I'm aware of the debt Japan has. The estimated reconstruction bill is going to be 99 billion dollars which will make Japan's debt 11.1 trillion.

It's an amount that Japan can handle.

I mean big deal, Europe is already implementing austerity measures as are most other countries around the world. It's not going to change Japan's situation that drastically.

How bout this Ronin. Japan is an ally and have asked us for assistance, wich we provide because we are allies. Also they are developed nation and will likely utilize our help to the best possible extent. Same with New Zealand.


Look at a world map before the earthquake in Haiti, it's on the same island as Jamica..but where Jamica is green and verdant, Haiti is a deslotate wasteland striped of any green by the local population. Haiti is a moneypit not worth the time or exspense. The local inhabitants mistreated the land so badly that it's practically incapable of supporting life. Now Baby Doc is back, it's just not worth it.

Huh? What kind of bullsh*t are you accusing me of?

Why would it be personal?

Lol if it's not personal, why are you using that language with people on the forum?

How would he know that? You are the one that went to the thread telling people how to help to post why people SHOULDN'T help Japan in their darkest hour.

he is a very dangerous individual. i pity him. i will pray for god to improve ronin4hire's wittered heart.

Excuse me for being a bit defensive of my thoughts. I'm being called a troll and an idiot by you and others.

Ah yes.. you and your spin.

If anything I was telling people to keep things in perspective. And I didn' say people shouldn't help Japan. I said that people shouldn't give MONEY to Japan. They should give it to the countries that actually need MONEY

Holy Christ, Ronin. Don't pretend anyone here is any more insulting or personal in their language than you are.

I don't think ronin is a stingy guy, he isn't. I think he wants people to pay attention to the 3rd world, which isn't wrong places like Haiti and those other countries do deserve it too. Just he has become a little passionate about the topic, and it's starting to become personal.

Ronin, take a step back, and relax. We can't change how people think. So we can all agree, to disagree.

Oh really... you want to go back and see what Sangetsu and others have said?

Not to mention you spinning my comments.

I understand where your comeing from Ronin, you feel that money should be send to poor nations who can't help themselves and that rich nations can take care of themselves. That's not a unrealistic belief persay. However, why help poor nations that lack any capability of doing anything with your help any way? No infrastructure, no roads, no government, basically grass huts in the desert.

Investing means picking a winner, that's what your doing reguardless of your intentions. Putting money and resources into an area that will make something of it in the future. Placeing money in area's were they wont do that, is just a waste of money.

OK.. thank you. I agree.

Sengetsu doesn't swear at people as you do Ronin.

I didn't spin a thing. Obviously I am talking about MONETARY help... that's what we are talking about.

You dug your hole, and I am not going to let you use me as an excuse to climb out.

People that want to put money into Japan over Haiti think Japanese babies are worth more than black babies. That's your argument. I am not going to sit down and be called a racist for thinking helping the people in Japan is a worthy cause.

What hole did I dig?

That was obviously a sarcastic dig at the whole bullsh*t macro economics justification.

I quite clearly wrote

There's your f*cking macro-economics.

in the same post.

It isn't directed at you UNLESS you actually think that Japan "deserves" money more than a country like Haiti because of macro-economics.

Also the other posts were after I had been called stupid by Sangetsu and Ozukabaraki (or whatever it was)

I disagree with what you said just there, you compared that with an investment. But no, it doesn't matter what kind of infra-structure it is, humanitarian aid is most deserved by those that LACK those things. If the buildings are less developed, then the destruction would be more severe.

In such countries, this is where Charities carry out long-term projects where people can grow their own food and survive by themselves. The charities, only help get them started. This type of aid is critical for 3rd world countries.

I think aid is deserving for any country, depending on the situation. Of course in more developed countries, Aid projects are mostly short term. So it doesn't use it much of it's resources.

Countries like Haiti, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Africa etc are the heart of Charities.

You shouldn't compare acts of charity as an investment. It's not a profit-making scheme. People will still help other human beings, whether it is an investment or not, because it is the RIGHT THING TO DO. It would be heartless to let human beings to die for no reason.

I'll say it though. In the grand sceme of things in reguards to American national interests, helping Japan is worth more than helping Haiti. Japan is a valued military ally in the pacific and helps safeguard against China, is a large tradeing partner with the 3rd worlds largest economy with direct ties to the American economy........What's Haiti got?..............hmmmmmm..let's see.............Hmmmmm........Nothing.

Despite all that we still sent billions to Haiti and guess what they did with it?...........brought back Baby Doc. Meanwile thousands die cause nothing has been rebuilt or fixed the water system is destroyed the government non functional. Weeeeeeeeeeee...that's some seriously well spent money there.

Aid provided by charities and the like, that's thier buisiness and if they want to do that I'm fine with it. But nations won't do didal about certain things in poor nations because they can't get anything from it. It's why the slaughter in Darfar was allowed, same with Ruwanda. Lybia will prolly be retaken by Gadafi cause nobody thinks it's worth the effort to kick him out.

Ronin just get over the fact that people will donate to things they feel a connection to or believe in. None of us can save the world single handedly, we all choose causes and issues which mean something to us personally. Our choices go beyond simple issues of who needs it most. I"ve always had an interest in human rights but have only ever been really active in rights abuses in Tibet. I have always been an environmentalist but am not able to fight the good fight on every environmental issue on the planet. I choose those which mean the most to me. People will donate to the Japanese people because they feel a more personal connection with the disaster here possibly more than what they feel for disasters in other areas. If we donated to every possible cause out there we'd all be broke! Your point is a valid one from a certain viewpoint but it does not reflect the reality of why people will feel motivated to choose one issue over another.

Oh well, so if people are going to be so cynical, people should start thinking about themselves and let others die then... that sound better to you? of course not. So why should people be deprived of aid because of a few corrupt people?.

If folks want to do that on thier own I hear you. Nations won't as a general rule because it's not profitable for them to do so. The US actually helps more poor nations world wide with food, medicine and essentials than the rest of the world combined. yet all we get is grief, so it can leave you jaded.

Yes we cannot control what they decide, but we can decide who we want to help.

Actually as a pecentage of its GNP, the USA helps the LEAST amongst developed nations.

With countries like Norway and Sweden helping the most.

(If I remember correctly it's 1% for Norway and Sweden, USA is actually on par with Japan if I remember correctly at 0.035%. Also figures might have changed since I last looked at them)

Fair point...

I guess I've made my case... not much more I can do.

Your just playing stats tricks Ronin, the US helps poor nations more than everyone else combined despite being .035%..because that's .035% of 15 trillion. What's Swedens GNP? I bet the US"s .035% is more than half thier GNP. Plus that's just the US government..not all the aid organizations that are based here.

It's not a stats trick. It's just to bring balance what you said.

Ask th countries receiving aid which "stat" they would prefer, and you have your answer.

agian sorta not
 

Dude, you are aware that Haiti is in it's present day dilemma due to a number of past and present economic & political constraints imposed on Haiti from more advanced and developed economys since day one of it's independence?

Before withdrawing from Haiti in 1825, France had demanded reparations for the loss of its economic and human property of 150 million francs - about $21 billion in today's money.

Haiti had to pay France for the inconveniece of rising up from slavery to become a nation.

Haiti would not pay off this debt until 1947. As a result, the young country never really got on its feet.

Off and on the US has supported dictatorships in Haiti like Francois Duvalier and his notorious Tonton Macoutes. It's estimated the Tonton Macoutes were responsible for 30,000 deaths.
Jean-Claude Duvalier, a.k.a. Baby Doc. In 1972 he told "60 Minutes"' Mike Wallace, "The aim of my government is to increase the volume of foreign investment, and at the same time promote tourism."

And foreign investment did come to Haiti in the form of 'sweat shop' labor for foreign owned textile industry and tourism.

Answer to what?

Your stupidity begs it, and if we were face to face I would take pleasure in putting by boot so far up your backside it might knock your brains back into place. Perhaps then you could say something a little more sensible.

No spin is required, you are too twisted to spin any further than you already have.

again sorta not
 

Sangetsu, ..,suck on a chill pill dude.

To which country contributes more money in aid. It's not that hard when you aren't spin-doctoring.

I think it's interesting to note that during NHK's coverage of the earthquake on Friday night there were non-profit commercials that were talking about 3rd world countries. Seeing the condition of some of those countries and how they compared to Japan's current condition was shocking because of how similar they were.

Exactly. Disaster is disaster no matter how much money you have in the bank. You're comparing human life here. Is one better than the other? Haiti got relief. Japan will need some too. Simple as that.

I am sure ronin4hire has NEVER EVER lived through a tragic event. No possible way in hell he has. He will probably say he has, but nope. He hasn't. :)

It's not spin doctoring.

It's just balance to what Ryozorian said.

The US gives the most because it is the world's largest economy. But it actually is one of the stingiest countries.

...but it gives the most. See? We can do this all day! See how fun it is?

How much does your country give, ronin4hire?

Can't remember. It's not that much higher than the US though in terms of GNP. New Zealand is a pretty stingy country also.

Good for you