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-   -   Script for Nihongo Dekimasu (https://www.japanforum.com/forum/japanese-language-help/29825-script-nihongo-dekimasu.html)

StonerPenguin 01-11-2010 08:23 PM

Script for Nihongo Dekimasu
 
Hello ladies and gents,
I'm working on a project for Japaneseclass.jp, they said they want videos with vocabulary lists and things and I would really like to subtitle the Nihongo Dekimasu series in Romaji and kana/kanji for those learning japanese (it's already subbed in English). However, my own Japanese listening comprehension ability is HORRIBLE considering how well I can read in Japanese, it makes no sense D: (I self-taught myself Japanese, so I'm only good 'on paper' so to speak) I'm doing this to help others and myself, so those who can understand spoken Japanese well, I greatly apreciate help on making a script for this YouTube - Nihongo Dekimasu Ep 1 part 1/3 :ywave: It doesn't matter which system of writing it's in :)

Any takers? I know this is kinda cheesy, but it's a helpful little show~

yuriyuri 01-11-2010 08:26 PM

Well, if you say your own listening comprehension is awful, perhaps this would be a good opportunity for you.

I think it would be good for you to write out a script of what you think they are saying and post it here, then other people can watch it and correct you.

I'm also saying this because it is your first post here and I'm not sure if you will find anyone who will want to write out the whole script for you.

SHAD0W 01-11-2010 09:11 PM

I can understand subbing it in kana/kanji, but why are they subbed in English? It provides a great oppertunity for contextual, 100% immersed learning in Japanese - better result. The English totally kills it IMO.

StonerPenguin 01-11-2010 09:25 PM

Yeah, you're right, I actually planned on doing the whole thing by myself, but I wanted to see if some uber awesome fluent person would pop out a script and make it look easy lol, But I was just being lazy, sorry.

Here we go, I'm kinda busy ATM but I'll do it 10 seconds at a time (So it's easier to time the subs later on)
Ryuugakusei; ERIN.
留学生 エリン
Nihongo wo benkyouchuu
日本語 を 勉強中
ROBOTTO EN ni-juu ichi JEI
ロボット N21-J

00:10-00:20
ERIN no benkyou wo otetsudai
エリン の 勉強 をお手伝い
Sensei; HONIGON
先生 ホニゴン
Nihongo wo yasashiku oshiemasu.
日本語 を 易しく 教えます。

00:20-00:30
ERIN ga chousen
エリン が 挑戦
Nihongo dekimasu
日本語 できます。
Minnasan mo issho ni choosen shimashou!
皆さん も 一緒に 挑戦 しましょう!

00:30-00:40
Konnichiwa!
今日は!
Minna-san, Konnichiwa, HONIGON desu.
皆さん、 今日は、ホニゴン です。
Konnichiwa, ERIN desu.
今日は、エリン です。

00:40-00:50
Konnichiwa, konnichwa
今日は、今日は
Korekara nijuugo kai watashitachi to minnasan to issho ni nihongo wo benkyou shimasu.
これから 25回 私たち と 皆さん と 一緒に 日本語 を 勉強します。
Yoroshiku onegaishimasu!
よろしくお願いします!

00:50-01:00
Erin, kyou wa hajimete nihon no gakkou ni iku n da yo ne?
エリン、今日は 初めて 日本 の学校 に 行くんだ よね?
Hai!
はい!
Waah, kono gakkou ne!
わあ、この学校 ね!

01:00-01:10
Tanoshimi dana!
楽しみ だな!
Kitto, Tomodachi ga takusan dekiru yo.
きっと 友だちが 沢山 できるね。
Soshite, kyou ERIN ga chousen suru no wa kore da yo.
そして、今日 エリン が 挑戦 する のは これだね。

01:10-01:20
Hajimete no aisatsu?
初めて の あいさつ?
Sou, hajimete no aisatsu wo suru yo.
そう、初めてのあいさつをするよ。
KURASU no minna ni jouzu ni aisatsu dekiru kana?
クラス の 皆に上手に あいさつできる かな?

01:20-01:30
Yatte miru! Jaa, Itte kimasu!
やって見る! じゃ、 行って 来ます!
ERIN, ganbatte ne.
エリン、 頑張って ね。

01:30-01:50
Ohayou gozaimasu!
お早うございます!
Ohayou.
お早う。
01:50-02:00
Ni nen roku, koko wa kimi no KURASU da.
2年 6、 ここ は君 の クラス だ。
02:00-02:10
I DON'T GET WHAT THE TEACHER SAYS HERE AT ALL. #1
02:10-02:20
Dare? Ano ko?
誰? あの 子?
Tenkousei.
転校生。
Shizukani!
静かに!
Kiri(tsu)! Rei!
起立!! 礼 ! (I guess the leaves off the つ sound, and I swear I hear a び sound..)

02:20-02:30
Ohayou gozaimasu!
お早うございます!
Chakuseki!
着席!

02:30-02:40
Ryuugakusei no ERIN-san da. Kyou kara hantoshikan kono gakkou de benkou suru (*something*) #2 n da.
留学生 の エリンさん だ。 今日から半年間 この 学校 で 勉強する ???#2 んだ。
Minna, yoroshiku "taru" #4 (?) nda.
皆、 よろしく ??#3 んだ。

02:40-03:00
Hajimemashite, ERIN desu.
初めまして、エリン です。
IGIRISU kara kimashita.
イギリス から 来ました。
Nihon no koto wo takusan benkyou shitai node, Yoroshiku onegaishimasu.
日本の こと を 勉強したい ので、よろしくお願いします。

03:00-03:10
Jaa, Kimi no seki wa asoko da.
じゃあ、君 の席は あそこ だ。

03:10-03:20
Fujioka, iroiro wo oshiete kure. (I know that can't be right but I swear that's what he says D: ) #4
03:20-03:30
Watashi Fujioka Saki.
私 藤岡 咲。
Fu-ji-o...
ふ-じ-お。。。
"Saki" deii kara. Yoroshiku ne!
「咲」 でいい から。 よろしく ね!
Hai!
はい!

03:30-03:40
Haa, doki-doki shita.
はぁっ、ドキドキ した。
Ganbatta ne.
頑張った ね。
Tadaima!
ただいま!
Okaeri!
お帰り!

03:40-04:00
Sate, jaa, benkyou shiyou.
さて、 じゃあ、勉強しよう。
Kyou ERIN ga choosen shita no wa hajimete no aisatsu.
今日 エリン が 挑戦 した のは 初めて の あいさつ。
Minna no mae de donna "funita"?? #5 kana?
みんなの前で どんな ???? #5 かな?
Eeto..
ええと...

04:00-04:10
"Hajimemashite, ERIN desu." (x2)
「初めまして、エリン です。」 (x2)
Hajimemashite, ERIN desu.
初めまして、エリン です。

04:10-04:20
OKAY!
Sou da ne, "Hajimemashite" no ato ni Jibun no namae wo iu nda.
そうだね、 「初めまして」の後に 自分の 名前 を 言う んだ。
ERIN, mou jouzu ni dekita ne.
エリン、もう 上手にできたね。

04:20-04:30
Hai! Demo, taihen datta.
はい! でも、大変 だった。
Sou ka? Jaa, sukoshi renshuu shiyou.
そうか? じゃ、少し 練習しよう。

04:30-04:50
Hajimemashite, HONIGON desu.
初めまして、ホニゴン です。
Hajimemashite, ERIN desu.
初めまして、エリン です。
Hajimemashite, HONIGON desu.
初めまして、ホニゴン です。
Hajimemashite, ERIN desu.
初めまして、エリン です。
Hajimemashite, hajimemashite
初めまして、初めまして
ERIN, dou?
エリン、 どう?
Pacchiri! (? Not sure) #6
ぱっちり! (?) #6

04:50-05:10
OKAY! Mou hitotsu taisetsu na koto ita ne.
OKAY! もう 一つ大切なこと言たね。
Eeto..
ええと...
"Hajimemashite, ERIN desu. IGIRISU kara kimashita."
「初めまして、エリン です。 イギリス から 来ました。」
"IGIRISU kara kimashita."
「イギリス から 来ました。」
IGIRISU kara kimashita.
イギリス から 来ました。

05:10-06:00
Sekai! (?) #7
Jibun no kuni no ato ni "Kara kimashita" to iu nda.
自分の国の後に 「から 来ました」 と 言う んだ。
Jaa, ERIN, chotto mite tte ne?
じゃ、エリン、 ちょっと 見てって ね?
OOSUTORARIA
オーストラリア
OOSUTORARIA kara kimashita. (x2)
オーストラリア から 来ました。(x2)
Chuugoku
中国
Chuugoku kara kimashita. (x2)
中国 から 来ました。(x2)
EJIPUTO
エジプト
EJIPUTO kara kimashita. (x2)
エジプト から 来ました。(x2)

06:00-06:10
HONIGON sensei, sugoi!
ホニゴン先生、 すごい!
Jaa, kyou no SUKITTO wo mou hitotsu miyou!
じゃ、今日のスキット を もう 一つ見よう!

Thanks for all your help guys, especially you Kyle!
I've got 7 points where I can't understand the dialouge though. If anyone know what they are please say so.

KyleGoetz 01-11-2010 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 794659)
Hello ladies and gents,
I'm working on a project for Japaneseclass.jp, they said they want videos with vocabulary lists and things and I would really like to subtitle the Nihongo Dekimasu series in Romaji and kana/kanji for those learning japanese (it's already subbed in English). However, my own Japanese listening comprehension ability is HORRIBLE considering how well I can read in Japanese, it makes no sense D: (I self-taught myself Japanese, so I'm only good 'on paper' so to speak) I'm doing this to help others and myself, so those who can understand spoken Japanese well, I greatly apreciate help on making a script for this YouTube - Nihongo Dekimasu Ep 1 part 1/3 :ywave: It doesn't matter which system of writing it's in :)

Any takers? I know this is kinda cheesy, but it's a helpful little show~

留学生エリン
日本語を勉強中
ロボットエヌ二十一ジェイ
エリンの勉強をてさい<---note, I hear "てさい" but I sure as heck can't figure it out. Maybe it's 手伝い and I'm just mishearing?
先生ホニゴン
日本語を優しく教えます
エリンが挑戦
日本語できます
皆さんも一緒に挑戦しましょう

こんにちは
皆さんこんにちは、ホニゴンです
こんにちは、エリンです
こんにちはこんにちは
これから二十五回(is this an ongoing series?)私たちと一緒に日本語を勉強します
よろしくおねがいします

エリン、今日はじめて日本の学校へ行くんだよね
はい。はぁっこの学校ねっ楽しみだな!
きっとともだちがたくさんできるよ

そして今日エリンが挑戦するのはこれだよ
初めてのあいさつ?
そう、初めてのあいさつをするよ
クラスの皆に上手あいさつできるかな
やってみる!
じゃいってきます

エリン、頑張ってね!

Just as a note, did you notice ホニゴン is an anagram for 日本語?

i stopped here because it was already translated

yuriyuri 01-11-2010 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 794685)
エリンの勉強をてさい<---note, I hear "てさい" but I sure as heck can't figure it out. Maybe it's 手伝い and I'm just mishearing?

I thought 手伝い too, but wasn't sure if i was mishearing.

StonerPenguin 01-12-2010 05:32 AM

You guys are so awesome! Thank you so much Kyle! You too yuriyuri! Ah, so I wasn't the only one who heard 'otesai', although, logically it has to be 'no tetsudai' (の手伝い) I just don't hear that D: But atleast I have you guys to help :rheart: Before I was thinking "Crap! I'm barely 10 seconds in and there's already words I can't figure out!" eheh I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help. ;)

And Kyle, yes, there's 25 episodes. I plan on doing the whole thing although I probably won't post it all here lest I be a-spammin' yur boards. :mtongue: I just wanted help for the first bit to get me started.

Sashimister 01-12-2010 06:57 AM

Allow me to make a few corrections if it isn't too late.

エリンの勉強をてさい > 勉強をお手伝い

日本語を優しく教えます > 易しく  
You don't call your own action 優しい. That would be too un-Japanese a thing to do.

私たちと一緒に > 私たちがみなさんと一緒に

今日はじめて> 今日ははじめて

皆に上手あいさつできるかな > みんなに上手に

KyleGoetz 01-12-2010 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 794734)
Allow me to make a few corrections if it isn't too late.

エリンの勉強をてさい > 勉強をお手伝い

日本語を優しく教えます > 易しく  
You don't call your own action 優しい. That would be too un-Japanese a thing to do.

私たちと一緒に > 私たちがみなさんと一緒に

今日はじめて> 今日ははじめて

皆に上手あいさつできるかな > みんなに上手に

You're right. I felt weird about that 優しく. Thanks! Also, I made those transcription errors as I basically was typing as I was listening, and I didn't go back and re-listen to most of it.

StonerPenguin 01-12-2010 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 794734)
Allow me to make a few corrections if it isn't too late.

エリンの勉強をてさい > 勉強をお手伝い

Hmm, 手伝い is a noun (Although there is the verb 手伝う) but I don't hear an う sound so it must be a noun right? In which case を wouldn't be used, right?
I dunno, I think it's エリンの勉強 の手伝い, beacause they're saything the robot is Erin's study helper. Although listening to it again it sounds more like you're right lol. I guess they just left off the する in お手伝いする :mtongue:

And it might be 優しく because the narrator isn't talking about himself, but Honigon. But you're probably right.

Also at about a minute in Erin says something about her school, Kyle wrote この学校ね and I thought she said 佳な学校, what doth a third opinion think?

Also, I edited my 2nd post to include the dialouge of the rest of the video however, I cannot figure out the teacher's words (About 2 minutes in to about 2:40) He doesn't speak clearly enough D: So If you guys could help me with that I'd really appreciate it.

yuriyuri 01-12-2010 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 794770)
Hmm, 手伝い is a noun (Although there is the verb 手伝う) but I don't hear an う sound so it must be a noun right? In which case を wouldn't be used, right?
I dunno, I think it's エリンの勉強 の手伝い, beacause they're saything the robot is Erin's study helper. Although listening to it again it sounds more like you're right lol. I guess they just left off the する in お手伝いする :mtongue:

In 日本語を勉強中, 勉強中 is a noun too, but you seemed ok about that ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 794770)
Also at about a minute in Erin says something about her school, Kyle wrote この学校ね and I thought she said 佳な学校, what doth a third opinion think?

She says この学校ね

Sashimister 01-12-2010 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 794770)
Hmm, 手伝い is a noun (Although there is the verb 手伝う) but I don't hear an う sound so it must be a noun right? In which case を wouldn't be used, right?
I dunno, I think it's エリンの勉強 の手伝い, beacause they're saything the robot is Erin's study helper. Although listening to it again it sounds more like you're right lol. I guess they just left off the する in お手伝いする :mtongue:

And it might be 優しく because the narrator isn't talking about himself, but Honigon. But you're probably right.

Also at about a minute in Erin says something about her school, Kyle wrote この学校ね and I thought she said 佳な学校, what doth a third opinion think?

Also, I edited my 2nd post to include the dialouge of the rest of the video however, I cannot figure out the teacher's words (About 2 minutes in to about 2:40) He doesn't speak clearly enough D: So If you guys could help me with that I'd really appreciate it.

Shaking my head...

Can't believe someone who thinks 佳な学校 makes ANY sense is trying to correct this native speaker. I don't need a lesson on particle を, either.

Leaving thread for Shinjuku for a drink. :rolleyes:

StonerPenguin 01-12-2010 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 794778)
Shaking my head...

Can't believe someone who thinks 佳な学校 makes ANY sense is trying to correct this native speaker. I don't need a lesson on particle を, either.

Leaving thread for Shinjuku for a drink. :rolleyes:

AHHH! No! That's not what I meant at all! I wasn't trying to correct anybody, I was confused so I was just asking D: Look, my Japanese totally sucks, I know that, so I wouldn't try to correct anybody unless I was 100% sure their Japanese proficiency level was WAY below that of my own. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was being snooty or something. :confused: I was hoping to get a grammatical explaination or something which is why I explained a grammar point I know you already know to show what I was thinking. FFFFF Now I feel bad and stupid kthx.

StonerPenguin 01-17-2010 05:49 PM

I hate to bump my own dead thread but eh, I finished subbing the video even though I don't have the dialogue %100 figured out. There are 8 parts where I can't understand the words, and it's marked by question marks in the subs. If someone could just tell those parts so I could finish this damn thing I'd really appreciate it. :) Also, sorry for the low quality and that the first 4 seconds are cut off. This is the only RAW version I could find (although my subs are so big I could've subbed over the english ones :mtongue: )

I may have made some retarded mistakes so please tell me if you see any. This is my first time subbing in Japanese and you wouldn't believe how long I had to troubleshoot my code to get the kana to display properly, even now my position codes were overridden D': not that it matters in this instance though.

Sorry about the romaji.

YouTube - Nihongo Dekimasu EP 1 Japanese and Romaji subs LQ Part 1

princessmarisa 01-17-2010 06:20 PM

just watched it
stuff like this can really help my listening practise
(I corrected #8 for you)

どもありがとうございました
:D :D

KyleGoetz 01-17-2010 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 795470)
I hate to bump my own dead thread but eh, I finished subbing the video even though I don't have the dialogue %100 figured out. There are 8 parts where I can't understand the words, and it's marked by question marks in the subs. If someone could just tell those parts so I could finish this damn thing I'd really appreciate it. :) Also, sorry for the low quality and that the first 4 seconds are cut off. This is the only RAW version I could find (although my subs are so big I could've subbed over the english ones :mtongue: )

I may have made some retarded mistakes so please tell me if you see any. This is my first time subbing in Japanese and you wouldn't believe how long I had to troubleshoot my code to get the kana to display properly, even now my position codes were overridden D': not that it matters in this instance though.

Sorry about the romaji.

YouTube - Nihongo Dekimasu EP 1 Japanese and Romaji subs LQ Part 1

You use kanji too much. No one actually writes たくさん as 沢山. It is considered bad style. Also, I would generally write こんにちは without kanji, since 今日は is usually read きょうは.

You forgot to include the translation for はじめてのあいさつ

yuriyuri 01-17-2010 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 795489)
You use kanji too much. No one actually writes たくさん as 沢山. It is considered bad style. Also, I would generally write こんにちは without kanji, since 今日は is usually read きょうは.

This.
Every time i see 今日は I always read it as きょうは... It's very confusing and annoying when people use kanji for こんにちは.

Also things like やってみる and おはよう
I'm not totally sure about the やってみる thing but I don't really see it written as やって見る unless the 見る is not an auxiliary verb.

You won't really see お早う either.

KyleGoetz 01-17-2010 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriyuri (Post 795493)
This.
Every time i see 今日は I always read it as きょうは... It's very confusing and annoying when people use kanji for こんにちは.

Also things like やってみる and おはよう
I'm not totally sure about the やってみる thing but I don't really see it written as やって見る unless the 見る is not an auxiliary verb.

You won't really see お早う either.

Right back atcha. やって見る is actually wrong unless it's not an auxiliary verb there.

MMM 01-17-2010 08:31 PM

It should be やってみる and おはよう.

1: ほ~ら、チャイム鳴っているぞ。

2: ~勉強することになった。

3: It sounds like よろしくたのんだ but may be よろしくたのむになる...hard to tell.

4: いろいろ教えてやってくれ。

5: どんな風に言ったかな。

7: すぐ仲良くなったよ。

8: 次の

Where is #6?

Sashimister 01-18-2010 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795497)
1: ほ~ら、チャイム鳴っているぞ。

There's no い there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795497)
3: It sounds like よろしくたのんだ but may be よろしくたのむになる...hard to tell.

Says よろしくたのむな(ー).

StonerPenguin 01-18-2010 03:05 PM

Oh my god, thank all of you so much. You're the best :'D. Thanks to MMM and Sashimister especially. Looking back at the teacher's dialouge it's like "Oh man, I never would've gotten that" so THANK YOU. Y'know considering this was a basic course, I think he should've made an extra effort to speak clearly lol. About #6; I guess I must've figured it out... I don't remember what it was though.

I can't believe I didn't get 風に言った and 次 (that's what I thought it was at first but "It's the next corner" just didn't seem right to me..) Doh! ;)

And I'm sorry I suffer from n00bie over using kanji OCD. I recently (finally) set up the IME thing on windows and I haven't been using common sense D: I press the space bar too much... Anywho, I'm fixing it right now. And I'm replacing all my bad overuse of kanji, thank you guys for telling me, I'll work on that :cool: .

I'm gonna replace the video with the higher quality eng subbed ones, I'll just make sure my subs timed right so they cover up the english ones (and hopefully that won't look too tacky.) Did anyone notice that Honingon says これから半年間私たちとみんなさんと- in my video and in the eng subbed version I first posted he says これから二十五回私たちとみんなさんと how weird O:

Sorry for the tl;dr but one more question; Anyone who does subs, do you know why subbed videos have such a huge file size? Like my original video was 27mb and my sub file was 19kb and the subbed video comes out as 1.5gb, for a mere 8 minute video. That doesn't seem right.. and it took like seven hours to upload to YouTube.

Anywho, thanks so much for your support you guys. And @ princessmarisa; If this helps your listening comprehesion then that's awesome, ;) that's why I'm doing this in the first place, this has been great practice for me too.

Fixed video should be on by tommorow morning :) Already working on the second one.

yuriyuri 01-18-2010 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StonerPenguin (Post 795583)
みんなさん

Just as a quick note, it's either:
みなさん
- or -
みんな

Only use さん with みな

MMM 01-18-2010 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 795519)
There's no い there.

.

Are you saying there is no い in 鳴っている?

Sashimister 01-18-2010 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795630)
Are you saying there is no い in 鳴っている?

Yes, I am. The teacher says 鳴ってるぞ~. (1:58 ~)

Not that it changes the meaning or it's of utmost importance but since this is dictation I thought I'd be picky.
 

StonerPenguin 01-18-2010 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yuriyuri (Post 795585)
Just as a quick note, it's either:
みなさん
- or -
みんな

Only use さん with みな

Ah, I didn't know that. Thank you:) learning all kinds of stuff with this :cool: I really appreciate explaintions like that- prevents me from mentally cementing wrong things. If you see me making mistakes like that I'd appreciate corrections like that in the future. :ywave:

MMM 01-18-2010 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 795636)
Yes, I am. The teacher says 鳴ってるぞ~. (1:58 ~)

Not that it changes the meaning or it's of utmost importance but since this is dictation I thought I'd be picky.
 

I have never quite understood that distinction. What is the difference, in this case, between 鳴ってる and 鳴っている?

StonerPenguin 01-18-2010 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795640)
I have never quite understood that distinction. What is the difference, in this case, between 鳴ってる and 鳴っている?

I've read that in quick speech the い just gets ommited, but they're exactly the same. I see that form in manga all the time. As far as I know, it's just a colloquial thing.
--------------
I may be wrong about that though, I'd hate to give explainations to you considering your Japanese level is obviously way higher than mine. Sorry.

KyleGoetz 01-18-2010 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795640)
I have never quite understood that distinction. What is the difference, in this case, between 鳴ってる and 鳴っている?

There's no difference in meaning, just in sound. 鳴ってる is technically a contraction, like how "cannot"->"can't."

The difference is
natteru
natteiru

I mean, that last part strikes me as a weird thing to type, but that's really the only difference: pronunciation.

I suppose you could say the meaning changes in that the contraction is more slangy. You wouldn't say 鳴ってる in a speech. You'd say 鳴っている instead, because it's technically correct. The other is "lazy Japanese."

Sashimister said he's just being picky because it's dictation. It's just like if you were taking dictation of some English, and the speaker said "can't." If this were a business letter and you were his secretary, you'd probably type "cannot." But, if you were transcribing for the hearing impaired, you'd probably stick with what he actually said: "can't."

SceptileMaster 01-18-2010 10:26 PM

~てる is easier to say than ~ている because you don't have to roll your tongue.

KyleGoetz 01-18-2010 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SceptileMaster (Post 795690)
~てる is easier to say than ~ている because you don't have to roll your tongue.

If you're rolling your tongue in Japanese, you're doing it wrong (or you're a gangster wannabe).

MMM 01-19-2010 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 795688)
There's no difference in meaning, just in sound. 鳴ってる is technically a contraction, like how "cannot"->"can't."

The difference is
natteru
natteiru

I mean, that last part strikes me as a weird thing to type, but that's really the only difference: pronunciation.

I suppose you could say the meaning changes in that the contraction is more slangy. You wouldn't say 鳴ってる in a speech. You'd say 鳴っている instead, because it's technically correct. The other is "lazy Japanese."

Sashimister said he's just being picky because it's dictation. It's just like if you were taking dictation of some English, and the speaker said "can't." If this were a business letter and you were his secretary, you'd probably type "cannot." But, if you were transcribing for the hearing impaired, you'd probably stick with what he actually said: "can't."

I have never seen it explained like that. Thank you. I am wondering if writing it without the い is confusing to students of Japanese.

KyleGoetz 01-19-2010 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795733)
I have never seen it explained like that. Thank you. I am wondering if writing it without the い is confusing to students of Japanese.

No problem. You scratch my back, and I'll scratch yours.

As for whether this confuses students of Japanese, I'm not sure. I did not get hung up on it. I asked a friend a few questions about something in a manga (my profs refused to help on the basis that they didn't want to encourage poor grammar (or maybe because I asked what クソばば meant ;))).

Still, I had had linguistics classes already, so I self-explained a ton of novel Japanese constructions by finding analogues in English. Not so I could remember the constructions more easily, but so my mind wouldn't nag me with "that makes no sense! that is illogical!"

But now that you mention it, I think maybe I've seen people thinking something like 食べてる is a dictionary form after having seen verbs like 育てる.

Sashimister 01-19-2010 04:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795733)
I have never seen it explained like that. Thank you. I am wondering if writing it without the い is confusing to students of Japanese.

I imagine that it would be. I've never studied Japanese as a foreign language so you guys would know better.

I don't think a native speaker would say 鳴ってるぞ~ in any natural situation in the first place. I wouldn't. This is because the "dictionary" form いる and the "informal" sentence ender ぞ create an awkward imbalance between them.

鳴ってるぞ~ sounds much more natural and in Kanto, you will even hear the one-step more informal version 鳴ってんぞ~. I think it's a pretty universal linguistic tendency to want to say things quicker by having to utter fewer syllables.

鳴っているぞ~ = 5 syllables
鳴ってるぞ~ = 4 syllables
鳴ってんぞ~ = 3 syllables

MMM 01-19-2010 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 795740)
I imagine that it would be. I've never studied Japanese as a foreign language so you guys would know better.

I don't think a native speaker would say 鳴ってるぞ~ in any natural situation in the first place. I wouldn't. This is because the "dictionary" form いる and the "informal" sentence ender ぞ create an awkward imbalance between them.

鳴ってるぞ~ sounds much more natural and in Kanto, you will even hear the one-step more informal version 鳴ってんぞ~. I think it's a pretty universal linguistic tendency to want to say things quicker by having to utter fewer syllables.

鳴っているぞ~ = 5 syllables
鳴ってるぞ~ = 4 syllables
鳴ってんぞ~ = 3 syllables

I understand that is how it is being said, but my question would be, is that a proper way to write it?

Can't and don't are still correct English (even if not formal English) but I don't remember seeing this form in any textbook I have looked at.

Sashimister 01-19-2010 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795742)
I understand that is how it is being said, but my question would be, is that a proper way to write it?

Can't and don't are still correct English (even if not formal English) but I don't remember seeing this form in any textbook I have looked at.

In writing, no. That is unless you're talking about casual notes or letters between friends. Use 鳴ってる、住んでる、読んでる, etc. outside of a direct quote in a compo for school, and you will be corrected. Needless to say, you won't see it in the printed media, either.

MMM 01-19-2010 04:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sashimister (Post 795746)
In writing, no. That is unless you're talking about casual notes or letters between friends. Use 鳴ってる、住んでる、読んでる, etc. outside of a direct quote in a compo for school, and you will be corrected. Needless to say, you won't see it in the printed media, either.

Then I am thinking writing it correctly might be a better idea for what is being used as a video textbook.

KyleGoetz 01-19-2010 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795747)
Then I am thinking writing it correctly might be a better idea for what is being used as a video textbook.

I think if you're going to write ほ〜ら instead of ほら, then you should い-delete.

I guess it depends on the goal. If the video is to help improve listening, I say い-delete. If it's being used to teach grammar, I say do not い-delete.

MMM 01-19-2010 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KyleGoetz (Post 795752)
I think if you're going to write ほ〜ら instead of ほら, then you should い-delete.

I guess it depends on the goal. If the video is to help improve listening, I say い-delete. If it's being used to teach grammar, I say do not い-delete.

Point well taken.

I would just hope the individuals taking these lessons know that the words are not being written properly.

KyleGoetz 01-19-2010 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMM (Post 795754)
Point well taken.

I would just hope the individuals taking these lessons know that the words are not being written properly.

That is something we can all agree on. :)

StonerPenguin 01-19-2010 08:46 PM

Hmm, interesting.. yeah the whole い being left out never bothered me except at when I first saw it with a verb whose dictionary form ended in つ because then it was hard to tell if it's the potential form or not. e.g. 待ってる ("I'm waiting") and 待てる ("I can wait") and at the time I couldn't remember if the potential form had a っ. Anywho, I've always thought of the contraction of the い sound similar to the colloquial loss of the final 'g' in english progressive forms, e.g 読んでいる-> 読んでる is similar to "I'm reading" -> I'm readin' ;)

I could maybe put in a parenthesis the omited い like what I did when the girl says 起立, she omits the つ so in the romaji subs I wrote "Kiri(tsu)" so I could do it like this; "鳴って (い)る" or do the parenthesis just make it more confusing? Haha. :D

Sorry for how slow I've been, my computer has been crapping out on me D:


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