Is Love Selfish? -For those out there that are creative thinkers

[JasonTakeshi]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

@Tyrien: Do you also think, like JasonTakeshi, that donating to a charity is selfish?

Man, I was hearing plenty of people saying how selfish some people are for not donating for Haiti. I'm sure JasonTakeshi hasn't done that, since you know... it would be a waste, he would still be selfish even after donating.

I actually donated 20€ euros. Why? Because knowning that those 20€ might contribute to a life changing makes me feel happy.

(Consciously): "...contribute to a life changing...."
(Unconsciously): "... makes me feel happy."

Give me an example where there is NO "unconscious" benefit.

You can't. Because there is none.

Therefore, everything you do, regardless of benefiting or not consciously, will benefit you unconsciously.

ALWAYS.

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by Tyrien

You keep referring to selfish behavior as one which has a primary concern relating to one's self. That's exactly what I'm referring to when talking about love being selfish. It's a subconscious behavior that we all do as a built in survival instinct. We make conscious justifications for our actions, but these actions always root back to ourselves as the primary benefactor.

I don't think they root as the primary benefactor. But to each their own opinion. I believe the main question here was the practical meaning of love, so that has been answered as not being selfish I guess.

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi

I actually donated 20€ euros. Why? Because knowning that those 20€ might contribute to a life changing makes me feel happy.

(Consciously): "...contribute to a life changing...."
(Unconsciously): "... makes me feel happy."

Give me an example where there is NO "unconscious" benefit.

You can't. Because there is none.

Therefore, everything you do, regardless of benefiting or not consciously, will benefit you unconsciously.

ALWAYS.

I've donated or gave money without feeling anything. Many friends I know have done the same way. I've also refused, but I still feel the same. I believe you're pulling some crap here now. Did you really donate to fell happier? I, myself, donate to help other people, regardless of my feelings. I don't know how you can interpret this situation as selfish but you seem to be the only one able to do so.

Anyway, that unconscious benefit you're talking about is not as significant as your main action. You're not selfish here.

EDIT: Like I said before, you're asking for pure altruism. Go research on that, it doesn't exist. But altruism does. Donating is altruism.

[JasonTakeshi]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

I've donated or gave money without feeling anything. Many friends I know have done the same way. I've also refused, but I still feel the same. I believe you're pulling some crap here now. Did you really donate to fell happier? I, myself, donate to help other people, regardless of my feelings. I don't know how you can interpret this situation as selfish but you seem to be the only one able to do so.

Anyway, that unconscious benefit you're talking about is not as significant as your main action. You're not selfish here.

EDIT: Like I said before, you're asking for pure altruism. Go research on that, it doesn't exist. But altruism does. Donating is altruism.

That was a crap argument and a contradiction.

"I've donated or gave money without feeling anything ... I, myself, donate to help other people..."

You're helping others for no reason? No. You're donating to help them.

1 - Reason: Helping others.
2 - Helping others: Compassion.
3 - Compassion: Emotion prompted by the pain of others.

And the next one goes back to the example i gave previously about donating:

4 - "Regardless if its Altruism or not, you gave that money because you wanted to feel happy. Because it fulfills you to think that your doing something good, when your just trying to calm your inner feelings from what you are exposed to around the world (or Media). Such as hunger, illness, etc. It makes you unhappy, so you donate. It makes you less unhappy."


Boy, you are so lost.

[manganimefan227]

Although it was never true I used to ALWAYS feel alone and iscolated with no friends in this world because I had none in my Elmentary school classes, None that said much above "hi"

These days I have some great friends! I constantly make an effort to make them laugh and feel special because unconciusly I wanted to help them keep away from the shameful life I lived during elementary School.

So I care for people outside my family unconciously to make THEM happy . . .If that makes any sense . . .

[JasonTakeshi]

Originally Posted by manganimefan227

Although it was never true I used to ALWAYS feel alone and iscolated with no friends in this world because I had none in my Elmentary school classes, None that said much above "hi"

These days I have some great friends! I constantly make an effort to make them laugh and feel special because unconciusly I wanted to help them keep away from the shameful life I lived during elementary School.

So I care for people outside my family unconciously to make THEM happy . . .If that makes any sense . . .

Ask yourself: "Why do I want them to keep away from the shameful life I had?"

(Assuming) "Because they are my friends, I dont want them to suffer and I care for them."

So, watching them in the same situation as you were, would be painful, right?

(Your unconscious) Would be painful. To who? To you. What do you do? Prevent them to be at the same situation I've been. Why? Because I felt sad. And why dont you want that to your friends? Because their sadness brings me sadness.

You, unconsciously, care for others because it makes you feel happy.

[manganimefan227]

Meh, to a certain degree maybe but it by far isn't the primary reason.

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi

That was a crap argument and a contradiction.

It isn't a contradiction at all. The first denotes what I felt after donating, which was zero feelings... the 2nd denotes that when I donate I don't think 'I'll be happy, so that's why I'll donate'. lrn2understand

Altruism makes you happy. But it's altruism because your action overrides any emotion you feel. Selfishness would be to solely act for that emotion, but altruism's first reason is to care for others, though you do gain emotion there.

So yeah, the examples you give are altruism... you just don't want to accept that fact.

Or better, you have some supah dupah different definition for both of these words.

[JasonTakeshi]

Originally Posted by iPhantom

It isn't a contradiction at all. The first denotes what I felt after donating, which was zero feelings... the 2nd denotes that when I donate I don't think 'I'll be happy, so that's why I'll donate'. lrn2understand

Altruism makes you happy. But it's altruism because your action overrides any emotion you feel. Selfishness would be to solely act for that emotion, but altruism's first reason is to care for others, though you do gain emotion there.

So yeah, the examples you give are altruism... you just don't want to accept that fact.

Or better, you have some supah dupah different definition for both of these words.

Yet, a senseless argument.

If everything you do reflects on yourself (unconsciously), where does the word "Altruist" comes in?

For me, there is no such thing as "Altruism". Doing it for others will reflect on yourself. Period. (unconsciously)

[iPhantom]

Originally Posted by JasonTakeshi

Yet, a senseless argument.

If everything you do reflects on yourself (unconsciously), where does the word "Altruist" comes in?

For me, there is no such thing as "Altruism". Doing it for others will reflect on yourself. Period. (unconsciously)

Wow, you can't read can you? I never said everything we do reflects on ourselves... actually on the example I gave it reflects mostly on others, then ot us. This is why it's an altruistic action.

Selfish is CONSCIOUS action to gain by yourself. If you act with the CONSCIOUS thinking to help or save others, it's not selfishness, regardless what unconscious reasons there might be inside you, those get overrided.