looks like some old fashioned dominating military uniform.. Like something Napoleon would wear. Suites you sooooo well.. A+ for that..

Again sorry for posting my opinions... didn't know I was trolling..
I beg your pardon.
my apologies..
すまん
sorry.

[clintjm]

Originally Posted by hinata2

yes i dont like america and i live there

Needless to say there isn't an utopia in the world... but some can be more comfortable than others.

If you are not sure really what you think you will like, travel around locally and interternationally. Obvious the area you are in doesn't suite you right now. But don't sum up the entire USA because the 2% you have lived in thus far doesn't suit.

Japan is a great place to live just like the US but Japan has it issues too just like the US.

Travel domestically and internationally as often as you can.... you'll find that place.

[KaiTea]

Thank you everyone for your opinions! I am sorry I have not been able to get back in a timely fashion. (Damn work!)

Ahem, anyway...

Yes. Black people do stand out like a sore thumb, they're black for goodness sake! (Lol, just a little joke.) However, it just seems to me that I am going to have to keep an open mind when going to Japan. I, for one, understand why people view Black people they way they do today. I live around the DC area and work in DC... so... yeah... it is sad enough to say that some of those stereotypes about Black people are true. Although, not everyone is like that! When tourists come to DC, some are actually shocked that I am able to speak coherent English, have a professional demeanor and friendly on top of that!

Oh well... anyway, the only thing for me to do is see Japan for myself. People are different, no matter what country they are from. I know, no matter where I go, I will encounter people who are racist, sexists, xenophobes, etc. It is just how the world works.

And, if I were to visit to Japan, I'm sure I can surpass these things and have one hell of a good time. (I'd just look at the positive side.)

Maybe I can enter a University's Study Abroad program...hmm~