Mosque at Ground Zero

[Sangetsu]

Originally Posted by MMM

Let's get the facts straight.

What is being proposed is an Islamic community center that would be built in an old Burlington Coat Factory a couple blocks from where the World Trade Center used to stand.

The Constitution answers the question for us. Of course this should be allowed. The fact that the question would even come up shows the intolerance that exists in the US.

A mosque or church requires government approval before being built just like any other kind of building. The government will not allow churches to be built in some places for various reasons, such as zoning regulations and the like. In most places in the country, it would be very hard to build a church in place zoned for retail use (like a Burlington Coat Factory), and permission to build a church or a mosque in such a place would be a rare exception, not something which would be normally approved.

New York City would not be intolerant in saying "no" to building an Islamic community center in a retail area, in this case they are bending over backwards to be tolerant. An Islamic community center, being a religious facility belonging to an organized religion, would of course be tax exempt, and allowing such a center (or even a Christian church) will greatly reduce the tax revenue generated by the property.

The crux of the argument is that getting permission to build a Christian (or Jewish, or Buddhist) church or large religious center anywhere in Manhattan is next to an impossibility, but building an Islamic community center somehow gets wide approval from everyone from Mayor Bloomberg to President Obama himself. Critics of the community center see this as "special" treatment based upon religious preference, which is also considered patently unconstitutional.

[Atredies]

would it be better to move the wall street stock market to another city?

[StonerPenguin]

I tend to avoid these kinds of conversations as they're almost always doomed to be 'shitstorms'

However, MMM is completely right. It's not "at ground zero" as the news is portraying it. And to the people saying "Why not move it?" -- Do you know there's been 'outrages' in California, Tennessee and Wisconsin about building Mosques there as well? I really don't think location actually matters at all. We should bend over backwards for Muslims -- the intolerance they've received as a whole is totally unfair. America was founded on freedom of religion.

I would also like to say I hate all religion! I think the world would be a much better place without it

[Heru]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

A mosque or church requires government approval before being built just like any other kind of building. The government will not allow churches to be built in some places for various reasons, such as zoning regulations and the like. In most places in the country, it would be very hard to build a church in place zoned for retail use (like a Burlington Coat Factory), and permission to build a church or a mosque in such a place would be a rare exception, not something which would be normally approved.

New York City would not be intolerant in saying "no" to building an Islamic community center in a retail area, in this case they are bending over backwards to be tolerant. An Islamic community center, being a religious facility belonging to an organized religion, would of course be tax exempt, and allowing such a center (or even a Christian church) will greatly reduce the tax revenue generated by the property.

The crux of the argument is that getting permission to build a Christian (or Jewish, or Buddhist) church or large religious center anywhere in Manhattan is next to an impossibility, but building an Islamic community center somehow gets wide approval from everyone from Mayor Bloomberg to President Obama himself. Critics of the community center see this as "special" treatment based upon religious preference, which is also considered patently unconstitutional.

I live in nyc. When I'm walking which I used to do very often. I would pass a number of churches. Several churches are in very high traffic areas. There is one on Broadway about 1 block south of WTC and another further down. There is a temple near chambers which is about 3 blocks or less from WTC in a retail area with many stores and a few resturants on west broadway.

The reason people are saying no to this is not because of zoning, or because it's a religious building in a retail area (there are a number of those) it's because it's Islam and it's near WTC. That's it. There is no other reason. I don't see heated debates saying "oh well the zoning and you know, century 21 is right there! we can't have that!" No, it's more like "it's insulting, they killed our family" Theses are the type of statements that shouldn't be made and all the more the reason why it should be built. Whilst, yes the government has to step in for it to be built, that is, in a way irrelevant. You can't quite build something out of nowhere and not expect the government to get involved. It is intolerant when the reasons given are not ones of zoning or retail but ones of hate and intolerance.

MMM = Completely right.

[edelweiss]

I don't care who builds what on available ground. Full space is always better than empty space - though I prefer buildings that make tax revenue. (I also think religious buildings should not be exempt from paying these taxes) Whoever has the money to build and is able to get the permit should be allowed to have their space no matter what. Honestly this is a non-issue for me.

[Ronin4hire]

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

The crux of the argument is that getting permission to build a Christian (or Jewish, or Buddhist) church or large religious center anywhere in Manhattan is next to an impossibility, but building an Islamic community center somehow gets wide approval from everyone from Mayor Bloomberg to President Obama himself. Critics of the community center see this as "special" treatment based upon religious preference, which is also considered patently unconstitutional.

Do you have the facts or are you just talking sh...?

You said its difficult but is it impossible to get approval?

Someone said earlier that there were churches and synagogues in Manhattan too... so perhaps the truth is that the Christians and the Jews just didnt apply or their proposals didnt meet a certain standard.

Dont get me wrong... Im no fan of religion either, but Im even more opposed to discrimination.

Furthermore... I havent seen that argument as a main talking point. Most of the republican talking points centre on the insensitivity of it.

The guy who proposed the Islamic centre however, is supposedly a well renowned moderate who advocates peace and tolerance so I cant think of anything MORE appropriate to build in and around ground zero.

[MMM]

Originally Posted by willgoestocollege

Of course Muslim Americans are allowed to have Islamic centers and mosques in the US just like any other religion but why near Ground Zero and the grand opening on the 9th of September next year (10 years since 9/11)? I hope this Islamic community center teaches the good side of Islam not the extremism. Here in the UK we have a tv show called Dispatches and went undercover in the biggest mosque in the Britain. It has a shop that sells books and DVDs which preach to hate Jews, gays and non-muslims.

It isn't being placed near Ground Zero for any other reason than that former coat shop is available and for sale. It is two blocks from Ground Zero.

There is no reason to think they are planning to teach extremist views.

Originally Posted by manganimefan227

I think it's a symbolically good idea! A place where the real religion is taught,

We gotta trust them again at some point . . .

You lost trust in them?

Originally Posted by Sangetsu

A mosque or church requires government approval before being built just like any other kind of building. The government will not allow churches to be built in some places for various reasons, such as zoning regulations and the like. In most places in the country, it would be very hard to build a church in place zoned for retail use (like a Burlington Coat Factory), and permission to build a church or a mosque in such a place would be a rare exception, not something which would be normally approved.

New York City would not be intolerant in saying "no" to building an Islamic community center in a retail area, in this case they are bending over backwards to be tolerant. An Islamic community center, being a religious facility belonging to an organized religion, would of course be tax exempt, and allowing such a center (or even a Christian church) will greatly reduce the tax revenue generated by the property.

The crux of the argument is that getting permission to build a Christian (or Jewish, or Buddhist) church or large religious center anywhere in Manhattan is next to an impossibility, but building an Islamic community center somehow gets wide approval from everyone from Mayor Bloomberg to President Obama himself. Critics of the community center see this as "special" treatment based upon religious preference, which is also considered patently unconstitutional.

What they are proposing is a Islamic community center, and it's zoning was approved unanimously by the governing committee in New York City.

[Jaydelart]

I like to look at things from numerous perspectives. In this case, despite my attempts to, I can't get over the fact that it seems like a spit in the face.

Is it not possible to choose a location that isn't possibly going to offend a lot of people.

[manganimefan227]

Originally Posted by MMM

It isn't being placed near Ground Zero for any other reason than that former coat shop is available and for sale. It is two blocks from Ground Zero.

There is no reason to think they are planning to teach extremist views.



You lost trust in them?




What they are proposing is a Islamic community center, and it's zoning was approved unanimously by the governing committee in New York City.

No, 9/11 was done by individuals with bad interpretation of their teachings, not a religion's principals

[MMM]

Originally Posted by Jaydelart

I like to look at things from numerous perspectives. In this case, despite my attempts to, I can't get over the fact that it seems like a spit in the face.

Is it not possible to choose a location that isn't possibly going to offend a lot of people.

So those that believe in the Islamic faith (23% of the world population) can't build a Community Center in New York City, one of the most culturally diverse cities in the world and the home of the UN?

THAT is insanity.