BRANCH: Anime/Manga piracy discussion

[MMM]

This was moved from a Living in Japan discussion in order to be discussed and remain on-topic.

Originally Posted by Micki

(I can get aniime online )

You realize that in the last two weeks Go! Comi and CMX have gone out of business and that Viz has cut 40% of its staff. Jokes about stealing content online are not appreciated by me.

[Micki]

Originally Posted by MMM

You realize that in the last two weeks Go! Comi and CMX have gone out of business and that Viz has cut 40% of its staff. Jokes about stealing content online are not appreciated by me.

I see. I didn know this. And no I am not using that as excuse for stealing any content. I'm not going to suck up and say that I haven't. My use of that joke definitely proves that I have. So sorry if I struck a nerve there, I was just trying to get a point across. That was probably a bad choice of words though. So I'll edit that out.

[Tsuwabuki]

I have little sympathy for companies that fail to adapt. And I know people who work for Viz. The new paradigm is streamable and downloadable global content. I was paying for netflix until I realised my being in Japan stopped it from working because of outdated licensing structure.

There are no national borders on the Internet, and we don't need your shiny little plastic discs. What we do need is an easy way we can pay for non DRM content that can be watched whenever we want on whatever device we want.

Until companies can do that, they will die.

Back on topic, 12 years of education is usually needed to prove native level English, but it's case by case.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

I have little sympathy for companies that fail to adapt. And I know people who work for Viz. The new paradigm is streamable and downloadable global content. I was paying for netflix until I realised my being in Japan stopped it from working because of outdated licensing structure.

There are no national borders on the Internet, and we don't need your shiny little plastic discs. What we do need is an easy way we can pay for non DRM content that can be watched whenever we want on whatever device we want.

Until companies can do that, they will die.

Back on topic, 12 years of education is usually needed to prove native level English, but it's case by case.

Unfortunately the pardagm is not downloadable content, it is the paradigm that the value of a manga or anime is zero. Scanlators and rippers put this stuff up on the Internet faster than publishers can license. So many of these kids don't even think that what they are doing is wrong, much less putting companies out of business. Let's not completely blame the victims for the actions of theives.

[ColinHowell]

Originally Posted by MMM

Unfortunately the pardagm is not downloadable content, it is the paradigm that the value of a manga or anime is zero. Scanlators and rippers put this stuff up on the Internet faster than publishers can license. So many of these kids don't even think that what they are doing is wrong, much less putting companies out of business. Let's not completely blame the victims for the actions of theives.

I know this is still off the original topic, and this thread isn't the place to discuss it in detail, but I thought MMM would be interested (though not happily) at the following bit of news I saw on Anime News Network:



The forum discussion is interesting. The site in question is advertising-supported, and its owner is looking to sell it, supposedly hoping for something in the range of over $10 million. It sounds like the publishers really need to bring the hammer down on these guys.

[Tsuwabuki]

Originally Posted by MMM

Unfortunately the pardagm is not downloadable content, it is the paradigm that the value of a manga or anime is zero. Scanlators and rippers put this stuff up on the Internet faster than publishers can license. So many of these kids don't even think that what they are doing is wrong, much less putting companies out of business. Let's not completely blame the victims for the actions of theives.

Most people are willing to pay for content. The problem is delivery. And delivery is curtailed by licensing structure which is outdated and greedy. I don't think the content lacks value; I do think copyright law and licensing agreements do.

There is no need for US companies anymore. Nothing personal. Japanese companies would make a lot more money by doing translations themselves and starting subscription services with downloadable content.

Make it as easy to pay for content as it is to steal it, and people will pay for it. Some people won't, but they are the people who wouldn't pay regardless.

For the record, I still buy dvds and blu-rays, and when I do, they rarely come with subtitles at all. I don't like paying $60-80 per disc for two episodes each, however. As long as the companies push people to pirate, the people who suffer are the people who do buy content on those stupid, shiny discs with silly DRM.

Again, little sympathy. The market has spoken. Capitalism at its finest.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by ColinHowell

I know this is still off the original topic, and this thread isn't the place to discuss it in detail, but I thought MMM would be interested (though not happily) at the following bit of news I saw on Anime News Network:



The forum discussion is interesting. The site in question is advertising-supported, and its owner is looking to sell it, supposedly hoping for something in the range of over $10 million. It sounds like the publishers really need to bring the hammer down on these guys.

You will understand please, Colin, why I removed the link. If people want to track it down then they will. And yes, it does sadden me, but it points to the problem of the present culture especially among the young that "everything should be free".

I don't want to go to into this as this isn't on topic (maybe I will move these posts to a new thread). But I think it is easier for the music industry to adapt than the comics industry.

Part of the problem is that because of the nature of the system, scanlations appear online before American publishers have even licensed a title. It is harder to issues CaD letters when you don't own the license. Good publishers do actively issue CaD letters to copyright violators, but it is a timely and expensive operation that not all publishers can afford to the extent they would like.

Originally Posted by Tsuwabuki

Most people are willing to pay for content. The problem is delivery. And delivery is curtailed by licensing structure which is outdated and greedy. I don't think the content lacks value; I do think copyright law and licensing agreements do.

There is no need for US companies anymore. Nothing personal. Japanese companies would make a lot more money by doing translations themselves and starting subscription services with downloadable content.

Make it as easy to pay for content as it is to steal it, and people will pay for it. Some people won't, but they are the people who wouldn't pay regardless.

For the record, I still buy dvds and blu-rays, and when I do, they rarely come with subtitles at all. I don't like paying $60-80 per disc for two episodes each, however. As long as the companies push people to pirate, the people who suffer are the people who do buy content on those stupid, shiny discs with silly DRM.

Again, little sympathy. The market has spoken. Capitalism at its finest.

I am going to disagree with you here. The value of the manga and anime has been reduced to $0.00. You can't compete when you are charging more than that.

Many people are willing to pay...if not then there would be no industry...but that does excuse the stealing of content. I explained that above, and the industry is starting to explore ways to beat the timing issue. However, that doesn't excuse the act of stealing. You are talking about not capitalism, but post-apocolyptic capitalism on a non-post apocolyptic world. It is the Wild West on the Internet and you have a generation of manga "fans" that do not read books, but off their computers.

Make it is easy to pay for content as it is to steal it, and people will still steal it, still. People who want to pay for manga want to buy books. People who steal read them online. Will people pay to read them online? Maybe some would. I wouldn't.

Not paying regardless is an empty argument. They are stealing content instead of doing SOMETHING else. That something else could be going to a movie, buying a video game, etc.

[JasonTakeshi]

Originally Posted by MMM

You will understand please, Colin, why I removed the link. If people want to track it down then they will. And yes, it does sadden me, but it points to the problem of the present culture especially among the young that "everything should be free".

I don't want to go to into this as this isn't on topic (maybe I will move these posts to a new thread). But I think it is easier for the music industry to adapt than the comics industry.

Part of the problem is that because of the nature of the system, scanlations appear online before American publishers have even licensed a title. It is harder to issues CaD letters when you don't own the license. Good publishers do actively issue CaD letters to copyright violators, but it is a timely and expensive operation that not all publishers can afford to the extent they would like.



I am going to disagree with you here. The value of the manga and anime has been reduced to $0.00. You can't compete when you are charging more than that.

Many people are willing to pay...if not then there would be no industry...but that does excuse the stealing of content. I explained that above, and the industry is starting to explore ways to beat the timing issue. However, that doesn't excuse the act of stealing. You are talking about not capitalism, but post-apocolyptic capitalism on a non-post apocolyptic world. It is the Wild West on the Internet and you have a generation of manga "fans" that do not read books, but off their computers.

Make it is easy to pay for content as it is to steal it, and people will still steal it, still. People who want to pay for manga want to buy books. People who steal read them online. Will people pay to read them online? Maybe some would. I wouldn't.

Not paying regardless is an empty argument. They are stealing content instead of doing SOMETHING else. That something else could be going to a movie, buying a video game, etc.

WHY SHOULD I DO THAT IF I CAN GET THEM ON THE INTERNETZ!!!!

OH YOU GUYS!!!!


Inb4 Obvious sarcasm.

[manganimefan227]

I think this was already said, I rarely watch anime online (or anywhere) and never read manga online but when I dosee anime the reason I do is because buying it is really expensive, and it really adds up if your a big anime fan. Twenty dollars for 4 bloody episodes! (No pun intended) Would you pay that kind of money on a series?

Stealing is an issue, but buying is, not a very good way to spend money . . .

And if more people did buy, people would complain that "OMG, people spend so much money on that Anime snd manga!"

People want to save money for other things like a car that they'll use more or have more value.

Now that I think of it, I did see this one site where you could download anime but you have to pay twenty dollars a month or something, it might have/ right now be more.

Rambling over.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by manganimefan227

I think this was already said, I rarely watch anime online (or anywhere) and never read manga online but when I dosee anime the reason I do is because buying it is really expensive, and it really adds up if your a big anime fan. Twenty dollars for 4 bloody episodes! (No pun intended) Would you pay that kind of money on a series?

Stealing is an issue, but buying is, not a very good way to spend money . . .

And if more people did buy, people would complain that "OMG, people spend so much money on that Anime snd manga!"

People want to save money for other things like a car that they'll use more or have more value.

Now that I think of it, I did see this one site where you could download anime but you have to pay twenty dollars a month or something, it might have/ right now be more.

Rambling over.

So why is stealing anime OK, and not stealing cars? Because cars have more value? How about stealing candy from a convenience store? That has less value, so is it OK to steal that?

"I wouldn't have paid for it anyway."

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