Question about は

[chryuop]

As someone said in this forum once, to fully understand the particle は can take years
I was reading about it in a dictionary and I got some doubts popping out in my head.
I know the fact that は is used in a comparative way, but what puzzled me is that the dictionary says that in Japan most of the times one of the the 2 parts compared is missing (given for granted). It gives a few examples like 子どもには無理だ giving for granted a missing part which could be 大人には出来る or again 大阪までは行ける giving for granted something like 大阪から先は行けない.
Does that mean that if I want to say a phrase which has a "but" hidden in it I can use は? I mean, for example if Masaeguさん is talking to me in Japanese I could tell him 聞いてはいる giving for granted a phrase like 聞いてはいるが、分かりはしない? (hoping that he doesn't understand I am listening to you, but I don't care...it could be misleading when 1 of the phrases is given for granted).
But at this point, wouldn't the use of は carry a negative meaning when used (except when used to introduce a topic).


Another little question about one of the examples: ゆっくりとは読めても、すらすらとは読めない小説　I think I have no problem about the meaning which should be "even reading this novel slowly, I cannot read it smoothly"...but my question is about the use of は. I was taught that は cannot be used in subordinate clauses...and here they are subordinate because modifying 小説. :O
Thank you very much in advance.

[KyleGoetz]

Well, until a native gets here, let me quote from my useful Japanese: A Comprehensive Grammar:

Originally Posted by awesome book

23.5.5.3 Sanwiched before a positive form

Less frequently than with neg., wa also gets sandwiched between items such as VN and suru, or parts of the cop., i.e., between the de aru variant. The effect is one of emphasizing the contrast expressed by keredo 'but', and of kaizen sareta in example b.

離婚少しずつではあるけれど増えていること。
The fact is that divorce is on the increase, albeit little by little.

いくらか改善はされた。
[Things] have been improved somewhat.

Somewhat tangentially,

CLAUSE 1-te wa, CLAUSE 2 (POSITIVE PREDICATE): REPEATED ACTIONS

Joining two actions, this indicates that the actions take place repeatedly 'keep doing'.
a. 繰り返し見た三船の顔が浮かんでは消えた。
Mifune's face, which I'd looked at over and over again, kept appearing and disappearing [in my mind].

b. 今では園芸は生活の一部になっておい、暇を見つけては 、丹念に手入れをしてやる。
By now, gardening has become a part of his life, and he keeps finding time to tend to [the garden] with care.

c。公演など機会をとらえてはボランティアの支援制度� �導入を呼びかけている。
Using every occasion such as lectures etc., he keeps calling for the introduction of a volunteer support system.

My copy of A Dictionary of Japanese Particles says effectively what the first quote above in my post does (re emphasizing what precedes it, even if it's a verb in te form), except that all its examples are followed by a negative verb, so that doesn't help you too much. (Still, the book doesn't explicitly make the distinction.)

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by chryuop

I know the fact that は is used in a comparative way, but what puzzled me is that the dictionary says that in Japan most of the times one of the the 2 parts compared is missing (given for granted). It gives a few examples like 子どもには無理だ giving for granted a missing part which could be 大人には出来る or again 大阪までは行ける giving for granted something like 大阪から先は行けない.

This is true. Something is implied when you use では、には, etc. You don't have to say the second part to be understood.

Does that mean that if I want to say a phrase which has a "but" hidden in it I can use は? I mean, for example if Masaeguさん is talking to me in Japanese I could tell him 聞いてはいる giving for granted a phrase like 聞いてはいるが、分かりはしない? (hoping that he doesn't understand I am listening to you, but I don't care...it could be misleading when 1 of the phrases is given for granted).
But at this point, wouldn't the use of は carry a negative meaning when used (except when used to introduce a topic).

Yes, you can use は again for emphasizing the negation if you want to, but it isn't necessary for getting your idea across. Native speakers would usually use the は just once.
聞いてはいますが、分かりません。

Another little question about one of the examples: ゆっくりとは読めても、すらすらとは読めない小説　I think I have no problem about the meaning which should be "even reading this novel slowly, I cannot read it smoothly"...but my question is about the use of は. I was taught that は cannot be used in subordinate clauses...and here they are subordinate because modifying 小説. :O

You are somewhat misunderstood.

In the relative clause 「ゆっくりとは読めても、すらすらとは読めない小説」 , the は is NOT being used as a subject marker. There is no subject mentioned in the mini-sentence within the clause in the first place.

If it was 「スミスさんがゆっくりとは読めても、すらすらとは読めない小説」, then you would have no choice but to use が there. It cannot be replaced by は in a relative clause/sub clause.

[chryuop]

Thank you very much...I think I am one step closer to understand all the many nuances は carries.

By the way. One last question. In the dictionary as last entry it is a use of は I had never seen before. I will write just the subtitles of the entry...I guess you really don't need the explanation that comes after the titles, because you know the matter already too well
＜＜「ＡはＡだ」の形で、同じ語を「は」の前後で反復 させて＞＞。。。
＜＜「Ａ（なこと）はＡだが」「ＡするにはＡしたが」 などの形で＞＞。。。
例：「そりゃ、迷惑なことは迷惑だけど。。。」「安い ことは安いが、質が悪い」勝つには勝ったが、それほど うれしくない」

I think I understood the meaning, but I am not sure about it. Is it a way to agree with something happened or a status, but adding a negative aspect of it? Like saying "to be cheap it is cheap, but the quality is not good" or "to win he has won, but he is not so happy about it".

[masaegu]

Originally Posted by chryuop

By the way. One last question. In the dictionary as last entry it is a use of は I had never seen before. I will write just the subtitles of the entry...I guess you really don't need the explanation that comes after the titles, because you know the matter already too well
＜＜「ＡはＡだ」の形で、同じ語を「は」の前後で反復 させて＞＞。。。
＜＜「Ａ（なこと）はＡだが」「ＡするにはＡしたが」 などの形で＞＞。。。
例：「そりゃ、迷惑なことは迷惑だけど。。。」「安い ことは安いが、質が悪い」勝つには勝ったが、それほど うれしくない」

I think I understood the meaning, but I am not sure about it. Is it a way to agree with something happened or a status, but adding a negative aspect of it? Like saying "to be cheap it is cheap, but the quality is not good" or "to win he has won, but he is not so happy about it".

Exactly. It is a way of politely acknowledging an action or situation but at the same time not showing too much concern or approval. This form is very often used even among children.

[KyleGoetz]

Originally Posted by seifip

There's a good explanation of the は and が particles in the Introduce yourself in Japanese lesson over at NihongoUp...

Stop spamming your site and read the thread. It's obvious if you do that 100% of the posters in this thread are waaaay beyond that simplistic explanation.

You have 8 posts. Each and every one contains a link to your blog/site. That's not how this forum works.

Normally, I wouldn't care. But here, your post is absolutely off topic.