"White anti-feminist men in Japan"

[Wasabista]

Ronin and Misa,
I appreciate that you don't endorse radical feminism. I'm glad to hear that.

However these are not simply "unrepresentative voices." These are some of the best known spokeswomen for feminism in the world. You ask any educated person to name a feminist and the names Betty Friedan, Germaine Greer, Andrea Dworkin and Gloria Steinem will come up. You may not like it, I certainly don't, but they are the leading voices of the movement. Their words are taught in every "women's studies" course in every university in America. They are opinion shapers.

Have their opinions caused damage? Let's answer that question with a question:

In your view, who commits domestic violence more? Men or women?

[MissMisa]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Have their opinions caused damage? Let's answer that question with a question:

In your view, who commits domestic violence more? Men or women?

It is impossible to answer that question with a lot of accuracy. Domestic violence is a very sensative issue, and it's a type of violence which commonly goes unreported.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Ronin and Misa,
I appreciate that you don't endorse radical feminism. I'm glad to hear that.

However these are not simply "unrepresentative voices." These are some of the best known spokeswomen for feminism in the world. You ask any educated person to name a feminist and the names Betty Friedan, Germaine Greer, Andrea Dworkin and Gloria Steinem will come up. You may not like it, I certainly don't, but they are the leading voices of the movement. Their words are taught in every "women's studies" course in every university in America. They are opinion shapers.

Have their opinions caused damage? Let's answer that question with a question:

In your view, who commits domestic violence more? Men or women?

Whether you consider them representative voices or not... feminism is not a religion and these women do not have the same role that say Jesus does with Christians. Any recognition these women get comes from their contribution to the feminist discourse rather than what they say is what is believed. I've not studied Womens studies or Feminism to any great depth but I imagine it to be the same as it is in the field of International Relations. You have folks like Francis Fukuyama, Sam Huntington, Edward Said who are all contributers to the field even though they all completely disagree with each other on many things.

[Wasabista]

Ronin, you're certainly right that feminism is probably a broad church. But you're confusing a movement with a field. Anthropology is a field; feminism is a movement, a particular point of view on anthropology (as well as sociology, among others).

There may well be feminists out there who don't believe women can claim to have been oppressed, and are in favor of equality of responsibilities as well as of rights. But I'm not aware of any.

MissMisa, I see you didn't take my bait on domestic violence I'll leave it alone for now.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Wasabista

Ronin, you're certainly right that feminism is probably a broad church. But you're confusing a movement with a field. Anthropology is a field; feminism is a movement, a particular point of view on anthropology (as well as sociology, among others).

There may well be feminists out there who don't believe women can claim to have been oppressed, and are in favor of equality of responsibilities as well as of rights. But I'm not aware of any.

MissMisa, I see you didn't take my bait on domestic violence I'll leave it alone for now.

As a broad movement what aspect of it do you disagree with?

Whether I agree or disagree with some of the specifics which some feminists advocate. As far as I'm concerned, the overall goal of feminism is to promote women as equally deserving of the rights and freedoms that men have.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by quixote73

I thought folks here might be interested in this blog post:

steve_s: White anti-feminist men in Japan

It's quite provocative and certainly should generate some interesting discussion!

Just read the blog! Interesting stuff.

I can imagine anti-social LBH (Loser back home) types harbouring resentment towards feminism in the West and being attracted to Japanese society in which gender roles are perhaps (I've never been to Japan) more emphasised and where sexist attitudes could perhaps better thrive.

(Please note- I'm NOT saying that the more emphasised gender roles in Japan makes it an inherently sexist society.)

[Bureda]

Originally Posted by MissMisa

There is nothing wrong with having a partner. There is nothing wrong with being alone. Everyone has different ideas of what they want life to be like. The point in feminism is to give people that choice. Many people do not want children. Many people would be happy to be without a partner. I couldn't care either way, and now I have that choice because I'm able to sustain myself without the support of a man, because in my country I am able to get a well paying job. It was not always like that.

Let me clarify what I think. I do not support radical feminism. As I have already said, judging feminists by radical feminists is like judging muslims by extremist muslim terrorists. They both say and do terrible things by twisting existing beliefs. I support any kind of feminism that promotes equality. I do not support the idea that women are better than men. I support equal pay and equal rights - some of which do not exist for women in some countries today. Feminism is not a bad thing, unless it is extremist, but I can assure you those are the minority, just as all extremists are the minority. There are bad apples within every organisation.

Coming back at me with quotes from radical feminists is pointless, I've already said I do not support radical feminism. That isn't the only type of feminism, nor is it the biggest, and if you are inclined to believe so then I can't think of any other way to describe you but ignorant.

You stupidity belials your vision.

You need to get your knickers off the twist and calm your manners down. My post was not an attack, but simply a mirror image of those theorems. You may not believe in those theories but you do incline in supporting them as you are a female.

You have not lived in a suppressed environment to truly understand the thinking or pain that these women went though. To you feminism is just a luxury, something you can have passive pride on without truly knowing its purpose - just because you're female.

You trying to direct your attacking post towards me does little to support your cause. You see, you are not showing me understand and respect, so my choice here is to simply return that favour.

If you truly wish to understand both sides you must be open to both points of view.

All your ignorance has said is "Look, I am a modern girl and I want equality". You have quality, you have freedom and what's more it does not really effect you as you're not a working woman.

Now, if you had to get your big arse off your seat and visited a third world country you may realise why women are treated as vessels. I am not saying its right, but I am saying that they have to do it in order to prosper.

You see, you have a choice in this country but in many countries around the world that choice does not exist. It is not because women are suppressed, it is because they are raised in that cycle and therefore have to live within that cycle to prosper.

If your father earned £150 a month at his work place do you think you would actually have much of a choice but to help your family.

Your bigotry is beyond compare, you try to understand your fellow sisters but you have no such experience.

Do you see where these women come from and how modernisation of a social group changed their views and opinions.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Bureda

You stupidity belials your vision.

You need to get your knickers off the twist and calm your manners down. My post was not an attack, but simply a mirror image of those theorems. You may not believe in those theories but you do incline in supporting them as you are a female.

You have not lived in a suppressed environment to truly understand the thinking or pain that these women went though. To you feminism is just a luxury, something you can have passive pride on without truly knowing its purpose - just because you're female.

You trying to direct your attacking post towards me does little to support your cause. You see, you are not showing me understand and respect, so my choice here is to simply return that favour.

If you truly wish to understand both sides you must be open to both points of view.

All your ignorance has said is "Look, I am a modern girl and I want equality". You have quality, you have freedom and what's more it does not really effect you as you're not a working woman.

Now, if you had to get your big arse off your seat and visited a third world country you may realise why women are treated as vessels. I am not saying its right, but I am saying that they have to do it in order to prosper.

You see, you have a choice in this country but in many countries around the world that choice does not exist. It is not because women are suppressed, it is because they are raised in that cycle and therefore have to live within that cycle to prosper.

If your father earned £150 a month at his work place do you think you would actually have much of a choice but to help your family.

Your bigotry is beyond compare, you try to understand your fellow sisters but you have no such experience.

Do you see where these women come from and how modernisation of a social group changed their views and opinions.

Wow.

You're attacking her for views she doesn't even hold and have gone on to build a strawman.

And are you attempting to justify the oppression of women in third world societies by saying that it's necessary? I'm talking honour killings, female circumcision etc.

Obviously things like environment (social and natural) have to be taken into account but to suggest that feminism is null and void because the way in which it's applied in one society is not practical in another is kinda stupid.

[Bureda]

Hey you, get a pair of tits and a vagina and go touch yourself.

Feminism was developed in a developed country.
Nothing like that is taken into account in today's ages.

Around the industrial era society became more civilised, women had the opportunity and bang! they received justice.

Well done to those women, they deserved it because I can only imagine how much they suffered.

As for now thought that's not really the case.

Those third world country victims you just mentioned were part of an extremist society.

All I said was its necessary to stay at home and do the chores if your father/husband earns minor money a month.

I have no idea where you got the rest though.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Bureda

Hey you, get a pair of tits and a vagina and go touch yourself.

Feminism was developed in a developed country.
Nothing like that is taken into account in today's ages.

Around the industrial era society became more civilised, women had the opportunity and bang! they received justice.

Well done to those women, they deserved it because I can only imagine how much they suffered.

As for now thought that's not really the case.

Those third world country victims you just mentioned were part of an extremist society.

All I said was its necessary to stay at home and do the chores if your father/husband earns minor money a month.

I have no idea where you got the rest though.

What's not really the case? Are you saying that discussion of feminist thought should not occur because according to you, it is no longer relevant?

Fair enough... gender roles might be necessary in some parts of the world but in many societies the line between necessity and perpetuation of male dominance is blurry. Though I don't understand why you brought it up if it wasn't to discredit feminism or Misa. (Which of course if you did... would be totally stupid as it's taking the discussion completely out of the context it's in)